BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: milorafferty on January 09, 2017, 01:10:40 PM
-
...for our yearly thread of "who is going and when do you bowl", the Open.
My teams are scheduled for July 5th and 6th. That is later than I wanted, but when trying to schedule a group I have to consider dates when everyone can make it.
And for those of you who feel then need to tell us all about how you will never bowl the Open (again) because USBC is just such an evil bunch of SOB's, it's been in Reno/Vegas too many times, the average system is unfair, etc. feel free to enjoy a heaping bowl of "I don't care what you think." so start your own damn thread on the topic.
-
Bowling March 31, and April 1st.
Looking forward to it.
-
Milo, are you taking the bus?
-
Not bowling, wish I was. Never been to Vegas. Has to be a good time, during bowling and after bowling!
Good luck to all.
-
Bowling March 31, and April 1st.
Looking forward to it.
Looking forward to it as well. I have a 10 day vacation planned around the tournament.
We have tickets to several different shows already. I do love me some cirque du soleil!
We are scheduled for a machine gun range, which should be a blast(pun intended). I also have a track day scheduled where she will drive a Ferrari 458 Italia and I will be in a Lamborghini Huracan.
Of course, there will be some bowling too. ;D
-
Milo, are you taking the bus?
Na, not this time. I'm saving that one for Syracuse. We will drive to Vegas, but a cross country bus trip? Man, that would be an event. LOL
-
How many people are needed for a team? 4 or 5? (can't open those files at Bowl.com here at work).
I've never been, but have only been bowling for 4 years. Not sure I'd be able to find the guys to latch on to that would be able to fly out. I have been targeting Syracuse for a while now; which is at least in driving distance and it may be easier to piece together a team. Hopefully with at least a couple guys who know what goes on.
Good luck to all you guys heading out this year.
-
We are bowling on March 27th and 28th. It will be my second trip to Vegas, so maybe I can come home a millionaire! LOL
-
How many people are needed for a team? 4 or 5? (can't open those files at Bowl.com here at work).
I've never been, but have only been bowling for 4 years. Not sure I'd be able to find the guys to latch on to that would be able to fly out. I have been targeting Syracuse for a while now; which is at least in driving distance and it may be easier to piece together a team. Hopefully with at least a couple guys who know what goes on.
Good luck to all you guys heading out this year.
Need 5 people for a team. If you can't field a team, you can always sub and the USBC website has a sub board. My first year, I subbed for both team and doubles/singles.
-
We have at least 2 teams going on a weekend in May or early June, I don't remember which one. It'll be my first time actually bowling the Open.
I need some more practice on medium length patterns before going. I've cashed my last 2 tournaments in Vegas on 47ft and 36ft, I've struggled on patterns in the 39-42 range
-
How many people are needed for a team? 4 or 5? (can't open those files at Bowl.com here at work).
I've never been, but have only been bowling for 4 years. Not sure I'd be able to find the guys to latch on to that would be able to fly out. I have been targeting Syracuse for a while now; which is at least in driving distance and it may be easier to piece together a team. Hopefully with at least a couple guys who know what goes on.
Good luck to all you guys heading out this year.
Need 5 people for a team. If you can't field a team, you can always sub and the USBC website has a sub board. My first year, I subbed for both team and doubles/singles.
Thanks Milo. It's cool that this option is available, but it's not for me. I have anxiety just thinking about it. I'd rather go with friends and share the experience. (Which means I may never go)
-
I'm may 8th/9th I believe
-
Bowling April 17th and 18th
-
My group bowls Sunday, May 7 and Monday, May 8 this time around. Sadly, since I'm a teacher and coach, I have to fly in Saturday evening and fly out Monday after we're done. Still, I'm looking forward to it; it's my favorite bowling event of the year for many reasons. Plus, flights to Vegas are much, much cheaper than Reno. I just booked nonstop flights on SWA for $220. The last couple of years in Reno, I've been between $350-400. I guess I can spend the savings at the bracket window or at the tables!
-
May 4-5. Couldn't get my own team. Was picked up by a big group off the sub board. BTW I like Reno. I am comfortable there, I like the stadium and that there are a lot of sights within walking distance.
