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Author Topic: This drilling weighthole over fingers?  (Read 4577 times)

LuckyLefty

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This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« on: June 22, 2016, 10:23:53 AM »
Hey,

Have you ever seen this or seen it recommended?

Note this video at the 1:09 mark.  Pin and weighthole up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWlbN8CGv8

Really both drillings.  If you look at the start of the video it looks like a modified Rico...Pin more up.  Do you see the weighthole?  I don't.

Regards,

Luckylefty
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 10:26:54 AM by LuckyLefty »
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bcw1969

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 11:05:37 AM »
My crimson Executioner-- which unfortunately cracked a week or so ago -- it was bought used and  it was a shorter pin - cg distance than I would have liked, and I wanted my proshop guy to plug and redrill it with the pin a certain distance above the fingers like my 1st purple ex is drilled(which was a longer pin/cg dist)-- which put the cg a little bit above the fingers. A large weight hole was needed to make the ball legal , and the weight hole was above the fingers. Other than me I had never seen that before.

Brad

kidlost2000

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 02:34:24 PM »
Seen a few short pin layouts where they went with the pin above the fingers then added a weight hole even or above the fingers to make legal again. I no longer have blueprint software but I believe it didn't do much to help increase the diff. I think but not sure it may have lowered it.

The second layout should have a weight hole judging by the cg location but if it is 6.75" from the pin it will not be easily seen in most pictures. Any ball I have on the Rico layout it is hard to get the weight hole, pin, and all gripping holes in the pic.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Keith Frye

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 02:56:19 PM »
Back in the early years of Bowling This Month magazine, there was a series of articles on layouts.  I don't recall the author's name but he used a degree layout system using a line from the pin through the cg (I don't think there were many asymetrical balls back then).  The cg at 3 o'clock to the pin would be 0 degrees, at 6 o'clock is 90 degrees, 9 o'clock is 180 degrees and 12 o'clock is 270 degrees (for right handers and opposite way around the clock for lefties).  360 degrees is a full circle.

One of the layouts he advocated was 315 degrees.  It called for a short pin ball and the cg actually ends up above and to the right (for righties) of the pin. The weight hole usually ends up above and right of the ring finger (depending on chosen pin to PAP distance).

For those who remember the Columbia Aftershock, I drilled a new one with a standard layout and never liked it.  I eventually plugged it and went with a 315 degree layout, including hole above fingers, and loved it.

kidlost2000

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 04:06:03 PM »
Back in the early years of Bowling This Month magazine, there was a series of articles on layouts.  I don't recall the author's name but he used a degree layout system using a line from the pin through the cg (I don't think there were many asymetrical balls back then).  The cg at 3 o'clock to the pin would be 0 degrees, at 6 o'clock is 90 degrees, 9 o'clock is 180 degrees and 12 o'clock is 270 degrees (for right handers and opposite way around the clock for lefties).  360 degrees is a full circle.

One of the layouts he advocated was 315 degrees.  It called for a short pin ball and the cg actually ends up above and to the right (for righties) of the pin. The weight hole usually ends up above and right of the ring finger (depending on chosen pin to PAP distance).

For those who remember the Columbia Aftershock, I drilled a new one with a standard layout and never liked it.  I eventually plugged it and went with a 315 degree layout, including hole above fingers, and loved it.


Same layout I also heard as the "Wiseman pattern" after Danny Wiseman when he was on staff with Hammer back in the urethane era. It was Mo who came up with the layout as best I can tell who was with Hammer/FAB at that time. It is now mostly widely know as the PBA plastic ball layout. Was popular because of the mostly pancake style low diff cores which typically had short or no pin to cg distance at the time.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Aloarjr810

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 04:21:25 PM »
Back in the early years of Bowling This Month magazine, there was a series of articles on layouts.  I don't recall the author's name but he used a degree layout system using a line from the pin through the cg (I don't think there were many asymetrical balls back then).  The cg at 3 o'clock to the pin would be 0 degrees, at 6 o'clock is 90 degrees, 9 o'clock is 180 degrees and 12 o'clock is 270 degrees (for right handers and opposite way around the clock for lefties).  360 degrees is a full circle.


