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Author Topic: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite  (Read 13037 times)

bradl

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My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« on: February 12, 2013, 02:26:25 PM »
I've been meaning to write this for a while, and after watching the 2/10/13 show, now is as good a time as ever. Others, if I am completely out of touch, please feel free to tell me so. These are just my concerns about the brand, and I hope that I am wrong. If not, feel free to discuss.

There are a lot of new brands coming up that is making the field almost as diversified as the sport was in the early-mid 90s:

Ebonite, Hammer, Columbia, Track, Brunswick, Storm, Roto-Grip, 900 Global, DV8, Lane #1, Motiv, Lord Field, Visionary... the names go on and on. I honestly can't remember a time when we had this many ball manufacturers in this sport (lessee.. in my time, up to 1999, I remember seeing Brunswick, Columbia, Ebonite, AMF, Fab, Nu-Line, Quantum, Storm, Track, and Lane #1, and that's it! 25 years worth from when I was born until 2000).

But while I know that each one goes through its time of being popular, the one brand here that really appears to be falling off by the wayside, is Ebonite.

All of the rest now still have a strong following, and lately, Storm is the flavour of the day. Hammer is still going strong, but to be honest, Ebonite has been struggling since the Mission Domination/250K.

Looking at the 2/10/13 show, and seeing Tommy back on TV, with the 10 balls that have come out between the Mission 250K and now (Mission X, Pursuit/Pursuit S, Elevate, Innovate, Exceed, Endure, Persevere, Challenge, Champion), it actually shocked me to see that he went back to a Gamebreaker, rather than some of the newer equipment Ebonite has (yes, he did go an Innovate later in the block, but still). The Challenge is a monster of a ball, and I know you should use the ball best suited for the condition, not what is newer (newer /= better), but seeing someone revert back to a 5 year old ball doesn't generate much confidence in the new products they are putting out, especially since Ebonite isn't seeing much air time on TV as they were 3 years ago.

Plus the videos.. As I've said before in other places, the market-speak is hurting their presentation of their gear. For example, their latest video for the Champion is barely a minute and a half, and half of that time is spent trying to stoke up the excitement as if it's a trailer for a Bond movie, with very little on the ball, and even when we see the ball, we pretty much see the same angle thrown by the same bowler, and nothing on how any of the balls used were laid out and drilled, patterns used, nothing. There's just a lot lacking there.

I also wonder if the multi-manufacturer deals are hurting them, in the fact that you aren't seeing the marquis bowlers often. Yes, you see Barnes and Fagan for Columbia and Track, but Ebonite only has 2-3 left, in Jones, Kulick, and Terrell-Kearney, and apart from the Women's series, you're not seeing either of them at all. Apart from them, O'Neill and Pluhowsky, everyone else is multi-brand: Mika, Johnson, Parkin, Blanchard, etc. While that may help to get EBI more exposure, Ebonite as a brand is really falling behind.

I wonder if this is part of the reasons why everyone and their mother is flocking to Storm, or at the least, avoiding Ebonite. All of this competition is great for the consumer, but also breeds innovation, and Ebonite may not be breeding it enough.

I only post this because I'm concerned where Ebonite is headed; I've been using their gear almost exclusively since the early 90s, and for me, their gear has been phenomenal. But now, something just isn't right.. I don't know what the answer is here for Ebonite, but what I do know is that they need to think of one and think of it fast, otherwise people will forget what Ebonite is.

BL.

 

bradl

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2013, 02:10:28 AM »
I appreciate the thoughtfulness and quality of your post.  This is provoking a very interesting discussion indeed.

I bowl all over Northern California and Storm dominates the region if what you see on the racks is any indication.  I would say Hammer and DV8 are next in line.

I rarely if ever see Ebonite balls themselves featured prominently in the pro shops, but always see Storm/Roto, Hammer, and Columbia.  I don't understand why.

Lately it seems I see Brunswick balls creeping into the shops around here, but that might be that I am noticing them because that's all I throw any more.

I am very happy that in the midst of consolidation that we have many smaller companies such as Seismic, Lane #1, Lordfield, Motiv, and Visionary that are still doing well, but that's another topic.

Why Ebonite seemingly neglects that name brand but does fairly well with it's other brands is a mystery to me!

I think you hit one of the nails on the head here. Also being in NorCal, I see the same thing, and as I mentioned before, it's a bit of a shock especially when coming from Vegas. It was no more than 6 months ago that Hulsenberg's shop had at least 4 Ebonite balls on the shelves, with a good showing of Hammer, Columbia, and Track. They even had a Demo days there.