-
My group bowls Sunday, May 7 and Monday, May 8 this time around. Sadly, since I'm a teacher and coach, I have to fly in Saturday evening and fly out Monday after we're done. Still, I'm looking forward to it; it's my favorite bowling event of the year for many reasons. Plus, flights to Vegas are much, much cheaper than Reno. I just booked nonstop flights on SWA for $220. The last couple of years in Reno, I've been between $350-400. I guess I can spend the savings at the bracket window or at the tables!
I have two teachers who bowl with my group currently, so I always have to push our dates out toward mid-June or later. I'm looking forward to Vegas myself, although Reno is only a couple hours drive for me, I bowl in Reno 6 to 10 times a year already.
-
I'd love to bowl it toward the end so that I didn't have to fly in late and rush out right after bowling, but I'm with a great group these days, so it's worth the tight schedule.
-
Bowling May 15th and 16th. Will arrive on Sunday and leave on Friday.
Driving from the Detroit area. Stopping at 4 Corners Monument and the Grand Canyon on the way there. Visiting Hoover Dam the day after bowling. Thursday we walk the strip.
Staying at an AirBNB home. Cheaper than hotels and NO resort fees.
-
Wow, that's a lot of windshield time. North or south rim?
-
I missed another year......
I should of signed up and have gone. 8 hour drive with free stay - bunch of relatives to choose from for "room and board". But being there with relatives, I'll be too sleepy and hung over to bowl.
-
Is there a good place to stay that is relatively close to the strip that doesn't have the resort fee?
-
Is there a good place to stay that is relatively close to the strip that doesn't have the resort fee?
that depends. What amenities would you require?
BL.
-
Is there a good place to stay that is relatively close to the strip that doesn't have the resort fee?
that depends. What amenities would you require?
BL.
Nothing special, I don't plan on spending a lot of time in the room anyway. Just something clean with at least a queen bed.
-
Bowling on May 30-31 second trip to vegas for the nationals
-
>>Wow, that's a lot of windshield time. North or south rim?
I believe it is the south rim in Arizona.
-
We will bowl May 15, 16.
From Wichita.
With Southwest in town we have a direct flight so going that way. I have driven it several times in the past as well as to Reno.
-
Is there a good place to stay that is relatively close to the strip that doesn't have the resort fee?
that depends. What amenities would you require?
BL.
Nothing special, I don't plan on spending a lot of time in the room anyway. Just something clean with at least a queen bed.
You could always try the typical hotel chains. The Hampton Inn, as it isn't a resort/casino, has what you're looking for. It is on the west side of I-15 on Tropicana. Other than that, there is the Holiday Inn Express on I-15 and Russell. That one will put you across the freeway from Mandalay Bay/Luxor, while the Hampton will put you across the freeway from Excalibur/NYNY/Tropicana/MGM Grand.
Keep in mind that you still may be paying roughly the same, just simply due to being in proximity of Las Vegas Blvd.
BL.
-
This just in...
Apparently the USBC Masters will use the doubles/singles pattern from the Open Championships meaning the best bowlers in the world will bowl at least 10 games on the pattern prior to Open Championship competition. Combine that with additional squads at the Bowlers Journal and these players will have significant knowledge of the pattern prior to competition so my question to the group is this:
The pattern isn't being released to "level the playing field" for those that do not have access to facilities were they can practice on the pattern, so does this sound fair to the 99% of Open Championship participants that are not in the elite?
-
This just in...
Apparently the USBC Masters will use the doubles/singles pattern from the Open Championships meaning the best bowlers in the world will bowl at least 10 games on the pattern prior to Open Championship competition. Combine that with additional squads at the Bowlers Journal and these players will have significant knowledge of the pattern prior to competition so my question to the group is this:
The pattern isn't being released to "level the playing field" for those that do not have access to facilities were they can practice on the pattern, so does this sound fair to the 99% of Open Championship participants that are not in the elite?
Source?
-
This just in...
