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Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: ntablet1515 on January 06, 2017, 10:09:09 PM

Title: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: ntablet1515 on January 06, 2017, 10:09:09 PM
Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers (male or female)
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: AlonzoHarris on January 06, 2017, 10:12:19 PM
Norm Duke
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: spmcgivern on January 06, 2017, 10:21:11 PM
Depends on your definition of stroker.  I don't think there are any successful pro bowlers with less than 225 rpms.  There are a lot of guys who play the gutter like Norm Duke, Walter Ray, Parker Bohn, Haugen, Pepe and Scroggins.  But at the same time, they have a decent rev rate.

I think the closest is Duke, but I have crossed with him when he was playing left of center wheeling the whole lane.

I think in reality, Liz Johnson is the closest.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Steven on January 06, 2017, 10:33:30 PM
Depends on your definition of stroker.  I don't think there are any successful pro bowlers with less than 225 rpms.  There are a lot of guys who play the gutter like Norm Duke, Walter Ray, Parker Bohn, Haugen, Pepe and Scroggins.  But at the same time, they have a decent rev rate.

I think the closest is Duke, but I have crossed with him when he was playing left of center wheeling the whole lane.

I think in reality, Liz Johnson is the closest.

 
+1.......
 
I too have crossed with Duke. Also with Walter Ray, Bohn, Haugen, and Scroggins. All these guys have decent rev rates. Actually being on the lanes with them vs. just seeing them on TV gives you a completely different perspective. 
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: earlyrolling on January 07, 2017, 02:19:21 AM
Would Lonnie Waliczek be considered a stroker?

Otherwise, you might find more professional strokers abroad such as in the P*League:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGoJJ3C5wgk
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: DP3 on January 07, 2017, 04:06:32 PM
Michael Haugen, Andrew Cain, Scott Norton and Aaron Lorincz I would all consider strokers. Even still, they have way higher revrates than an average league bowler and much better speed management in order to hook it when they need to.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: bradl on January 09, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
Michael Haugen, Andrew Cain, Scott Norton and Aaron Lorincz I would all consider strokers. Even still, they have way higher revrates than an average league bowler and much better speed management in order to hook it when they need to.

I'd throw Anthony Pepe and Martin Larsen in there as well, but as you said, even he'd have a higher rev rate than most league bowlers.

for a true stroker, you're looking at some of the older guys: Duke, Voss, Husted, Dave Arnold.

BL.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Steven on January 09, 2017, 04:34:32 PM
Michael Haugen, Andrew Cain, Scott Norton and Aaron Lorincz I would all consider strokers. Even still, they have way higher revrates than an average league bowler and much better speed management in order to hook it when they need to.

I'd throw Anthony Pepe and Martin Larsen in there as well, but as you said, even he'd have a higher rev rate than most league bowlers.

for a true stroker, you're looking at some of the older guys: Duke, Voss, Husted, Dave Arnold.

BL.

 
Duke and Voss in particular can play effectively off the left gutter when needed. A few years ago at the Senior Masters I watched Duke struggle one game playing off the right gutter, and then move off the left gutter the next game to throw a 300. The point is these guys are not "strokers" in any sense of what most bowlers would understand.
 
The closest to stroker in your list is Dave Arnold. I've crossed with him in Regionals a few times, and his rev rate is closer to mine than any of the other bowlers you referenced.  ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: spmcgivern on January 09, 2017, 05:17:02 PM
Many people look at the effort shown by the so-called professional "strokers" and think they aren't getting much on the ball.  But that is what makes them so good.  They can make 300+ rpm look like a stroker.  Plus, with many bowlers going with a more forward roll to control the breakpoint, the number of boards covered may give the impression of stroker.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: bradl on January 09, 2017, 06:07:56 PM
Michael Haugen, Andrew Cain, Scott Norton and Aaron Lorincz I would all consider strokers. Even still, they have way higher revrates than an average league bowler and much better speed management in order to hook it when they need to.

I'd throw Anthony Pepe and Martin Larsen in there as well, but as you said, even he'd have a higher rev rate than most league bowlers.

for a true stroker, you're looking at some of the older guys: Duke, Voss, Husted, Dave Arnold.

BL.

 
Duke and Voss in particular can play effectively off the left gutter when needed. A few years ago at the Senior Masters I watched Duke struggle one game playing off the right gutter, and then move off the left gutter the next game to throw a 300. The point is these guys are not "strokers" in any sense of what most bowlers would understand.
 
