BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: J_w73 on May 11, 2010, 05:32:31 PM

Title: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: J_w73 on May 11, 2010, 05:32:31 PM: The Neptune seemed to be the ball that everyone recommended for dry or burnt lanes. Is it still the weakest cover reactive?
How do the Slingshot and Backlashes compare?
Would one of the Urethanes that are out be weaker?
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Edited on 5/12/2010 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 12, 2010, 02:21:02 AM: Urethane is "better" if you prefer a smooth, arcing reaction, the ball will tend top read the lane earlier than a reactive which - even if it is weak - has a more pronounced reaction at the breakpoint and at wet/dry changes. It is probably personal preferrence - but I'f tend to a urethane piece with a core, because it not only offers good performance on drier to dry lanes, but also a different reaction shape than another reactive. Arsenal-wise, I think this would be a benefit, and thankfully there are several options to chose from.

Personally, I'd vote for the Ogre Urethane, and the upcoming Urethane Avalanche sounds promising for a dry lane ball, too. Both should be weaker than reactives, concerning coverstocks.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: notsohotshot on May 12, 2010, 07:41:50 AM: I personally think that the Power Groove Dry R is the weakest cover on a reactive but since Brunswick has quit making those I have tried the Slingshot and that ball works great on dry lanes and packs a punch also. It has very good carry for a weaker ball. I would have preferred it over the Dry R but that ball has served its purposes. I have some left if anyone is interested. They make good spare balls as well.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: on May 12, 2010, 07:53:23 AM: I'll vote the Slingshot. I love using mine anywhere from semi-burnt to toasted conditions. Much less snappy on the backend than most "dry lane" balls.

--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: bcw1969 on May 12, 2010, 08:13:33 AM: I will have to say that the Lane #1 Bullet has to be the weakest reactive cover. It IS discontinued however, but it goes long and doesn't do much on the backend, but the ball still hits. if you want a very weak cover, with the hit of a reactive ball, find a bullet.

Brad
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: charlest on May 12, 2010, 08:24:39 AM: The Neptune is "A" ball that many recommend for dry because, mostly, of the core. The cover is not weak. It also requires a weak drilling.

I'd agree with 2 other posters: the weakest coverstocks I have ever seen were the ones on the Power Groove Dry/R and the Bullet.

My Lane#1 Bullet was weaker in backend than my Desperado and my Hype Urethane. It truly had a urethane type of reaction. Wish I had one today.

Other very weak covers were the Storm Blue Hot Flame and the Dyno-Thane Barrage.

Today I find the Slingshot to be very good on dry-ish lanes, even though I'd never call PK 17 a weak cover. I also find the (original) Storm Hot Rod pearl to be very useful on dry. It has a strong drilling and is still weaker than any Neptune I've seen. So far the Sling shot seems as weak as my Desperado but their ball paths are still different.

Two recent entries into this niche that I haven't yet tried but seem worthy are the Visionary Ogre Urethane and the yet-to-be seee (Intro May 24) Brunswick Avalanche Urethane, a pearl urethane.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: Goof1073 on May 12, 2010, 09:26:38 AM: Try to find an older reactive ball...the just don't make them that weak anymore. Search around on Ebay or if you throw 15's I know of a NIB Too Hot.
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-Chris: DJ's Pro Shop : Auburn, MA
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: J_w73 on May 12, 2010, 09:37:00 AM: thanks for the info..
I've heard about the upcoming Avalanche urethane and that does sound pretty promising.

WOW!.. was just on the Bruns site and they have this posted on there..

http://www.bowlwithbrunswick.com/balls/detail/avalanche-urethane/
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: trash heap on May 12, 2010, 09:37:52 AM: It all depends on your style. When we are talking about burnt lanes for me I cannot use any reactive ball. I use a Urethane or Plastic.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: J_w73 on May 12, 2010, 09:47:13 AM: anybody have the BTM slingshot ratings?
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 12, 2010, 09:55:01 AM: quote:
I personally think that the Power Groove Dry R is the weakest cover on a reactive.

+1, had one and it was IMHO a great, mild ball. I just did not mention it because it is discontinued and probably hard to get NIB? Would be a hot item, though.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: the pooh on May 12, 2010, 09:58:42 AM: For what it is worth, here is my take on the Slingshots:Much stronger than I thought it would be for my low speed/ rev dominant style. It hooked a lot more than I had hoped for. Because of the core numbers, I had expected it to be a good replacement for the Lane #1 Chainsaw. It is MUCH stronger than the Chainsaw. Might be that the coverstock is that much stronger. It is also much more angular than I had anticipated. Especially with the drilling that I used, which is somewhat of a control layout recommended to me by Mo Pinel for my speed problem. I actually drilled two of these. The other is a slightly modified Rico layout. I expected it to be early and even, like other Rico''s I''ve done. NOT! It goes longer than the first, then flips on the backend. First, I tried knocking the factory polish off by going to 4000 AB, then 2000 AB. That just made the ball flat hook too much. Ended up getting the most useable look with 4000 AB + Extender Polish + Delayed Reaction. Still, I need carry down to use this ball. Much better ball than the Power Grooves it replaces. Even with the problems I had, the real core gives it a much more controllable breakpoint than the Power Grooves. For me, Powerkoil 17 is not much weaker than 18. At least on the conditions I bowl on. There seems to be an oil shortage. Still, A Great entry level offering from The Big B!

