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Author Topic: BTU Compairson ?  (Read 6817 times)

six pack

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BTU Compairson ?
« on: November 27, 2016, 08:55:39 PM »
I know,I know, hard to do sometimes but it would help.I have kinda a hard time getting a feel on this ball with the reviews and posts. It's either strong or not. I have a blue Hammer remake with a 4" pin to pap and used to have a tag with about the same layout. The Hammer is a little to smooth and the Tag was to strong.
any other ball like the BTU? I would like to hear it.
The harder I try the harder they fall

 

Gunso

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2016, 02:28:50 AM »
My take on the Btu is that is way more angular then I had hoped for (I still like it a lot, I just bought it for a different purpose)

It's quite a bit earlier than most of the weak reactives but if I were you I'd try the tag at 1000 or even 500 and you might get a similiar reaction on it

charlest

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2016, 05:39:04 AM »
In one league/house, I use an Outcast on what I think of as a medium-light pattern. In practice sessions, my BTU hooks about 1-2 boards more than the Outcast, with a similar arcing breakpoint shape.

There are 2 major differences in drilling and in surface between the 2 balls.
Outcast: pin in middle finger (5.5" pin-PAP, ~55 degree VAL angle0, 4000 grit with medium gloss polish.
BTU: pin over ring finger (4.5" pin-PAP, ~35 degree VAL angle), 2500 grit dull.
This drilling, for me, is one of my strongest and most angular; I did it because I was afraid the stock BTU was too even, too urethane-like. It is much stronger than my Blue Hammer, drilled similarly, but not identically. The BTU also handles much more oil than the Blue Hammer,, which is a true very dry lanes ball for me. There are probably 2 balls that will fit between the Blue Hammer and the BTU, again, for me.

Even though I took the BTU from the stock 1500 grit to 2500 grit and I used my flippiest drilling on it, it is still an even arcing ball. No other ball in my possession (other than plastic) gets such easy length with such a rough surface. I mean, I had to sand the Outcast to 4000 grit and apply a good coat of polish to get this much length from the 2500 grit dull BTU.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2016, 05:42:38 AM »
I don't think you can accurately compare urethane to reactive resin because the urethane, by nature, is a much slower response to friction.  Remember that every ball needs to find adequate friction before it can change direction. 

Perhaps if you got a much weaker reactive ball with a stable core, then drilled it pin down and kept it dull you'd have something in between.  My Rhino drilled Rico is pretty smooth for that type of reaction.  The nice thing is that the Rhino is very affordable.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 05:46:32 AM by notclay »

Gene J Kanak

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2016, 03:13:17 PM »
My BTU is still something of a mystery to me. Granted, I don't have many games on it yet. I've been having a lot of success with urethane (A new Black Hammer and a Natural Pearl) on our house shot. With that in mind, I figured the BTU might give me just a little more forgiveness. Sadly, that hasn't been the case for me thus far. It's cleaner up front than the urethane balls, but it won't pick up unless it hits a lot of friction. Once it finds that friction, it bounces off of it a lot harder/shaper than the true urethane balls I have. I tried taking the surface down to 1000 in an attempt to make it pick up a bit sooner and blend out the reaction, but that didn't really seem to do the trick yet. Long story short, I haven't really found the magic that many others have with this ball, at least not yet. Now, maybe I'm just using it at the wrong times or in the wrong areas on the lane. For now though, my true urethane has been a lot more predictable and forgiving than the BTU.

six pack

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2016, 09:13:51 PM »
Thank You everyone,you all have been very helpful! I like the idea of the rico rhino,perhaps I'll try that.
The harder I try the harder they fall

BackToBasics

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2016, 07:52:20 AM »
My BTU is still something of a mystery to me. Granted, I don't have many games on it yet. I've been having a lot of success with urethane (A new Black Hammer and a Natural Pearl) on our house shot. With that in mind, I figured the BTU might give me just a little more forgiveness. Sadly, that hasn't been the case for me thus far. It's cleaner up front than the urethane balls, but it won't pick up unless it hits a lot of friction. Once it finds that friction, it bounces off of it a lot harder/shaper than the true urethane balls I have. I tried taking the surface down to 1000 in an attempt to make it pick up a bit sooner and blend out the reaction, but that didn't really seem to do the trick yet. Long story short, I haven't really found the magic that many others have with this ball, at least not yet. Now, maybe I'm just using it at the wrong times or in the wrong areas on the lane. For now though, my true urethane has been a lot more predictable and forgiving than the BTU.

This has been the experience of several in this area.  The BTU is still a weak resin and won't fit the reaction when true urethane is needed. They've had more success with Black and Purple Hammers (the Purple is REALLY good)

Gene J Kanak

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2016, 08:13:43 AM »
See, and I saw more of the same last night. I adjusted the surface to around 600 grit (green scotchbrite) in an attempt to slow the ball down and smooth it out. Early on, I actually liked what I saw. The ball picked up sooner, and the backend, while still stronger than urethane, was much smoother than it had been. Sadly, that only lasted for a handful of shots before the ball seemed to weaken shot by shot. I'm guessing the lack of flare was causing the ball to lose friction with each successive trip down the lane. Long story short, I'm just not finding any predictability with this ball so far, and it's bugging me. I know a lot of people are reporting tremendous success with this ball, so I've either got the wrong drilling on it, the coverstock prep is off, or I'm using it at the wrong times. Whatever the case, it's been a frustrating experience thus far.

JazlarVonSteich

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2016, 12:18:18 PM »
BTU was not nearly what I expected. I experienced much what Gene and others have posted. It is not "Better Than Urethane" and it filled no hole in my line up. I ended up having it plugged and it is going to my son. Black and Purple Hammers are way better, as was the Rebel Tank when I was throwing 15. I'm sure other manufacturers' urethanes are much better as well. I understand what they were trying to accomplish, but they did not succeed.