The closest to stroker in your list is Dave Arnold. I've crossed with him in Regionals a few times, and his rev rate is closer to mine than any of the other bowlers you referenced.  ;D

Then we should just go ultimate stroker, with Gary Dickinson. :P

BL.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: TamerBowling on January 09, 2017, 06:33:11 PM
Many people look at the effort shown by the so-called professional "strokers" and think they aren't getting much on the ball.  But that is what makes them so good.  They can make 300+ rpm look like a stroker.  Plus, with many bowlers going with a more forward roll to control the breakpoint, the number of boards covered may give the impression of stroker.
Right, Randy Pederson called Dom Barrett a stroker so it makes you wonder what the definition is anymore.  Traditionally, people think rev rate in the 3 levels: Stroker, Tweener, Cranker.  But I'm inclined to agree that Dom strokes the ball really nicely, even though he's got a high rev rate.  I would consider a Mike Devaney a cranker but doesn't have a higher rev rate than Dom as far as I can recall. 
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Brandon Riley on January 09, 2017, 06:39:01 PM
Outdated terms leftover from the 80's and early 90's.  You don't see guys who only play up 5 anymore or very many prototypical late timing, wild max rev guys anymore.  Bowling has become the game of versatility for those who are successful at the highest level.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: tommyboy74 on January 09, 2017, 09:57:01 PM
Michael Haugen, Andrew Cain, Scott Norton and Aaron Lorincz I would all consider strokers. Even still, they have way higher revrates than an average league bowler and much better speed management in order to hook it when they need to.

I'd throw Anthony Pepe and Martin Larsen in there as well, but as you said, even he'd have a higher rev rate than most league bowlers.

for a true stroker, you're looking at some of the older guys: Duke, Voss, Husted, Dave Arnold.

BL.

 
Duke and Voss in particular can play effectively off the left gutter when needed. A few years ago at the Senior Masters I watched Duke struggle one game playing off the right gutter, and then move off the left gutter the next game to throw a 300. The point is these guys are not "strokers" in any sense of what most bowlers would understand.
 
The closest to stroker in your list is Dave Arnold. I've crossed with him in Regionals a few times, and his rev rate is closer to mine than any of the other bowlers you referenced.  ;D

Then we should just go ultimate stroker, with Gary Dickinson. :P

BL.


Or we could go with Guppy Troup, Ernie Schlegel or Mats Karlsson from way back.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: dmonroe814 on January 10, 2017, 12:56:10 PM
I  would also lump in a large number of PWBA bowlers.  Stephanie Johnson, along with Liz Johnson.  Most are lower rev rates.  I agree with a previous poster, that the terms are outdated. I have seen Norm and Walter Ray swing the ball like a cranker.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Luke Morningwood on January 10, 2017, 01:24:59 PM
Carolyn Dorin-Ballard has one of the lowest rev rates you will ever see in a top tier bowler. But she will shoot the lights out on you if you give her anything to work with, and I have still seen her play a lane inside out a bit, just not like you get used to seeing with the PBA and higher rev PWBA players.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Bowl_Freak on January 10, 2017, 01:29:32 PM
What would Eugene McCune be considered then? Power stroker??
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: bradl on January 10, 2017, 02:29:34 PM
What would Eugene McCune be considered then? Power stroker??

I'd say barely... he's more speed than anything else, so for him it really does come down to the right pattern for him to excel.

However, I would definitely put David Ozio in as a stroker.

BL.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Luke Morningwood on January 10, 2017, 03:25:57 PM
Eugene and his speed is definitely part of his "A" game, but I have seen him slow down and hook the crap out of it, and his rev rate is pretty good if he wants it to be.
Ozio was sneaky.  His mechanics were so good that he is one of those guys that you would never guess could  curve the lane, and it wasn't his first choice, but he could do it plenty good if he had to.

I have a friend who had a big, urethane release and big rev rate, and he crossed with Ozio when the Teal Rhino was big on tour, and my friend was using one. My friend was playing the lane inside out and shot a respectable 8 game block of around 240 over.  Ozio was using a Columbia Blue Dot straight up the boards and was 300 over. Later, Ozio was talking to my friend and they were joking around, and Ozio told him, "yeah, I was using my reactive Blue Dot". They both just cracked up, but that was when my friend told me he realized how good those regular tour guys really were.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: xrayjay on January 10, 2017, 03:26:11 PM
is Francois Lavoie one??? is he a stroker?

What the heck is a stroker these days? I'm confused. RP call him a classic style/stroker.

Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: charlest on January 10, 2017, 04:30:19 PM
is Francois Lavoie one??? is he a stroker?

What the heck is a stroker these days? I'm confused. RP call him a classic style/stroker.