Review Ball Specifications
Games Used 40
Coverstock Finish Extender polish + Delayed Reaction
Drilling Angle 85
Pin to PAP 2 3/8
Pin to VAL Angle 45

Reviewer Specifications
Bowler Type Tweener (275-375 RPM)
Hand Right
Ball Speed 12
Axis Rotation 70
Axis Tilt 13
PAP Horizontal 4 3/4
PAP Vertical 3/8 ^
Staff Member No

Lane Specifications
Lane Surface Synthetic
Lane Condition THS,fresh and old, Kegel Middle of the Road
I agree with Dizzy, urethane(Natural and Desperado and old Vionary Amulet Glow) along with Lane #1 XXXL Starburst and the Chainsaw are my best dry lane choices. Though a good ball, avoid the AMF Hype urethane, it is MUCH stronger than the others and flares more also.
--------------------
the pooh

Edited on 5/12/2010 10:49 AM
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: No Revs00300 on May 12, 2010, 10:08:32 AM: I have had alot of luck with an AMF Smoke. That is the smoothest reactive ball I have ever thrown.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: J_w73 on May 12, 2010, 10:20:39 AM: quote:
It all depends on your style. When we are talking about burnt lanes for me I cannot use any reactive ball. I use a Urethane or Plastic.

I''m leaning towards the Avalanche Urethane when it comes out.

The Avalanche Urethane looks promising , C-24 on the Brunswick Ball Comparison Chart. Other than the Tzones and Visaballs that is the weakest ball they have had in a long time. Smoothest arcing as well.

Looks like it will be just a bit above a plastic. I think what a lot of people are looking for.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Edited on 5/12/2010 10:27 AM
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: ImBackInTheGame on May 12, 2010, 10:22:42 AM: The original Lane #1 chainsaw is fantastic. I can use it on almost any condition but really shines when it's dry. I used it on wood lanes that seriously hadn't been oiled in a week. I had to move way left (right handed) and throw around center arrow and it had decent length and had a great controllable backend movement. If I tried to throw anything else it would not stay on the right side of the head pin no matter my speed. Sure I could probably change my hand position and some other variables but the chainsaw allowed me to play my "a" game on the dryest of dry conditions.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: RealBowler on May 12, 2010, 10:33:03 AM: Any love for the Hammer Backlash?

--------------------
Haywood

********************************************
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill,
that we shall pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe,
in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

--JOHN F. KENNEDY
********************************************
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: the pooh on May 12, 2010, 10:53:32 AM: I will be drilling a blue/silver Hammer Backlash as soon as it comes in. Will let you know how it compares.
--------------------
the pooh
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: charlest on May 12, 2010, 10:55:10 AM: quote:
Any love for the Hammer Backlash?

--------------------
Haywood

********************************************
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill,
that we shall pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe,
in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

--JOHN F. KENNEDY
********************************************

From my perspective, FWIW, even the review in BTM made it seem nowhere near as weak as some of the others being discussed here. The Red/Purple is weak by Hammer standards and I can see some of their professionals who are capable of a good deal of speed using it well on dry lanes. But for those of us who can't garner more than 16/17 mph in the heads, it's just not as weak as the some of these others.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on May 12, 2010, 10:58:11 AM: 900 Global Link, weak cover with high RG, low diff, mild asymmetric. IMO the best dry lane reactive available.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: TamerBowling on May 12, 2010, 11:50:35 AM: Neptune is definitely not the weakest reactive out there. I see people having to swing it on a drier THS.
There is a bit of a gap right now between the Urethane shape and whatever the weakest reactive ball is. I find myself using Urethane on dry and burnt lanes frequently, but sometimes I simply want a touch less backend, with the same clean fronts that reactives provide. Urethane "does it's damage" in the fronts/mids. Despite this gap, when push comes to shove, I go with the Urethane.
I will be checking out the Slingshot to see how it fares soon. I've seen folks (even the ones that launch the ball!) unable to keep Razyrs and Tropicals from going through the face. They react so much on the backend because they save so much energy.
I've been told by better that the key to dealing with this is really learning proper hand adjustments, but that's not a 5 minute lesson, now is it?? If it were, we'd all be Walter Ray!
--------------------
www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: golfnutFL on May 12, 2010, 11:58:11 AM: Gotta agree with this one....

My Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Cherry Vibe, Tropical Storm and Neptune all are snappier (in descending order) on dry lanes than the Smoke. Great ball for dry lanes if you prefer reactive over urethane.

Have seen others have good luck with a Razyr...but haven't thrown one myself.

quote:
I have had alot of luck with an AMF Smoke. That is the smoothest reactive ball I have ever thrown.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: J_w73 on May 12, 2010, 12:18:48 PM: quote:
Neptune is definitely not the weakest reactive out there. I see people having to swing it on a drier THS.
There is a bit of a gap right now between the Urethane shape and whatever the weakest reactive ball is. I find myself using Urethane on dry and burnt lanes frequently, but sometimes I simply want a touch less backend, with the same clean fronts that reactives provide. Urethane "does it's damage" in the fronts/mids. Despite this gap, when push comes to shove, I go with the Urethane.
I will be checking out the Slingshot to see how it fares soon. I've seen folks (even the ones that launch the ball!) unable to keep Razyrs and Tropicals from going through the face. They react so much on the backend because they save so much energy.
I've been told by better that the key to dealing with this is really learning proper hand adjustments, but that's not a 5 minute lesson, now is it?? If it were, we'd all be Walter Ray!
--------------------
www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I

Not quite sure if this is what you are saying but my dilema is that urethane , even though it is weaker, does tend to be earlier. Sometimes too early for me which leads to bad angles at the back and bad carry.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: yeehayashi on May 12, 2010, 12:25:21 PM: I have an older Columbia 300 Scout reactive (prior to the Ebonite acquisition) that is very good on dry or burnt conditions.
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Spence Hayashi
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: J_w73 on May 12, 2010, 12:26:07 PM: quote:
Gotta agree with this one....

My Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Cherry Vibe, Tropical Storm and Neptune all are snappier (in descending order) on dry lanes than the Smoke. Great ball for dry lanes if you prefer reactive over urethane.

Have seen others have good luck with a Razyr...but haven't thrown one myself.

quote:
I have had alot of luck with an AMF Smoke. That is the smoothest reactive ball I have ever thrown.

So you are saying that your slingshot has more backend than your cherry vibe??
From what I have seen the Cherry Vibe seems stronger than just about all those balls you listed.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: RealBowler on May 12, 2010, 01:11:53 PM: quote:
Gotta agree with this one....

My Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Cherry Vibe, Tropical Storm and Neptune all are snappier (in descending order) on dry lanes than the Smoke. Great ball for dry lanes if you prefer reactive over urethane.

Have seen others have good luck with a Razyr...but haven't thrown one myself.

quote:
I have had alot of luck with an AMF Smoke. That is the smoothest reactive ball I have ever thrown.

How is the carry with the pancake core? I wouldn't mind seeing a ball with the Smoke cover and the Hype core, or maybe even the Orbit Extremes. To me the Slingshot looks pretty close the 2nd gen Orbit Extremes - slightly higher RG on the Slingshot.

--------------------
Haywood

********************************************
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill,
that we shall pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe,
in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

--JOHN F. KENNEDY
********************************************
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: charlest on May 12, 2010, 01:35:08 PM: quote:
quote:
Neptune is definitely not the weakest reactive out there. I see people having to swing it on a drier THS.
There is a bit of a gap right now between the Urethane shape and whatever the weakest reactive ball is. I find myself using Urethane on dry and burnt lanes frequently, but sometimes I simply want a touch less backend, with the same clean fronts that reactives provide. Urethane "does it's damage" in the fronts/mids. Despite this gap, when push comes to shove, I go with the Urethane.
I will be checking out the Slingshot to see how it fares soon. I've seen folks (even the ones that launch the ball!) unable to keep Razyrs and Tropicals from going through the face. They react so much on the backend because they save so much energy.
I've been told by better that the key to dealing with this is really learning proper hand adjustments, but that's not a 5 minute lesson, now is it?? If it were, we'd all be Walter Ray!
--------------------
www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I

Not quite sure if this is what you are saying but my dilema is that urethane , even though it is weaker, does tend to be earlier. Sometimes too early for me which leads to bad angles at the back and bad carry.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

Exactly why, for my Desperado, (a pearl urethane, by the way), I put the pin above the ring and put the MB in a semi-strong position. It has a good core with a mild degree of mass bias. I als oadded a light polish to it. Both help it retain energy, more than non-mass bias solid urethane balls. I put a longer pin-PAP with also a high pin on my Hype urethane and it's still earlier and hooks a lot more than my Desperado.

Any other urethane I get I will also use a "flippy" drilling with a long pin-PAP to help it get length and add as much backend as I can.

