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Author Topic: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down  (Read 8175 times)

jasonp82

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Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« on: December 03, 2016, 04:08:46 PM »
Hi everyone,

Like a couple of others, I am looking into the 900 Global Black Ops versus the Special Ops.  I became an AMF guy in about 2006 after a bowler I thought highly of was throwing all AMF.  I then bought the Velocity, and fell in love with it.  I shot my high game of 299 with it.  Unfortunately, it cracked, and I had to send it to AMF to get another one only to have that one crack as well.  So I no longer have the ball as a memory. 

I bought the Max Velocity and Terminal Velocity as well but none were quite like the original.  I took a few years off bowling and started again during the summer.  I hadn’t purchased a new ball in about ten years and was led to two Brunswick balls – the Fanatic and Fanatic BTU.  I ended up buying both and I do like them but I’m still curious about the AMF/900 Global side and would like to have one of those as well. 

Someone on the forums recommended the Black Ops given I liked the Velocity.  I was now wondering about pin up versus pin down.  I’ve googled this dozens of times.  When I bought both the Fanatic and Fanatic BTU, the stronger of the two (regular Fanatic) was drilled pin up, and the BTU was pin down.  I was basically told pin up makes the ball start grabbing onto the line quicker, which makes it hook faster.  I was told with pin down, it doesn’t move a whole lot on the way down but on the backend, it moves and hits hard. 

At first, I liked the BTU – my first game was a 279.  Now I’m finding the regular Fanatic to be the better ball of a sudden.  The Fanatic might curve a tad bit more than I’d like, as I’ve left a lot of 7-10 splits with it after NEVER leaving any before.

About the only thing I can go by as far as hook-ability is bowlingball.com’s perfect scale, which I hear mixed reviews about.  It states the Black Ops is a 186.8 versus the Special Ops, which is 182.3.  The Fanatic is 192.1, so based on their scale, either would hook less.  I am a down and in, second arrow kind of guy.  I do not put a lot of spin or revs on the ball and throw somewhere between 12.5 and 14.5 MPH on my first ball.

I am now stumped on the pin up versus pin down thing.  When looking at my balls of the past, I have several of each.  What's best for a down and in guy?
Jason

 

lbss831

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2016, 07:31:34 PM »
I have two Absolute Nirvana pin up and pin down, the pin down is early and smoother off the spot and the pin up has more length and faster response to friction, both are strong but they will give you different looks at the breakpoint, I normally pull out my pin down when lanes are tight when pin up starts leaving corners

Bowlaholic

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2016, 07:59:06 PM »
Right On! +1

billdozer

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2016, 09:09:12 PM »
I got a guy who always has a BREAK line core In the bag.    He feels pin down is plenty good and pin up is too flippy off the spot. Needless to say where ever he is bowling it seems the pin down gets more play.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 09:58:20 AM »
Ok,

OG Break and Black Eagle (and probably the Spec Ops) were 55*5*65 (pin below bridge) and I usually liked the surface at 4k at minimum, 1k at max. I've also had a War Eagle and S75, both 65*4.5*35, extra hole on pap for the War Eagle. The WE worked well if I kept the breakpoint in front of me, and the s75 was great at opening up my angles. I found that I hate extra holes on my Break equipment. For me, it stands up early and doesn't do as much as I would like. If I am looking for a slower motion off the spot, I'd rather adjust surface.

jasonp82

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2016, 02:47:09 PM »
I've always thought about doing that to see what the difference was but putting out the money for the double ball is always what keeps me from doing it.  Haha.  So it sounds like I may have been told the opposite of what you are saying.  I guess there really isn't a "better" choice for a down and in person? 
------------------------------
I have two Absolute Nirvana pin up and pin down, the pin down is early and smoother off the spot and the pin up has more length and faster response to friction, both are strong but they will give you different looks at the breakpoint

Mrpu

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 10:27:08 AM »
There is definitely a difference between pin up and pin down drilling.  Each person is partial to one or the other.  Personally I'm a pin down person usually 4.5 -5 inches from pap.  All the Eagles, Breaks and Ops are great IMO.  Good luck with your search.

WOWZERS

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 10:55:07 AM »
I actually drill a pin up and a pin down ball of every ball I drill...same surface on each ball. On the pin up, cg is always in the palm so there is no extra hole. On the pin down, I swing the cg into the thumb quadrant and add an extra hole 6 inches from the pin through the cg in the thumb quadrant to help move the bowtie down (I track high).

I see plenty of difference between the 2 drills especially on normal THS. Further, because of the amount of friction in my area on THS at every bowling center, I usually leave my pin down stuff at home and only take my pin ups. Too much friction pushed me too deep too early and then has a tendency to trap me. Too deep and I start pinging corners...move back into the track and the ball burns and hits like a wet pancake. The pin up stuff allows me to stay in the track longer and the ever so little difference in stored energy compared to the pin down ball helps me trip some corners that I would not with the pin down...

I also normally only drill symmetric cored bowling balls as an FYI

Your results will vary based on your speed, style, etc. If you have higher speed with little tilt, the pin down may be your friend even on THS with an extra hole helping to reshape the core and give you some extra angle that you would not have without an extra hole.


Rightycomplex

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 04:56:02 AM »
The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.
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northface28

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2016, 02:05:59 PM »
The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.

I simply disagree with this and will until the day I die. I have pin down balls (under bridge) that flare around the whole ball, conversely, I have pin up balls, over bridge, that flare like non-dynamic urethane.
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2handedrook12

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2016, 09:04:41 PM »
The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.

I simply disagree with this and will until the day I die. I have pin down balls (under bridge) that flare around the whole ball, conversely, I have pin up balls, over bridge, that flare like non-dynamic urethane.
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northface28

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 10:03:54 PM »
4 1/2 straight across.
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vkowalski1970

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 10:31:16 PM »
Pin to pap will always dictate flare, VAL angle dictates second phase response. I have had multiple long pin to pap balls drilled "pin down" that are way longer than Short pin to pap balls drilled "pin up".

Pin to pap distance and surface will make much more difference than VAL angle
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 06:03:53 AM »
I have drilled several of these.. from the purple eagles, to black eagles, to now the spec ops.  For me, all have been in the 4.5 to 5.5 pin to PAP distances.  At 4.5", flare rings cover nearly the entire ball, as I go further away towards 5.5", flare decreases.  My PAP is 5 3/8" over, so this puts the pin somewhere between the ring and the bridge.  It seems pin up goes really long for me (have only used this with higher drill angles - keeping me near thumb area) - giving this layout a somewhat limited use on fresh league shot. 

My favorite layout for this ball has been pin under ring with a small drill angle (about a 40X4.5X60).  This keeps my angles closed and smooths out the backend...Worked well on my fresh league shots.

Overall, this a great ball and rolls really well once you find the correct lane condition match up.
Good luck!
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Impending Doom

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Re: Black Ops Pin Up Or Down
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2016, 09:15:52 AM »
I agree. The pin downs I've drilled I've liked much more than the pin ups.

Now I need to order another Black Ops and a Special Ops.