BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: jdsr300 on February 02, 2013, 08:24:16 AM
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I recently switched to a 14lb Tropical Breeze to help with my slow ball speed. It is out of box finish. I picked up a little speed but am not getting much carry.( I know, 14lb) What ball could I try to get a stronger back end to try to get better carry.
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Versa max......best ball I have ever had
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If you have a slow ball speed, the carry issue is the ball is dead on arrival...you need to get a ball that is designed to get down the lane easier storing more energy. It is less about ball weight...and the Versa Max is much stronger than the Breeze thus not only being stronger but changing your angles. I would suggest a IQ tour pearl or SlingShot and use a layout enhancing length, farther from your PAP.
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Columbia VOW
Ebonite Challenge
Track 714c
great pieces, would be prefect for you
Layout will be critical as mentioned above
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I have an issue with slower ball speed, and higher revs. I recently added a Roto Grip Shout, and have found great success with it.....and I throw 14lbs due to injury issues.
The Scream is the pearl version, with same core, and will cover approx same boards but with a more angular backend.
As JustRico stated...you are seeing a dead reaction as the ball has burned up its energy....and want something "weaker".
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This doesnt make sense to me. Poster is saying he has one of the weakest resin balls on the market and has trouble carrying. Rico says it is because the ball is burning up. So the answer is to go to something stronger?
I dont think that the ball is burning up as much as I think that since he claims to have picked up a little ball speed, that the ball is too weak. Then it would make sense to get something stronger. My suggestion, then, is a Tropical Heat. The Tropical Heat will still have a weaker cover to help get down the lane but the core will be stronger to help get some angle on the backend.
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Ball speed dictates everything in bowling today...especially carry. If he has issues with speed and the ball is flat, the ball is too strong. And the breeze is not that weak cover wise...core wise it is. You go to something stronger cover wise, which is what everyone us suggesting doesn't equate to more carry, it equates to more overall reaction which means more movement thus increasing his angles...does this sound optimum with slow ball speed?
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Try a hammer razor. It has a higher rg than the breeze for more length and uses the old pancake weight block so low differential Making it even rolling but still has a strong cover. I have both the breeze and the razor and I get more length out of the razor.
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Ball speed dictates everything in bowling today...especially carry. If he has issues with speed and the ball is flat, the ball is too strong. And the breeze is not that weak cover wise...core wise it is. You go to something stronger cover wise, which is what everyone us suggesting doesn't equate to more carry, it equates to more overall reaction which means more movement thus increasing his angles...does this sound optimum with slow ball speed?
Ric....I see what you are saying. It would be easier if he told us exactly what his ball speed and rev rate are. Is slow 12mph or 14-15mph? If he bowls with people mainly at 18mph, then 15 is going to seem slow. Plus, he did say he picked up some speed since dropping to 14. So does that mean he went from 12mph to 13-14. Or was he 14 and now 15-16? We really dont know the exact numbers so all we can do is speculate as to what the ball may be doing. I have a guy in my league that uses a Breeze and when he plays the middle of the lane (and he is rev dominate), the ball never really gets started and leaves flat 10s like crazy. However, when he moves outside and plays the track, the ball seems to struggle because the higher end balls have really blown that area up.
With the poster, my fear is that a Breeze to a 714C or VersaMax is a huge jump. I was thinking he just needs something a "little" stronger. My 3 balls to recommend are the Tropical Heat, Freeze, and Cyclone. But like I said. This is relative to what "slow" means and what his rev rate and lane conditions are.
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Without knowing the posters normal speed, his speed after he "picked it up", the layout of the ball, the type of lane surface he bowls on, and what the oil conditions bowled on are, to assume his ball is too strong is outrageous. The Breeze is one of the weakest reactive balls on the market...how can you say going to a weaker ball is going to improve his carry? When you're bowling and one of your balls isn't finishing strong and leaving corner pins, do you say to yourself "I need less hook and more length?" I would hope not.
A Slingshot, Razyr, Heat or Freeze isn't going to be any better than his Breeze. Weaker pin to PAP distances would help promote carry, but not on a ball that barely flares to begin with (Slingshot). It would go too long and again, never finish.
