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Author Topic: Pin Down drilling for High Track player  (Read 3377 times)

titletowncards

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Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« on: January 29, 2011, 01:57:11 AM »
Hi all,
 
I'm a high track player, I've wanted to try some Pin Down drillings to get the ball moving earlier and wondering if anyone out there has had any success in doing this.  I've never been able to, but maybe a certain core/diff. would be better than others. If you have any drilling angles that have worked let me know! 
 
Thanks!


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JustRico

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 10:15:52 AM »
What is your PAP and what issues do you have with pin downs?

If you do not have success for whatever reason you can still go pin up and add a weight hole down the VAL...larger weight holes will get the ball started sooner.


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titletowncards

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 04:46:25 PM »
Asked my Pro-Shop guy, this is what he wrote from memory.
5 3/8" over by 5/8" up.  He was going to check my drill sheet to make sure.
 
I have issues with pin downs with the track flare going over either my Thumb hole and sometimes my Finger holes, especially in the early part of the lanes, the first few track lines.
 
I've thought about a weight hole down the VAL and I should have put that in my question because I thought that might work to get the ball rolling sooner.  Is that what they refer to as a P2, P3, P1 hole?
JustRico wrote on 1/29/2011 11:15 AM:
What is your PAP and what issues do you have with pin downs?

If you do not have success for whatever reason you can still go pin up and add a weight hole down the VAL...larger weight holes will get the ball started sooner.


The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.


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sunsetlefty

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 06:15:38 PM »
Listen to JustRico's advice.

 

When, as a high tracker, you flare over the middle finger or thumbhole with low pin layouts, then don't do it!

 

JR's advice is correct.......


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Cobalt Bomb

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 07:18:34 PM »
What pin to pap distances are you trying pin down? If the axis coordinates are correct, there should be at least some distances and balls that should work for you. I can understand though not wanting to spend money for a new ball as an experiment and have it clip the holes. A low hole would help move the flare away from the fingers.

Also, Just Rico is right as usual, his suggestion would work as well.

 


 
Edited by Cobalt Bomb on 1/29/2011 at 8:21 PM

JustRico

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 08:16:39 PM »
You have 2 different scenarios working here....

If you track over the thumbhole, your vertical is more than likely higher. You are rotating the ball with your thumb still in it. I would check your lateral pitch, assuming the span is correct and possibly go farther away from your palm. This should help you get the track off your thumbhole.

If you are tracking over the middle, then either move the pin up from grip center or just plain lay it out above the grip.

 


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Co-author of Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) available NOW!
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titletowncards

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 10:36:29 AM »
Thanks for all the advice so far, my thumb comes out pretty quick, so I use a lot of finger lift. Pitches and spans are perfect, love them.
Would like to try a P3 or P2 hole in an older ball and see what happens.  That seems to be the what most people are thinking would work.
 
 


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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 09:19:58 AM »
My PAP is 5 3/4 right and 3/4 up.  Any pin down drilling for me that is more than 5 1/2" from pap or has more than a 70* VAL drilling thumps for me.


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TWOHAND834

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2011, 09:47:39 AM »
Rico,

Let me ask this as I have never seen this before.  Bowlers seem to think pin down means the pin has to be somewhere in the grip.  What if you had a bowler with a 5 1/2 axis point and you took the pin, put in under the fingers but shifted it outside the grip a inch or or making it a 4 1/2 pin to PAP and stack the cg under it?  Obviously this diagram doesnt have the weight hole, which will be needed I am sure.  Have it look like this:  o = pin, * = cg

 

O  O

           o

            *

   O

 

Would something like this still cause some thumping?



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titletowncards

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 10:34:21 AM »
That's a good question, let's see what he says.
 



TWOHAND834 wrote on 1/31/2011 10:47 AM:
Rico,


Let me ask this as I have never seen this before.  Bowlers seem to think pin down means the pin has to be somewhere in the grip.  What if you had a bowler with a 5 1/2 axis point and you took the pin, put in under the fingers but shifted it outside the grip a inch or or making it a 4 1/2 pin to PAP and stack the cg under it?  Obviously this diagram doesnt have the weight hole, which will be needed I am sure.  Have it look like this:  o = pin, * = cg


 


O  O


           o


            *


   O


 


Would something like this still cause some thumping?



Peace doesnt always have to be silent.


titletowncards
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onlybowling

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2011, 05:35:41 AM »
One more question from a high tracker - - -

 

my favorite Pin position is 1 inch over bridge - with C.G. on or just Rt of grip center - no extra hole .  I try to buy balls that have a 4 inch pin and no more than 3 oz top.

 

Question is this - for 2 to 3 inch pin balls - Will drilling the Pin out  in the midddle finger be an option to give me the same ball reaction as Pin over bridge??  Or should I put the pin where I like it and have the finger holes drilled deep?

 

Thanks for taking the time to help me understand and decide.

 

 


OnlyBowling

JustRico

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2011, 06:00:08 AM »
When looking at layouts, you can look at them 2 ways....one in regards to the gripping holes or one without. When you lay out a ball, the gripping holes have to be taken into consideration due to the track or flare rings tracking over the gripping holes, either the finger holes or thumb hole. Layouts are used to manage track flare as far as reaction and not hitting holes.

Pin down can be described or looked at 2 ways.....one in regards to the gripping holes or in relationship to the vertical axis coordinate.

If you have a bowler who is 5 1/2" over laterally....but is 1/2" up vertically, then a pin down would be below a line that would be drawn from the PAP to the NAP through the center of the grip. The negative axis point is 13 1/2" from the positive axis point through the center of the grip.

We think pin down in regards to the gripping holes due to where the gripping holes are in relationship to the core and mass removed. It is more relative for those that track high in catching either the thumb hole or middle finger.

To figure out if the track will catch the gripping holes, draw a line from the PAP through the pin to where it will dissect the track. This should give you a relative point of reference as far as where the bow tie will be and where the track will or will not catch the gripping holes.

If you drill a pin below the gripping holes and the the track catches the middle finger, a weight hole down the VAL should raise the bow tie thus moving the track away from the grip as well as the middle finger.

This also can be the case if the track is flaring over the edge of the thumb hole in the front part of the lane. A weight hole down as well as a larger sized weight hole can increase flare helping the ball to migrate or flare quicker moving it off the thumb hole.

 

Hope this explains as well as answers your questions....


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Co-author of Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) available NOW!
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onlybowling

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2011, 06:56:05 AM »
Hi Rick - Thank you for taking the time to re-state and clarify my options.

 

 


OnlyBowling

JustRico

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2011, 07:48:39 AM »
Onlybowling

 

Sorry I forgot your question....drilling the pin out is always an option. It generally does not alter the overall reaction. You need to make sure it does not void the manufacturers warranty. As well as use a sharp drill bit.


The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Co-author of Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) available NOW!
Be prepared for the next (r)EVOLUTION...(r)eVolve the NEXT phase of BOWLING...CREATING BETTER BOWLERS BY CREATING SMARTER BOWLERS...
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pin-smasher

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Re: Pin Down drilling for High Track player
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 08:45:12 PM »
a layout that i really like is 60 X 4.5 X 70 which puts the pin just below the ring finger.