Yup.
I'd say low (175-275 +/-) revs, low-to-medium ball speed.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 10, 2017, 05:14:44 PM
Rev rates are not a good way to classify bowlers.  He would be classified that way by style.  But his rev rate is way closer to 400 than 275.  The one thing that looks way lower on television than in person is rev rate.  Go to a PBA event and you will realize just about everyone's ball revolves way more than it looks on tv. 
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Steven on January 10, 2017, 05:52:59 PM
Rev rates are not a good way to classify bowlers.  He would be classified that way by style.  But his rev rate is way closer to 400 than 275.  The one thing that looks way lower on television than in person is rev rate.  Go to a PBA event and you will realize just about everyone's ball revolves way more than it looks on tv.

 
Amen. It's not close in many instances.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: xrayjay on January 10, 2017, 06:06:51 PM
Rev rates are not a good way to classify bowlers.  He would be classified that way by style.  But his rev rate is way closer to 400 than 275.  The one thing that looks way lower on television than in person is rev rate.  Go to a PBA event and you will realize just about everyone's ball revolves way more than it looks on tv.

 
Amen. It's not close in many instances.

I must agree. When I worked in Sports Entertainment, these athletes like Chris webber had ankles like my distal forearm, small ankles. Guys on ESPN didn't seem that big either when not wearing a suite. I'd be standing next to these guys and wonder how did Spud Webb and Mogsey B. play with six/seven footers? They are so short. Or guys in the NFL or professional body builders, it's the opposite. They don't look that big on TV, but damn they are huge! Mr. Terminator at his later age, if you saw his cavles!! they look like they can crush a cans!

So big difference for sure, from TV and being their yourself. A dunk on TV by shaq isn't the same live.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: northface28 on January 10, 2017, 06:43:47 PM
is Francois Lavoie one??? is he a stroker?

What the heck is a stroker these days? I'm confused. RP call him a classic style/stroker.



Yup.
I'd say low (175-275 +/-) revs, low-to-medium ball speed.

Lavoie is well over 275 rev rate, well over.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: charlest on January 11, 2017, 03:49:32 AM
is Francois Lavoie one??? is he a stroker?

What the heck is a stroker these days? I'm confused. RP call him a classic style/stroker.



Yup.
I'd say low (175-275 +/-) revs, low-to-medium ball speed.

Lavoie is well over 275 rev rate, well over.

If he is, I wouldn't say that disqualifies him. That range was a ball park and I won't be inflexible about it.
I'd still think from general appearances, he's a stroker.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 11, 2017, 07:21:27 AM
Exactly.  The PBA Tour is full of a lot of guys with effortless power, compared to the typical league night where you see a lot of powerless effort. 
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: LookingForALeftyWall on January 11, 2017, 08:34:44 AM
is Francois Lavoie one??? is he a stroker?

What the heck is a stroker these days? I'm confused. RP call him a classic style/stroker.



Yup.
I'd say low (175-275 +/-) revs, low-to-medium ball speed.

Lavoie is well over 275 rev rate, well over.

If he is, I wouldn't say that disqualifies him. That range was a ball park and I won't be inflexible about it.
I'd still think from general appearances, he's a stroker.

The video in the following link says Lavoie's rev rate is 400: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXg1bcp4cIc

Not sure that it's that high but I do know just by watching it is well over 300.  You can also do a comparison between him and Walter Ray here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKf9w41BBR0.  Walter Ray is reportedly around 250-300 and Lavoie's rev rate appears to be much higher than his...
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: charlest on January 11, 2017, 09:32:21 AM
is Francois Lavoie one??? is he a stroker?

What the heck is a stroker these days? I'm confused. RP call him a classic style/stroker.



Yup.
I'd say low (175-275 +/-) revs, low-to-medium ball speed.

Lavoie is well over 275 rev rate, well over.

If he is, I wouldn't say that disqualifies him. That range was a ball park and I won't be inflexible about it.
I'd still think from general appearances, he's a stroker.

The video in the following link says Lavoie's rev rate is 400: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXg1bcp4cIc

Not sure that it's that high but I do know just by watching it is well over 300.  You can also do a comparison between him and Walter Ray here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKf9w41BBR0.  Walter Ray is reportedly around 250-300 and Lavoie's rev rate appears to be much higher than his...

Lavoie's rev rate is 400?
You'll pardon me if I take that with a POUND of salt. I don't care what measurements they give, by what device.
I think they exaggerate their rev rates, just like the exaggerate the height of all the bowlers. That must make Lavoie about 6'6". :)
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: LookingForALeftyWall on January 11, 2017, 09:52:18 AM

Lavoie's rev rate is 400?