Poster needs something that starts a little earlier and is a little smoother that gets into a roll and won't blow past the breakpoint. Balls like an IQ Tour Pearl or a Ringer with more aggressive pin up layouts could work, as well as stronger pearlized balls like a Meanstreak, Wrench, 706A or Shatter with a weaker pin up layout could also work.
I suggest sitting down with your ball driller or somebody that knows or can evaluate how you bowl and discuss it with them. They will have a better idea on how to help you than a bunch of people who have never seen you throw the ball.
Remember everyone, sometimes it's just as simple as "weak ball is too weak, switch to stronger ball."
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Ya I guess I don't much...thanks for pointing that out...
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Without knowing the posters normal speed, his speed after he "picked it up", the layout of the ball, the type of lane surface he bowls on, and what the oil conditions bowled on are, to assume his ball is too strong is outrageous. The Breeze is one of the weakest reactive balls on the market...how can you say going to a weaker ball is going to improve his carry? When you're bowling and one of your balls isn't finishing strong and leaving corner pins, do you say to yourself "I need less hook and more length?" I would hope not.
A Slingshot, Razyr, Heat or Freeze isn't going to be any better than his Breeze. Weaker pin to PAP distances would help promote carry, but not on a ball that barely flares to begin with (Slingshot). It would go too long and again, never finish.
Poster needs something that starts a little earlier and is a little smoother that gets into a roll and won't blow past the breakpoint. Balls like an IQ Tour Pearl or a Ringer with more aggressive pin up layouts could work, as well as stronger pearlized balls like a Meanstreak, Wrench, 706A or Shatter with a weaker pin up layout could also work.
I suggest sitting down with your ball driller or somebody that knows or can evaluate how you bowl and discuss it with them. They will have a better idea on how to help you than a bunch of people who have never seen you throw the ball.
Remember everyone, sometimes it's just as simple as "weak ball is too weak, switch to stronger ball."
How do you figure that a Freeze is not going to be better than his Breeze? The Freeze and Cyclone both are considerably stronger than the Breeze even though the price points are pretty close. While we are at it, throw in the Cobalt Vibe. Plus, who said he needed to go weaker? Both of us said the Breeze is one of the weakest resins on the market. So I dont even get that statement. I just recommended something a little stronger to give him help without having such a huge gap between the Breeze and his "help". Thats all.
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Without knowing the posters normal speed, his speed after he "picked it up", the layout of the ball, the type of lane surface he bowls on, and what the oil conditions bowled on are, to assume his ball is too strong is outrageous. The Breeze is one of the weakest reactive balls on the market...how can you say going to a weaker ball is going to improve his carry? When you're bowling and one of your balls isn't finishing strong and leaving corner pins, do you say to yourself "I need less hook and more length?" I would hope not.
A Slingshot, Razyr, Heat or Freeze isn't going to be any better than his Breeze. Weaker pin to PAP distances would help promote carry, but not on a ball that barely flares to begin with (Slingshot). It would go too long and again, never finish.
Poster needs something that starts a little earlier and is a little smoother that gets into a roll and won't blow past the breakpoint. Balls like an IQ Tour Pearl or a Ringer with more aggressive pin up layouts could work, as well as stronger pearlized balls like a Meanstreak, Wrench, 706A or Shatter with a weaker pin up layout could also work.
I suggest sitting down with your ball driller or somebody that knows or can evaluate how you bowl and discuss it with them. They will have a better idea on how to help you than a bunch of people who have never seen you throw the ball.
Remember everyone, sometimes it's just as simple as "weak ball is too weak, switch to stronger ball."
How do you figure that a Freeze is not going to be better than his Breeze? The Freeze and Cyclone both are considerably stronger than the Breeze even though the price points are pretty close. While we are at it, throw in the Cobalt Vibe. Plus, who said he needed to go weaker? Both of us said the Breeze is one of the weakest resins on the market. So I dont even get that statement. I just recommended something a little stronger to give him help without having such a huge gap between the Breeze and his "help". Thats all.