Now? probably 75% Storm, with a splash of Hammer, Roto-Grip, and Track (there's another pro shop in town which the owner is on Track's staff, but that's another topic). I honestly felt like I was out of touch when I had them order and punch up a Challenge for me, even though they punched up the last 5 Ebonite balls for me.

I also seem to be the only one in my house that throws Ebonite equipment the night of my league. Everyone else across my league and the other 3 around me have mainly Track, Storm, the odd gold Rhino Pro, DV8, and a few splashes of Hammer (Taboo, BW, BW Bite, etc.) It just seems really unusual to me that I'm throwing something that is, for lack of a better word, unique in the area.

@ambi1

I think you're right about the gear being too strong. I started the night out with my Domination, and was throwing the same line as one of the other guys on my pair, who was using a B/S Taboo. I saw that that line was breaking down fast, so I made a 5 and 3 move left and went up to the Challenge, and pushed the oil out towards him, giving him major over/under. That dropped his 2nd game score by roughly 40 pins (240 down to mid 180s).

Ebonite's gear is strong, but still very controllable, so I still really don't get why they don't have much traction here, whereas Storm, which may have decent gear, can't be kept in stock to save its life..

Like I said, I don't know if it is just a bad area, marketing, not enough visibility, or what, but I don't know if this is also happening elsewhere in the country outside of here and Vegas.. if so, I'm not sure what could or should be done to stem that tide..

BL.

OnTheFly

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2013, 12:36:04 PM »
If you are reading this and haven't had confidence in a Ebonite piece in a while wait until early March.  The new Champion from Ebonite is a special piece.  I can honestly say no ball in the current line and or the last 4 years has given me the ball reaction I receive when throwing the Champion.  This ball will contend for ball of the year.  What a awesome display of cover core combo.  This ball will match all styles and is very driller friendly.  So if you are curious, stay tuned it will be available shortly.

- Nathan Michalowski
   Bowl to Win

bradl

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 04:25:39 PM »
If you are reading this and haven't had confidence in a Ebonite piece in a while wait until early March.  The new Champion from Ebonite is a special piece.  I can honestly say no ball in the current line and or the last 4 years has given me the ball reaction I receive when throwing the Champion.  This ball will contend for ball of the year.  What a awesome display of cover core combo.  This ball will match all styles and is very driller friendly.  So if you are curious, stay tuned it will be available shortly.


Please don't get me wrong here.. I have complete confidence in Ebonite's equipment, otherwise I wouldn't have stayed with them as long as I have. In fact, After seeing the surfaces on the Challenge that TJ uses in the video, I was looking at getting another Challenge pin up and polished to go with my OOB pin up Challenge so I could keep throwing the same ball and layout throughout a lane's transition.. Then I saw Hammer's First Blood, and was really leaning towards getting that, and going back to balling down when the lanes change.

Now with the Champion, I'm back on the bubble. How does it compare to the First Blood, let alone the Challenge?

BL.

dukeofearl

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 04:43:38 PM »
Please remember that Ebonite, Hammer, Columbia, Track and I think AMF are all Ebonite. Storm and Roto are the smae corporation. Brunswick Devi8, MoRich and now Radical are all Brunswick. Visionary, is on it's own, as are Lane #1 and Motive I think. Lord Field and some others are Chinese, I believe. So there really aren't as many ball companies as it looks at first glance. Remeber there are no magic balls, only magic bowlers!

tommyboy74

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 04:59:43 PM »
dukeofearl- Here is the list of the companies:

The big companies
EBI: Ebonite, Hammer, Track, Columbia 300
Storm: Storm, Roto Grip, Azo
Brunswick: Brunswick, DV8, Radical
900 Global: 900 Global, AMF

The Independent Companies
MoRich: poured by Brunswick
Lane #1: poured by 900 Global (used to be Brunswick)
Seismic: poured by 900 Global
Motiv: poured in-house (Brunswick's old plant in Michigan)
Lord Field: from South Korea IIRC
Visionary: poured in-house
Elite: poured in China
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 05:04:16 PM by tommyboy74 »
Current Ball Arsenal
Heavy:
MOTIV Jackal Legacy
MOTIV Mythic Jackal

Med-Heavy:
MOTIV Trident Odyssey
MOTIV Forge Fire
MOTIV Covert Revolt

Medium:
MOTIV VIP ExJ Sigma
MOTIV Sigma Sting
MOTIV Pride Solid

Medium-Light
MOTIV Venom Shock
MOTIV Tribal Fire

DP3

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 08:00:04 PM »
Unlike the other companies Ebonite has positioned itself in a way that hasn't been able to create brand loyalty.