They will still be earlier than a mild pearl resin, but they also hook less and have less backend. And be much easier control altogether.

If I could get a new 15 lb Lane#1 Bullet with decent specs and at a decent price, I'd buy one immediately.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: fishbowler on May 12, 2010, 01:40:10 PM: I have a 15lb used dry r in mint shape if anyone is interested. single drill rh, pin very high.
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"I'd quit this game if I thought anyone would give a damn!"

"If Fishing is a Sport, well then you're looking at an athlete!"
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: ImakeA2srun on May 12, 2010, 01:41:11 PM: Tornado warning, Scout reactive, Emerald Vibe, AMF Smoke.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: kmanestor22 on May 12, 2010, 01:43:50 PM: My Dry R snapped a ton on dry lanes. V2 dry was better, more even backend. Still can't beat urethane.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: golfnutFL on May 12, 2010, 02:53:20 PM: Could just be match-ups...all drilled exactly the same with OOB prep. My Slingshot (as was the Slide) is extremely angular off very dry boards. The Vibe, for me, slightly less.

quote:
quote:
Gotta agree with this one....

My Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Cherry Vibe, Tropical Storm and Neptune all are snappier (in descending order) on dry lanes than the Smoke. Great ball for dry lanes if you prefer reactive over urethane.

Have seen others have good luck with a Razyr...but haven't thrown one myself.

quote:
I have had alot of luck with an AMF Smoke. That is the smoothest reactive ball I have ever thrown.

So you are saying that your slingshot has more backend than your cherry vibe??
From what I have seen the Cherry Vibe seems stronger than just about all those balls you listed.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: golfnutFL on May 12, 2010, 02:55:10 PM: On very dry lane conditions I find a smoother backend with normal pin carry with the Smoke...if they are dry enough I think the pancake helps tame the cover a bit.

quote:
quote:
Gotta agree with this one....

My Slingshot, Avalanche Slide, Cherry Vibe, Tropical Storm and Neptune all are snappier (in descending order) on dry lanes than the Smoke. Great ball for dry lanes if you prefer reactive over urethane.

Have seen others have good luck with a Razyr...but haven't thrown one myself.

quote:
I have had alot of luck with an AMF Smoke. That is the smoothest reactive ball I have ever thrown.

How is the carry with the pancake core? I wouldn't mind seeing a ball with the Smoke cover and the Hype core, or maybe even the Orbit Extremes. To me the Slingshot looks pretty close the 2nd gen Orbit Extremes - slightly higher RG on the Slingshot.

--------------------
Haywood

********************************************
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill,
that we shall pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe,
in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

--JOHN F. KENNEDY
********************************************
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: Crankenstein300 on May 12, 2010, 03:39:11 PM: The Track Desert Heat was money for drier conditions or times when you wanted to square up and just play straighter.
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: themagician on May 12, 2010, 03:52:44 PM: The B/G Centaur from visionary is an amazing dry lane piece, that ball is the most valuable to me piece that I own.

Urethane as mentioned can be pretty early on drier conditions but thats usually not the problem with it, its the carry that is hard to find because of a loss in entry angle, though a lot of the time if its so dry you need something that weak that carry isn't the biggest priority.
--------------------
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: charlest on May 12, 2010, 04:31:32 PM: quote:
The B/G Centaur from visionary is an amazing dry lane piece, that ball is the most valuable to me piece that I own.

Urethane as mentioned can be pretty early on drier conditions but thats usually not the problem with it, its the carry that is hard to find because of a loss in entry angle, though a lot of the time if its so dry you need something that weak that carry isn''t the biggest priority.
--------------------
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")

Mike,

I have 2 BGCs that I LOVE, but the Slingshot handles much drier than even when I use a 4000 grit + polish on my BGC.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 5/12/2010 4:32 PM
Title: Re: Weakest cover reactive ball for dry lanes
Post by: themagician on May 12, 2010, 04:34:44 PM: quote:
quote:
The B/G Centaur from visionary is an amazing dry lane piece, that ball is the most valuable to me piece that I own.

Urethane as mentioned can be pretty early on drier conditions but thats usually not the problem with it, its the carry that is hard to find because of a loss in entry angle, though a lot of the time if its so dry you need something that weak that carry isn''t the biggest priority.
--------------------
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")

Mike,

I have 2 BGCs that I LOVE, but the Slingshot handles much drier than even when I use a 4000 grit + polish on my BGC.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 5/12/2010 4:32 PM

That is very interesting, I have a very mild layout on my BGC and with it at 4000 and then polished it was even weaker than my Liberator that was at a polished finish (its hard to say the actual finish on a urethane, i took it 4000 and then applied polish for 10 minutes to get shine) with a very similar layout.
--------------------
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")