Rico said the ball was too strong and suggested a Slingshot would be better. That doesn't make any sense. A Tropical Breeze isn't going to be too strong (on a fresh or second shift league shot), it has a .013 differential for a 14 lb ball, which MIGHT be the lowest on the market, and one of the weakest covers in the Storm line. There are also multiple types of Tropical Breezes, including hybrid and pearl versions, and we don't know which one he has.
Freeze, Vibe and Cyclone might work, but I think he would be better off with more of a mid range ball. IQ Tour Pearl is one of the best on the market and it should still give him plenty of length and backend reaction without being too sensitive to the friction and changing direction too fast, which is a problem for those with low ball speed.
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Did you take into consideration that Storm covers respond quicker to friction than Brunswick cover? That means the ball bleeds energy quicker. Secondly ball speed is the most important part of pin carry...if the ball is not hitting I'd find it extremely hard to believe its over skidding such as your teammate...btw I tend to base opinions off numerous situations not one...
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Did you take into consideration that Storm covers respond quicker to friction than Brunswick cover? That means the ball bleeds energy quicker. Secondly ball speed is the most important part of pin carry...if the ball is not hitting I'd find it extremely hard to believe its over skidding such as your teammate...btw I tend to base opinions off numerous situations not one...
So if I'm hitting the pocket and leaving plaque or flat 10 pins, I should just throw it slower? With your logic, if I do that it should work, correct? Why should anybody change balls when they have a bad reaction if ball speed would just make a bigger difference? Does it work the other way? How come when Chris Barnes keeps going through the face, he switches balls instead of just throwing it faster?
I don't understand the logic. If a ball hits carry down and doesn't finish how is that a problem with ball speed? How can you correctly assume that one of the weakest balls on the market not finishing well enough is due to the ball being too strong? Especially without knowing what/where/when/how he's bowling/bowling on?
Could it also be that he's just playing the wrong part of the lane? Would a simple 3 and 1 right make the ball carry better? Is he just playing the lanes wrong? We don't know these things.
Since he has slow ball speed, could it be possible he usually stands pretty far inside due to overhooking? If so, when he drills a weak ball, is he adjusting his feet, or standing in the same spot as a stronger ball, and expecting it to work?
These are questions we can't answer knowing as little as we know about the original posters situation, but in order to help them we must do what we can with what we know. He wanted to know what ball with a stronger backend would be helpful, and a Slingshot is not that.
Also, when he said he "switched" to a 14lb Breeze and "picked up" speed, does he mean he switched from a 15lb ball down to a 14lb ball? If so that is even more evidence that the Breeze is too weak, not too strong, as he's throwing a weaker ball than he's used to, faster than he's used to throwing it.
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A. pretty sure we weren't talking about you but apparently you need to make it about you
B. if he has slow or lower ball speed and not carrying I would pretty well bet that if he picked his speed up, thus getting the ball farther down the lane. If the ball didn't 'hit' at this point the player could then move right (assuming the bowler is right handed)
I am using extreme logic
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A. pretty sure we weren't talking about you but apparently you need to make it about you
B. if he has slow or lower ball speed and not carrying I would pretty well bet that if he picked his speed up, thus getting the ball farther down the lane. If the ball didn't 'hit' at this point the player could then move right (assuming the bowler is right handed)
I am using extreme logic
A. I did not say anything about me once. What do I gain from posting here? Why would I make it about me? I am simply trying to help. There's no need to get defensive and attempt insulting me because I am disagreeing with you. Your word should not be taken as gospel, nor should anyone elses.
B. If I am wrong, help steer me in the right direction. You have not answered any of the questions I have posed. Where I am from (NY), the logical answer to a ball not hitting well is a move right (for a righty), opening up your angles, or switching to a stronger ball (with a stronger backend move). Throwing it faster is counterproductive. I don't want to see jdsr300 spend money on something such as a Slingshot only to continue to have the same issue he's having with the Breeze.
Again, I get nothing from posting here or arguing with you. I am only trying to help. We can agree to disagree
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So if I'm hitting the pocket and leaving plaque or flat 10 pins, I should just throw it slower? With your logic, if I do that it should work, correct? Why should anybody change balls when they have a bad reaction if ball speed would just make a bigger difference? Does it work the other way? How come when Chris Barnes keeps going through the face, he switches balls instead of just throwing it faster?
