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Author Topic: Was this a valid test?  (Read 6303 times)

lefty50

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Was this a valid test?
« on: December 07, 2016, 04:57:50 PM »
I hate asymmetric bowling balls. I have never had a single one that reacted well for me, but I am rolling the ball much better these days, and decided it was time to once again try to put an asymmetric piece in my bag to get a different look than what I have now. (I'm a lefty by the way, can you tell fomr the name?)...
I recently threw a friend's highly touted new asymmetric release (he's right handed). I will not name the ball, because this question has nothing to do with the ball itself, seriously. Every asymmetric I have ever thrown does exactly the same thing: it lopes down the lane, makes a labored turn, and refuses to drive through the pins. I have also been told that asymmetric balls are picky, and must be drilled correctly. That was in the same conversation where I was guaranteed that using an asymmetric right handed ball would yield a valid assessment, although not perfect.
My PAP is 5x1.5 up. This ball was drilled right handed, ping over ring and MB 1 inch to the right of the thumb.
The ball, predictably, puked and puked badly. It looked EXACTLY like every asym I've ever thrown. The question I need ask is this: either throwing a right-handed asymmetric ball for a left-hander is totally ridiculous and the test is completely invalid, even though it reacted just like every other asymmetric I have ever thrown, or it is true that I should have been able to get a decent read on the ball, which puts us back into the I don't like asymmetric category.
I realize this question is a bit circuitous and I hope it makes appropriate sense, but can I trust this test or not?
Feedback appreciated as always.

 

charlest

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2016, 03:16:16 PM »
Steven, I'm thinking maybe you missed the first part, or perhaps I am misunderstanding. Apologies if that's the case. The drill may be standard for righties, and there may be a lefty equivalent, but when a lefty throws the right hand drill, is that a valid test? I think not, looking for feedback on that question...

While it depends on the drilling, in the 99% case, it will never be a valid test, Steve.
a  minimum, the MB being to the right of the thumb hole for a righty would put it near the track for a lefty. That position reduces the backend significantly. In your  case a lower rev bowler, it might eliminate it altogether, depending on the original PSA/MB strength. The pin, being over the ring finger for a righty, would be over the middle finger for a lefty, would make the pin-PAP around 6"; that usually results in a more end-over-end ball movement at the breakpoint. That is usually good for playing an outside line, but for an asymmetric, it is still a very high flaring drilling. These are just in general. Are these the factors you need, personally??
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lefty50

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2016, 03:54:53 PM »
Correct. I'm quite comfortable concluding it was an invalid test. Now, if I take into consideration that the MB position should reduce backend, then it gets intriguing. But that's a story for another day.

TamerBowling

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2016, 04:26:01 PM »
I'm not totally sure what you are trying to achieve at this point other than debunk for yourself the generalization that "asyms don't work for you".  Maybe just to feel like you aren't limited in selection? 
It's all fine but let me throw in my 2 cents...

1. You should always have a knowledgeable and experienced ball driller who knows your game
2. Yes Asyms are a little more tricky to drill but not so much so that it should be so difficult for an experienced driller to get it right for you
3. More so than being tricky to drill, I think asymmetrics are simply more condition specific than symmetrics. 

Asyms tend to have a more defined move at the breakpoint and that may be advantageous in certain conditions (heavier, etc.), that can be a major disadvantage in other conditions because they also stand up more and can puke at the pins. 

So if you are constantly seeing conditions where the balls have rolled out and aren't as smooth at the breakpoint, you will always see the same reaction.  Then you'll come across a condition where you will swear the asym is magic. 

In the end, it's not you.  Asyms are simply more condition specific and if you don't bowl on the matching condition, asyms might always seem like crap for you.

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Steven

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2016, 04:27:33 PM »
Steven, I'm thinking maybe you missed the first part, or perhaps I am misunderstanding. Apologies if that's the case. The drill may be standard for righties, and there may be a lefty equivalent, but when a lefty throws the right hand drill, is that a valid test? I think not, looking for feedback on that question...

Yea, I guess I didn't make myself clear.
 
I was essentially asking if you ever had the left handed equivalent to the drill on your friend's ball on any of the asymmetrical balls you previously owned. That pattern is pretty vanilla, and most styles should at least be able to throw it decent.
 
To your original question, the test is invalid. Being a right handed ball, for you the MB is in the weak position, and you have a long pin to PAP. Unless you throw 400-500 RPM's, you're going to see a puke reaction.

lefty50

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM »
Steven, I can't really say with certainty that I've had the equivalent left hand drill. I've tried several different drills on the 6 asyms I've hated over the years, but no guarantees. The closest I've had to a drill that didn't roll over and die was pin under ring, MB kicked out 45 degrees. I remember from testing that the further out I put the MB, the better I "liked" it, although nothing entered the actual realm of like. I remember an old Track Mutant that would go 35-40 feet, make a violent right hand turn, and die... That's always stuck with me for some reason. These years I take down all measurements and take a picture and save it in an archive, but I didn't back then.

Rightycomplex

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2016, 01:49:05 AM »
Asyms are not too much of an anomaly. They are bigger cored, shorter hook zoned, mostly fast response balls. Very few are symmetric like in nature where they can corner and cover boards. They're to be used when you chase in or you need the ball to respond faster. It sounds to me like you don't have a lot of volume, so an Asym with a much shorter hook zone will start to hook in the heads and then roll out by the time it reaches the exit point of the pattern.

As a lefty myself, I have the same issue with Asyms as there just isn't enough volume to use them. I have to wait for mild Asyms(i.e. DV8 Vandal[Very good ball btw]) or weaker shells like the Code Black (another very good ball). Other than that, drilling them is key. I use either Big VAL angles(pin down or in rf) or short pin PAP(3" or less) and drill the MB in the thumb to lengthen the hook zone so the ball reads more like a Symmetrical. I drill most of my Asyms pin down but there are a few balls that have rolled really well with the MB in thumb.

The most successful is a Radical Black Reax (85x3 3/4x45, MB in thumb, pin above the rf) that rolled phenomenally but sadly cracked. I haven't wanted to really drill another asym yet but when I do, that layout will go into it.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Was this a valid test?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2016, 09:31:49 AM »
Yes, almost everything I have is symmetric with a flare increasing hole around P3-P4. Pin is usually above ring or in the middle, with Cg kicked out at 45 minimum.

Most newer asymmetric bowling balls aren't nearly as strong Int Diff wise as we saw a few years ago. Most manufactures keep the Int Diff on their stuff at .020 or less these days. Int diff of .008 or higher is considered asymmetric. Go look at the specs on any brands asymmetric core stuff and see.

With you having several bowling balls drilled pin up and with flare increasing weight holes that makes their finished core numbers every bit as asymmetric as almost any ball on the market these days.. You can easily get int diffs on symmetric core bowling balls in the .020 range or higher with these layouts. Something to consider
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