My estimate is between 325 and 375.  He has deceptive power and speed given his smooth and efficient delivery.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: avabob on January 11, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
Being a stroker is not defined by rev rate.  Rather it is about having a free arm swing without an exaggerated high back swing and no late timing or extreme acceleration at the bottom.  In my experience you can generate close to 300 rpm while being a pure stroker, although I don't think anyone is really totally pure anymore.  Best example I can remember of a pure stroker was Ozio.  Going further back into the early 70's there were quite a few.  Stefanich might be another good example.   A lot of guys in the 90's up until about 10 years ago would meet the definition of power strokers that was coined in the 80's.  Guys like Voss and Pederson meet that criteria.  Larsen is probably in that category today.

Walter Ray is not close to being a stroker even though he has a rev rate associated with strokers. 
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: xrayjay on January 11, 2017, 11:23:45 AM
I wonder if FL low axis rotation and low axis tilt has to do with revrate??? I don't know, but some1 told me I have more revs than another bowler. who's like a real tweener, power stroker than I am. The "coach", not mine, said I have more rev rate due to my roll?? At the time I had 7* tilt and 40-45* rotation - hated it. But, wouldn't someone in the opposite spectrum look to have more revrate??? I don't understand.... anyway, Revs or no revs, the guy won a green jacket.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: charlest on January 11, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
Being a stroker is not defined by rev rate.  Rather it is about having a free arm swing without an exaggerated high back swing and no late timing or extreme acceleration at the bottom.  In my experience you can generate close to 300 rpm while being a pure stroker, although I don't think anyone is really totally pure anymore.  Best example I can remember of a pure stroker was Ozio.  Going further back into the early 70's there were quite a few.  Stefanich might be another good example.   A lot of guys in the 90's up until about 10 years ago would meet the definition of power strokers that was coined in the 80's.  Guys like Voss and Pederson meet that criteria.  Larsen is probably in that category today.

Walter Ray is not close to being a stroker even though he has a rev rate associated with strokers. 

No one ever said a stroker is ONLY defined by rev rate, but, as I perceive them, it is one factor, IN MY OPINION. I don't ask you to agree with me.

I think that putting bowlers in these niches limits one's perception of their abilities.

I think the categories are only useful to non-PBA touring bowlers, as an example of the type of bowler they are. To allow them to help to understand their game, as compared to the professionals they see on TV.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: spmcgivern on January 11, 2017, 01:06:38 PM
Typically the terms stroker, tweener and cranker are being used to sell bowling balls.  It doesn't make sense to label someone a stroker simply because he has a smooth delivery.  What matters is how his ball gets down the lane.

If a bowler has a smooth delivery (stroker) and has 200 rpms and say 14 mph, should he watch Lavoie and make ball decisions based on what he uses?  Of course not.  He should look for someone with the same characteristics, even if he has a delivery that looks like E.J. Tackett.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: LookingForALeftyWall on January 11, 2017, 05:08:45 PM
If I had a delivery that looked like EJ Tackett's but only generated 200 rpms and 14 mph in speed, I would cry.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: BeerLeague on January 12, 2017, 07:46:50 AM
off the top of my head ....

Walter Ray Williams Jr.
Micheal Haugen
Norm Duke (when he plays it that way)

I'm sure there is more.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: bcw1969 on January 12, 2017, 08:30:42 AM
Although he hasn't bowled on tour since the earl 90's, Don Genalo would be the definition of a  stroker, and he played mainly a straight ball with much end over end rotation as seen in this clip.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5LIpA-N-s

Brad
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: bradl on January 12, 2017, 12:45:21 PM
Although he hasn't bowled on tour since the earl 90's, Don Genalo would be the definition of a  stroker, and he played mainly a straight ball with much end over end rotation as seen in this clip.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5LIpA-N-s

Brad

That reminds me. I'd even throw John Handegard in as a stroker. He was almost as smooth as Dickinson.

BL.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: squirrelywrath1 on January 12, 2017, 08:07:28 PM
Has anyone thought to mention the great Earl Anthony as "the" classic stroker?
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: spmcgivern on January 13, 2017, 07:49:29 AM
You could probably name everyone before Roth as strokers, especially when you compare their forms with current ones.

I guess I took this conversation as pertaining to current PBA bowlers.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: bradl on January 13, 2017, 12:45:23 PM
You could probably name everyone before Roth as strokers, especially when you compare their forms with current ones.

I guess I took this conversation as pertaining to current PBA bowlers.

Jack Jurek?

BL.
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: Steven on January 13, 2017, 06:13:57 PM
You could probably name everyone before Roth as strokers, especially when you compare their forms with current ones.

I guess I took this conversation as pertaining to current PBA bowlers.

Jack Jurek?

BL.

LOL..... No
Title: Re: Can anyone give a list of professional bowlers who are strokers
Post by: tommyboy74 on January 13, 2017, 06:29:40 PM
Although WRWJ basically could have been considered a cranker for a short time way back in early 1980's.  Check out the difference in his style back then compared to now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avyPQ4oUZaE&t=136s