This is not about you?
And we are talking about a casual bowler, competing on a typical house condition NOT Chris Barnes on tour....YOU obviously want to either argue or dispute anything or everything I've posted...
It is quite simple actually if a ball is traveling too slow, NOT an average speed matching the rev rate slow, but too slow of a ball speed for rev rate, the bowling ball is obviously losing energy...now there are 2 forms of losing energy, a bowling ball skidding in oil trying to change direction and thus losing energy in the process or a bowling ball traveling too slow losing its rotational integrity thus not hitting, meaning it needs to maintain its rotational integrity longer which generally translates to less surface or more speed...
I do not know how to explain it any better than that
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So if I'm hitting the pocket and leaving plaque or flat 10 pins, I should just throw it slower? With your logic, if I do that it should work, correct? Why should anybody change balls when they have a bad reaction if ball speed would just make a bigger difference? Does it work the other way? How come when Chris Barnes keeps going through the face, he switches balls instead of just throwing it faster?
This is not about you?
And we are talking about a casual bowler, competing on a typical house condition NOT Chris Barnes on tour....YOU obviously want to either argue or dispute anything or everything I've posted...
It is quite simple actually if a ball is traveling too slow, NOT an average speed matching the rev rate slow, but too slow of a ball speed for rev rate, the bowling ball is obviously losing energy...now there are 2 forms of losing energy, a bowling ball skidding in oil trying to change direction and thus losing energy in the process or a bowling ball traveling too slow losing its rotational integrity thus not hitting, meaning it needs to maintain its rotational integrity longer which generally translates to less surface or more speed...
I do not know how to explain it any better than that
When I said "I", it was in reference to anybody, not me specifically. I am not trying to argue or dispute everything you say. I understand the difference between the 2 forms of losing energy and you explained that very well. My main issue was, how can you tell from the information he has given that his ball is NOT skidding in oil? Wouldn't you agree that hitting too much oil is a more common ailment to a casual league bowler than throwing the ball too slow is? We don't know which scenario Jdsr300 is dealing with and therefor can't assume on or the other, and we can't assume its one just from the words "slow ball speed." Do you understand the issue I am having with your advice?
If he is experiencing loss of energy from losing its rotational integrity than you are right he needs to increase his speed, but that is easier said than done. A ball such as a Slingshot will not be different enough from a Breeze to mask the difference, and therefor he would need a stronger ball than that regardless.
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The average house condition is either on higher friction surface or a lack of oil on the lane...AGAIN I am basing this off the fact that the above average bowler has more issues with a bowling ball retaining energy than it skidding too much basically cause he posted he has lower than average ball speed...
Now you can post what you want but I believe I have explained my position to uber level you can either understand it and that suffices or you can go on disputing or trying to change my explanations...I think I've done a pretty damn good job of explaining my position
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OK, I should have given some more details. Due to injury I have only been able to throw 11mph with a 15lb Burst. I decided to try 14lb to pick up some speed and now am in the 12.5-13mph range. Several people suggested the Breeze ( Konica blue pearl cover) The burst hit hard even at slow speed but had a lot of over reaction if I missed out. I used to be slow before injury also. 14.5-15mph. Was averaging 209 on a house shot before the injury and am down to 184. The resurgence weight block has always worked well for me. Is there something similar that I could get in 14lb that may increase my carry?
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OK, I should have given some more details. Due to injury I have only been able to throw 11mph with a 15lb Burst. I decided to try 14lb to pick up some speed and now am in the 12.5-13mph range. Several people suggested the Breeze ( Konica blue pearl cover) The burst hit hard even at slow speed but had a lot of over reaction if I missed out. I used to be slow before injury also. 14.5-15mph. Was averaging 209 on a house shot before the injury and am down to 184. The resurgence weight block has always worked well for me. Is there something similar that I could get in 14lb that may increase my carry?
The Eruption has the Resurgence core in it with a more skid/flippy coverstock than the Burst. I have seen nothing but good things from that ball. The Violent Eruption claims to have an even more aggressive cover, so the regular Eruption would probably be a better fit for slower ball speeds.