Gene J Kanak

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2016, 12:36:36 PM »
I'm not throwing in the towel just yet, Jazlar. I think that there is potential for that ball; I just need to figure out how I'm going to tap into it.

charlest

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2016, 01:01:11 PM »
See, and I saw more of the same last night. I adjusted the surface to around 600 grit (green scotchbrite) in an attempt to slow the ball down and smooth it out. Early on, I actually liked what I saw. The ball picked up sooner, and the backend, while still stronger than urethane, was much smoother than it had been. Sadly, that only lasted for a handful of shots before the ball seemed to weaken shot by shot. I'm guessing the lack of flare was causing the ball to lose friction with each successive trip down the lane. Long story short, I'm just not finding any predictability with this ball so far, and it's bugging me. I know a lot of people are reporting tremendous success with this ball, so I've either got the wrong drilling on it, the coverstock prep is off, or I'm using it at the wrong times. Whatever the case, it's been a frustrating experience thus far.

Gene,

Just an FYI: Scotch-Brite uses CAMI (American) grading. Abralon, Siaair and most sandpaper currently uses FEPA (European)  grading system.
So, your 600 grit from using the green SB pad is actually about 1200 grit suing the FEPA system. Almost all talk about sanding bowling balls is in terms of the FEPA grit levels.

I drilled mine pretty strong because of the low RG differential and smooth "advertised" backend. I'm pretty sure my strong drill has increased the total differential and my ball is fairly consistent.

Also if you're speed dominant, that could hamper the overall intended performance of the BTU.

I've never heard this phrase or situation before,
" I'm guessing the lack of flare was causing the ball to lose friction with each successive trip down the lane."
Could explain it in further detail?
I don't understand how lack of flare could cause the ball weaken more with use. I understand how use can change the surface and that can cause a weakened reaction. I understand how oil absorption can cause a ball to weaken.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Gene J Kanak

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2016, 01:24:00 PM »
Thanks for the input on the grit ratings, Charlest. I know that you're our resident expert on that, so at least that tells me that I can go with 500 or 1000 abralon to see if that changes my look.

As for the comment on flare, what I've noticed from the BTU is that I don't get much flare at all. My thought was that if the ball really isn't flaring, the ball isn't rolling over fresh coverstock with each revolution, which, I would think, would cause less friction and decreased reaction. Granted, even if I'm correct in that element, I'm still probably wrong because I wipe the ball off after each shot, so I should at least be getting fresh traction on each shot.

I guess I'm grasping at straws here because I really, really like the reaction I'm getting from some of my other stuff, so I'm just not figuring out how to match up to this BTU!  >:(

charlest

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2016, 04:43:28 PM »
Thanks for the input on the grit ratings, Charlest. I know that you're our resident expert on that, so at least that tells me that I can go with 500 or 1000 abralon to see if that changes my look.

As for the comment on flare, what I've noticed from the BTU is that I don't get much flare at all. My thought was that if the ball really isn't flaring, the ball isn't rolling over fresh coverstock with each revolution, which, I would think, would cause less friction and decreased reaction.

Well, a pin-PAP distance would decrease the amount of flare from a stronger pin-PAP distance, but the amount of hook should not decrease with each toss of the ball.

I used about 4.5" pin-PAP and mine flares about 2" +/-.

Quote
Granted, even if I'm correct in that element, I'm still probably wrong because I wipe the ball off after each shot, so I should at least be getting fresh traction on each shot.

I was going to ask that. Yes, you should be getting some traction, until you hit carrydown or more oil than the shell/surface can handle.

Last night, my normal medium-light oil was light and mine was hooking so much I couldn't control it or use it.


Quote
I guess I'm grasping at straws here because I really, really like the reaction I'm getting from some of my other stuff, so I'm just not figuring out how to match up to this BTU!  >:(

My only suggestions, at this point are
one, are you speed dominant? (or matched)?
two, you could redrill it with a stronger pin-PAP, maybe around 3.5-4" and with a more moderate VAL to reduce any tendency to sharpen the breakpoint.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

giddyupddp

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2016, 02:50:48 PM »
Its a weak reactive ball, nothing like Urethane. Tried out of box and it was stronger than expected and now use it polished on dry lanes and it does gets good length with a fairly strong move. I like it but its not much different than other dry lane reactive balls I have tried such as the Motiv Ascent Pearl or Columbia Deep Freeze. House I bowl at just uses such cheap oil it breaks down so fast and wanted a reaction like urethane but carries like reactive.....

Gene J Kanak

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Re: BTU Compairson ?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2016, 10:09:17 AM »
Okay, so to update, I actually managed a decent set and some predictability with my BTU after putting it through another surface change, this one to 500 abralon. The shot I played was pretty much right up the track while making sure not to leak it right to the extreme dry. When it leaked right, it bounced back really hard. When I kept it up the lane, it reacted very well throughout.

Now, this was only one decent set (650s) after a lot of frustration prior. Still, it was encouraging as I had predictability, something that I was sorely lacking with this ball up until now. To be fair, I also need to get this thing onto the lanes at some different centers and on some different patterns so that I can what else it has to offer. In the meantime, at least I'm finding something of a silver lining.

At this point, the Better Than Urethane moniker is certainly true in terms of the way that the ball sees the front of the lane. It's super clean up front, which means you don't get that early read that urethane usually makes. Where I'm not finding it better than urethane is in the move down the lane. For me, a no-thumb bowler, this ball is still very strong off the spot when it hits friction. That would be fine if I could get it to consistently give me bounce, but, up to now, it hasn't. Still, there is more testing to be done, and I intend to do it.