The person your talking about is Denny Torgerson and his Degree Layout System. His articles were back about 2006, he also had a book.

But I believe your mixing it together with the Clock System which is a different (older than the degree system) system where you use the relation between Pin and CG or Pin and MB, where the Pin is the hour hand and CG/MB is clock center.

The Degree Layout System
http://204.3.134.194/tips/mario/mario_degreelaytoutsystem.html

The Clock Layout System
http://204.3.134.194/tips/mario/mario_clocklayoutsystem.htm

Quote
One of the layouts he advocated was 315 degrees.  It called for a short pin ball and the cg actually ends up above and to the right (for righties) of the pin. The weight hole usually ends up above and right of the ring finger (depending on chosen pin to PAP distance).


The 315 degree layout
http://204.3.134.194/tips/mario/mario_315degreelayout.htm

length and breakpoint strengths of the different degree layouts.



« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 04:26:44 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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Keith Frye

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 07:21:11 AM »
Quote
The person your talking about is Denny Torgerson and his Degree Layout System. His articles were back about 2006, he also had a book.

But I believe your mixing it together with the Clock System which is a different (older than the degree system) system where you use the relation between Pin and CG or Pin and MB, where the Pin is the hour hand and CG/MB is clock center.

Yes, Denny Torgerson is who I was thinking of.  Thank you.  My memory was a little fuzzy of the specifics.  I see that with the degree system, the line from pin to PAP is 0.

Keith Frye

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2016, 07:43:49 AM »
Quote
His articles were back about 2006

Obviously my memory is not always the greatest.  However, I'm sure I read about the 315 degree layout before 2006.  There may have been additional articles around that time but I know I used the layout before my daughter was born in 2000.  The AfterShock was released in '96 so it was probably sometime in the late '90s when I used the layout.

Aloarjr810

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2016, 08:42:05 AM »
Quote
His articles were back about 2006

Obviously my memory is not always the greatest.  However, I'm sure I read about the 315 degree layout before 2006.  There may have been additional articles around that time but I know I used the layout before my daughter was born in 2000.  The AfterShock was released in '96 so it was probably sometime in the late '90s when I used the layout.

There may well be older articles, I'd have to go back and look through my old issues.

As for the 315° layout (aka: the Wiseman drill) or any other degree layout they would have been around before the articles were written. So they may well have been around in the late 90's

Interesting thing to note is the dual angle system is the degree system (the DA drill angle) just with the VAL angle added to it.

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2handedrook12

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2016, 01:03:01 PM »
Quote
His articles were back about 2006

Obviously my memory is not always the greatest.  However, I'm sure I read about the 315 degree layout before 2006.  There may have been additional articles around that time but I know I used the layout before my daughter was born in 2000.  The AfterShock was released in '96 so it was probably sometime in the late '90s when I used the layout.

There may well be older articles, I'd have to go back and look through my old issues.

As for the 315° layout (aka: the Wiseman drill) or any other degree layout they would have been around before the articles were written. So they may well have been around in the late 90's

Interesting thing to note is the dual angle system is the degree system (the DA drill angle) just with the VAL angle added to it.
Does this keep the position the same no matter what and only altering the drill angle? Also wondering if people actually boticed a difference in reaction with this system.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: This drilling weighthole over fingers?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2016, 04:34:20 PM »
Does this keep the position the same no matter what and only altering the drill angle?
Keep the position of what? The Pin?

No, You still had to determine were to place the pin (pin up, pin down etc.). read the link included above it tells you some about it.

Quote
Also wondering if people actually noticed a difference in reaction with this system.

Well yeah , if it didn't change the reaction any they wouldn't have bothered using it.
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