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Author Topic: Can you take the MB out of play? (Read 774 times)

Juggernaut

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Can you take the MB out of play?
on: September 12, 2017, 03:01:08 PM
 Plain and simple.

 I tend to like symmetrics, and just wondered if there was a way to take the asymmetry to the point of inconsequence.

 Just curious, as I have a MoRich Mojave I was thinking about getting plugged and re drilled.

DP3

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 06:21:57 PM
Drill your thumb into the MB and use pin distance to dictate how much flare you want.

SVstar34

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 06:30:15 PM
Drill your thumb into the MB and use pin distance to dictate how much flare you want.

Drilling into the mass bias is going to increase the asymmetry as the int. Diff increases when you do that
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charlest

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 07:41:16 PM
Technically, according to the great and powerful Mo, any mass bias below .010" (I believe) can be ignored and treated like a symmetric core. (FYI He used to say any MB below .008" can be ignored.)

When I looked up the Mojave, it has/had a PSA/MB strength of .008".
http://123bowl.com/bowling-balls/morich/mojave/
So, theoretically the MB can be ignored. (Personally, I'm not sure I believe that; but I take it all with a grain of salt.)

I am not up on my Drill and VAL angles, but it used to be that a Drill angle for the average PAP (4.5" - 5" over) of 45-55 degrees was fairly "in-between" or neutral.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 09:12:49 PM
Technically, according to the great and powerful Mo, any mass bias below .010" (I believe) can be ignored and treated like a symmetric core. (FYI He used to say any MB below .008" can be ignored.)

When I looked up the Mojave, it has/had a PSA/MB strength of .008".
http://123bowl.com/bowling-balls/morich/mojave/
So, theoretically the MB can be ignored. (Personally, I'm not sure I believe that; but I take it all with a grain of salt.)

I am not up on my Drill and VAL angles, but it used to be that a Drill angle for the average PAP (4.5" - 5" over) of 45-55 degrees was fairly "in-between" or neutral.


 Not quite sure I buy that entirely either. The Mojave is drilled with the MB in the track now, and it is a hook/stop, unforgiving piece of junk right now.

 It makes one move, and it is the same move no matter what. If you can line up outside ten, and get it to hook set in exactly the same place every time, you can score. Otherwise, your just stuck, trying to play with a ball that won't let you really do anything else.

 The cover on the ball has minimal games on it, and I would like to get some use out of it.

charlest

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 09:32:23 AM
Technically, according to the great and powerful Mo, any mass bias below .010" (I believe) can be ignored and treated like a symmetric core. (FYI He used to say any MB below .008" can be ignored.)

When I looked up the Mojave, it has/had a PSA/MB strength of .008".
http://123bowl.com/bowling-balls/morich/mojave/
So, theoretically the MB can be ignored. (Personally, I'm not sure I believe that; but I take it all with a grain of salt.)

I am not up on my Drill and VAL angles, but it used to be that a Drill angle for the average PAP (4.5" - 5" over) of 45-55 degrees was fairly "in-between" or neutral.


 Not quite sure I buy that entirely either. The Mojave is drilled with the MB in the track now, and it is a hook/stop, unforgiving piece of junk right now.

 It makes one move, and it is the same move no matter what. If you can line up outside ten, and get it to hook set in exactly the same place every time, you can score. Otherwise, your just stuck, trying to play with a ball that won't let you really do anything else.

 The cover on the ball has minimal games on it, and I would like to get some use out of it.

I'd suggest placing the MB about 1" - 1.5" to the right of the thumb hole. That has always been a somewhat neutral position for me (similar righty, similar PAP). It isn't early, like it would be if it were close to the PAP & it isn't super strong (relative to the ball's strength) as if it were in the thumb hole. It will allow any backend strength that the ball has to be there - the Mojave was mild and not flippy, if I recall.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Technically, according to the great and powerful Mo, any mass bias below .010" (I believe) can be ignored and treated like a symmetric core. (FYI He used to say any MB below .008" can be ignored.)

When I looked up the Mojave, it has/had a PSA/MB strength of .008".
http://123bowl.com/bowling-balls/morich/mojave/
So, theoretically the MB can be ignored. (Personally, I'm not sure I believe that; but I take it all with a grain of salt.)

I am not up on my Drill and VAL angles, but it used to be that a Drill angle for the average PAP (4.5" - 5" over) of 45-55 degrees was fairly "in-between" or neutral.


 Not quite sure I buy that entirely either. The Mojave is drilled with the MB in the track now, and it is a hook/stop, unforgiving piece of junk right now.

 It makes one move, and it is the same move no matter what. If you can line up outside ten, and get it to hook set in exactly the same place every time, you can score. Otherwise, your just stuck, trying to play with a ball that won't let you really do anything else.

 The cover on the ball has minimal games on it, and I would like to get some use out of it.

What's the pin distance from pap?
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Juggernaut

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 09:56:47 AM
Technically, according to the great and powerful Mo, any mass bias below .010" (I believe) can be ignored and treated like a symmetric core. (FYI He used to say any MB below .008" can be ignored.)

When I looked up the Mojave, it has/had a PSA/MB strength of .008".
http://123bowl.com/bowling-balls/morich/mojave/
So, theoretically the MB can be ignored. (Personally, I'm not sure I believe that; but I take it all with a grain of salt.)

I am not up on my Drill and VAL angles, but it used to be that a Drill angle for the average PAP (4.5" - 5" over) of 45-55 degrees was fairly "in-between" or neutral.


 Not quite sure I buy that entirely either. The Mojave is drilled with the MB in the track now, and it is a hook/stop, unforgiving piece of junk right now.

 It makes one move, and it is the same move no matter what. If you can line up outside ten, and get it to hook set in exactly the same place every time, you can score. Otherwise, your just stuck, trying to play with a ball that won't let you really do anything else.

 The cover on the ball has minimal games on it, and I would like to get some use out of it.

What's the pin distance from pap?

 I forget.  It's either 2in or 2 1/2in.  Think it's 2 1/2 for me.

Luke Morningwood

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 10:59:53 AM
This link is off the Storm site, and it is not light reading, but it is pretty good at explaining what you are asking about, and a bit more. What you are calling the MB (mass bias) they refer to as PSA (preferred spin axis)

http://news.stormbowling.com/2017/06/11/psa-to-pap-distance/

Impending Doom

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
2.5 inch pin to pap with the MB in the track and the ball.is 2.62 0.032? No wonder you're limited. Not enough surface or flare to move in, and too much surface when you play straighter. I'd plug it, go 80*5*70 on it and adjust surface.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Can you take the MB out of play?
Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 05:01:01 PM
I have had a few different balls with 2" pin to pap layouts including a Slingshot which uses the same pk17 cover as the Mojave.  Its a great layout for getting right and playing straighter, especially if the backends are flying.  Once you start moving in and trying to open up the carry goes away and flat 10s and even 7s (for a right-hander)  are very common.
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