Back in the Vortex/Cat Series/Stinger/Tornado days followed by the Gamebreaker/One Series days Ebonite had a much stronger following because there were 3-4 balls that the overwhelming majority deemed GREAT and word of mouth caught on.  Every time you went to a league or tournament, people were winning and scoring with the Vortex 2, One, Angular One, Game Breaker, Predator, Savage, Stinger Low Flare, SR 300.  You saw those balls so much that you wanted to try them, and when there was 5 or 6 great balls like that out at the same time, it was easy to put together an arsenal and feel like you were a part of a brand.  The bowlers who BUY (not staffers), more than anything want to feel like they are a part of something.  They want to be able to say "My brand is better/hits harder/hooks on the backend more/wins more on the PBA/has more honor scores in my league....than your brand". 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Ebonite makes bad equipment.  I'm sure it's probaly awesome and performs as well on the lanes as any other company.  Look at the success and loyalty that the Hammer and Track brands have built coming out of the same company.  Whatever their marketing strategy as a brand has been has not been able to captivate the bowlers who buy the most equipment as to why they should be a part of the Ebonite brand exclusively.

During my college bowling and pro shop operating days, I was a hardcore Ebonite fan.  Something about their equipment always felt right in my hands.  Their staff, customer service, demo days, and concern for the livelihood of pro shops was what made me say:

"Ok, if I'm not under contract, this is the company I want to spend my money with.  I believe in their message, I believe in their equipment."

Somehow they need to find a way to get this message to correlate to the people that they want to pay for their equipment.  Their other brands have found a way, and many of the other companies.  There's alot of good equipment out and alot of companies have found their niche.  What's Ebonite's?

JEE

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 09:10:37 AM »
Not only do I agree, but I will take it a little further. I think the quality of equipment in general is poor. The cover stock is now designed to provide more and more hook but also more and more cover stock failure because of oil absorption. You talk to Ebonite Companies staff or pro shop owners and they tell you - Oh its the way you take care of your equipment, bull hockey! I think they need to not worry so much about hook as longevity and quality of equipment then maybe you wont have to produce a new ball every quarter.

TREP

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 11:21:09 AM »
 I DISAGREE JEE. I HAVE SEVERAL EBONITE BALLS AND USE THE MAINTENCE GUIDE TO CLEAN THEM AND HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE QUALITY. HAVE A MISSION WITH 250+ GAMES AND NO ISSUES. HAD IT RESURFACES ONE TIME DUE TO KNICKS. SAME WITH MY GAMEBREAKER.I CLEAN EACH BALL AFTER EVERY USE AND USE HOT WATER AND DAWN EVERY 50 - 75 GAMES TO GET THE OIL OUT AND HAVE NOT SEEN ANY DIFFERENCE FROM THE TIME I GOT THEM. NO PROBLEMS WITH ANY OF THE 10 EBONITE BALLS I HAVE. THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH MY EQUIPMENT IS THE OPERATOR. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I HAVE WITH EBONITE IS THE PRICES. CAN NOT AFFORD THE NEW BALLS AND HAVE TO WAIT TILL THEY ARE ON CLEARANCE TO GET THEM AT A DECENT PRICE.AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED , USBC IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THE CHANGES THEY HAVE PUT IN PLACE. ANY BALL THAT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE RULES CHANGES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE PRODUCED.MAYBE PART OF THE REASON PEOPLE ARE NOT BOWLING ANYMORE. BUT THAT IS ANOTHER STORY...

bradl

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2013, 03:03:28 PM »
I DISAGREE JEE. I HAVE SEVERAL EBONITE BALLS AND USE THE MAINTENCE GUIDE TO CLEAN THEM AND HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE QUALITY. HAVE A MISSION WITH 250+ GAMES AND NO ISSUES. HAD IT RESURFACES ONE TIME DUE TO KNICKS. SAME WITH MY GAMEBREAKER.I CLEAN EACH BALL AFTER EVERY USE AND USE HOT WATER AND DAWN EVERY 50 - 75 GAMES TO GET THE OIL OUT AND HAVE NOT SEEN ANY DIFFERENCE FROM THE TIME I GOT THEM. NO PROBLEMS WITH ANY OF THE 10 EBONITE BALLS I HAVE. THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH MY EQUIPMENT IS THE OPERATOR. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I HAVE WITH EBONITE IS THE PRICES. CAN NOT AFFORD THE NEW BALLS AND HAVE TO WAIT TILL THEY ARE ON CLEARANCE TO GET THEM AT A DECENT PRICE.AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED , USBC IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THE CHANGES THEY HAVE PUT IN PLACE. ANY BALL THAT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE RULES CHANGES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE PRODUCED.MAYBE PART OF THE REASON PEOPLE ARE NOT BOWLING ANYMORE. BUT THAT IS ANOTHER STORY...

And I also have to agree here.

Quality of the equipment here isn't the problem. They've always put out great gear, and the quality of it has never been questioned. What the problem here (at least what I am seeing) is that the customers' loyalty to the brand is severely diminishing, and "why" is the question. Again, I'll use my experience here.

Up here in Sacramento, You could count on your fingers and toes how many people here are throwing Ebonite equipment, and that is including me being one of them. By contrast, I just went back home to Vegas and checked on my things, plus stopped by my pro shop down there. They are seeing similar, but Ebonite is still being sold down there. I'm gathering that the reason is that other manufacturers are coming on strong, not only with presence on tour and in big tournaments, but also because of media presentation. Hammer and Track are phenomenal with how they release new balls and present them in their videos. Ebonite is seriously lagging in that aspect, and are completely one dimensional. I've already mentioned the whole marketing vs. presentation thing so I won't rehash that.


Where I disagree here is price. Price is definitely *not* the problem. You have been buying high performance balls, you know? Undrilled, you are looking at roughly $160 - 180USD, and that is across the board for all of EBI's high performance gear. If you're concerned about price and still want the performance, you should look at EBI's midrange balls.

What I do not know is how much competitor's gear (Storm, etc.) is priced OOB and undrilled, especially for the high performance equipment. If there is a difference, that would definitely explain the quality, because out of the 20 years I've been throwing Ebonite gear, I have only had *1* problem with their equipment (the first batch of Turbo X balls had a separated core; they immediately replaced it). I still have those balls and they perform just as good as when I bought it. But if prices are comparable, then I doubt that it has anything to do with how much they are selling them for, but more on the performance, presentation, and presence of the brand to the public, and that's just part of what I see..

BL.

Bowler19525

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2013, 07:29:56 AM »
I am starting to return to bowling after almost a 7 year absence.  Prior to my absence I used only Ebonite and Brunswick, with Ebonite being my favorite.  My parents also bowl and both use Ebonite Missions.  My Dad liked his so much he bought another.  However, he is now looking at the Storm Sync for his next ball due to the high "buzz factor" at the lanes.

In any event, here is why I did *not* select an Ebonite ball this time.  Due to physical limitations I am now relegated to throwing 12lb equipment (previously used 14lb.)  Dynamic integrity at that weight is crucial.  While Ebonite's website does provide the RG/Diff specs of the lower weight, they do not provide images of the core shapes of the lower weight equipment.  By virtue of the fact that all of Ebonite's 12lb balls have the same RG/Diff specs I can only assume they all have the same core.  Regardless of whether I get a Champion, Innovate, or Endure they are all the same except for coverstock.  This is very disappointing.

I ended up with a 12lb Storm VG Nano.  It has a similar core shape compared to the higher weight versions, which gave me a little more confidence in the dynamic integrity.  Additionally, Storm's 12lb balls have variations in the RG/Diff specs across their offerings which further indicates dynamic differences.  Less important, but still a factor in my decision, was the price of the ball.  I was able to get it on recent closeout for less than $90 (a 12lb Champion would be $160+ and be dynamically identical to a $120 Endure...why bother?) 

Ebonite needs to understand that bowling has a large contingent of participants who are getting older, weaker, or developing other physical issues unrelated to age.  They cannot throw 14/15/16lb equipment forever.  Ebonite should consider spending some additional money on R&D to offer balls with additional dynamic integrity.  There is a market for this, whether they want to acknowledge it or not.  I am putting the time into doing my best on the lanes and it is important that the equipment also gives me a fighting chance.  Ebonite does not give me confidence that their current line-up would offer me that fighting chance.

My money will be spent with companies that seem to be making an effort to try and give bowlers the opportunity to fully experience their offerings even in the lower weights.  If Ebonite goes this route, I will come back.  Until then, Storm, Lane1, Brunswick, and Roto Grip will get my attention.

jonesybaseball

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Re: My Concerns: An Open Letter to Ebonite
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2013, 08:39:54 PM »
I live and bowl all over in the cincinnati area and ebonite has completely faded away.. There is only 2 pro shops i know of that actually sell ebonite products and there are mulitple ones in the area at that. I see multiple cyclones but other than that, i havent seen many other ebonite balls thrown besides maybe a few endures which the guy sold dirt cheap since he just couldnt get rid of them. Track and Hammer do exceptionally well around here while ebonite and columbia are just kinda off in a corner on their own. Granted here where i live there are probably 10 staffers, only one of them is sponsored by any EBI brands and it happens to be hammer. All the rest are either Brunswick, Storm, or Motiv. I myself stick to Storm or Roto grip with me throwing 2 handed. But if anyone from ebonite is feeling froggy and wants to send any free stuff, ill show you what the ball does and cant do in a video without any goofy bond crap or anything :)