Apparently the USBC Masters will use the doubles/singles pattern from the Open Championships meaning the best bowlers in the world will bowl at least 10 games on the pattern prior to Open Championship competition. Combine that with additional squads at the Bowlers Journal and these players will have significant knowledge of the pattern prior to competition so my question to the group is this:
The pattern isn't being released to "level the playing field" for those that do not have access to facilities were they can practice on the pattern, so does this sound fair to the 99% of Open Championship participants that are not in the elite?
Source?
If this is indeed true, then I don't see that this is a problem.
I say that, because the USBC Masters is a USBC tournament, not just a PBA tournament. So this means that any USBC member can bowl this.
If this were, say, the ToC or the World Championship (read: a PBA-only tournament), then yes, that would be a problem. However, I do see what you're getting at by some in the Open division (read: PBA bowlers) having the ability to be prepared for the the OC by bowling on the D/S pattern at Masters.
BL.
-
This just in...
Apparently the USBC Masters will use the doubles/singles pattern from the Open Championships meaning the best bowlers in the world will bowl at least 10 games on the pattern prior to Open Championship competition. Combine that with additional squads at the Bowlers Journal and these players will have significant knowledge of the pattern prior to competition so my question to the group is this:
The pattern isn't being released to "level the playing field" for those that do not have access to facilities were they can practice on the pattern, so does this sound fair to the 99% of Open Championship participants that are not in the elite?
Source?
If this is indeed true, then I don't see that this is a problem.
I say that, because the USBC Masters is a USBC tournament, not just a PBA tournament. So this means that any USBC member can bowl this.
If this were, say, the ToC or the World Championship (read: a PBA-only tournament), then yes, that would be a problem. However, I do see what you're getting at by some in the Open division (read: PBA bowlers) having the ability to be prepared for the the OC by bowling on the D/S pattern at Masters.
BL.
There isn't a single mention on the USBC site about this though.
The only place I can even find a mention of Oil Pattern is in the tournament rules the entire text is "The pattern will be posted at the tournament venue, no later than the start of the official
practice session. The pattern will be sport compliant. "
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/masters/2017/2017MastersRules.pdf (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/masters/2017/2017MastersRules.pdf)
I call bullshit on this one as just another attempt to get in a dig about USBC.
-
Rick Ramsey who runs the BTM posted this on Facebook...
A lot has been written and discussed about not disclosing the lane pattern before the 2017 USBC starts and I have a question about the fact USBC will use the doubles/singles pattern for an event other than the Championship tournament. They say that everyone coming to Las Vegas can bowl the BJ event but not everyone has the time necessary along with there are limited squads available on certain days and no squads on a few days. USBC points out that bowlers are only allowed to bowl 8 squads but seriously how many bowlers will be in town long enough to do that?? Sure, this prevents one of our events being contested on an open championship show which will not impact us and may even help increase our entries in The BTM events. What would happen if a very good attorney questioned the legality of their actions? What do you think?
We can always count on milorafferty to blindly defend the USBC, assuming it's true I'm sure you'll justify it like always.
-
Rick Ramsey who runs the BTM posted this on Facebook...
A lot has been written and discussed about not disclosing the lane pattern before the 2017 USBC starts and I have a question about the fact USBC will use the doubles/singles pattern for an event other than the Championship tournament. They say that everyone coming to Las Vegas can bowl the BJ event but not everyone has the time necessary along with there are limited squads available on certain days and no squads on a few days. USBC points out that bowlers are only allowed to bowl 8 squads but seriously how many bowlers will be in town long enough to do that?? Sure, this prevents one of our events being contested on an open championship show which will not impact us and may even help increase our entries in The BTM events. What would happen if a very good attorney questioned the legality of their actions? What do you think?
We can always count on milorafferty to blindly defend the USBC, assuming it's true I'm sure you'll justify it like always.
So you don't have a legitimate source showing the USBC Masters will be bowled in the Doubles/Singles shot?
Got it.
-
I find it interesting that many including Jeff Richgels replied to the post and no one disputed the information. The question still stands, if it's true is this fair?
-
I find it interesting that many including Jeff Richgels replied to the post and no one disputed the information. The question still stands, if it's true is this fair?
So no source is what you are saying?
We all know the BJI is bowled in the Doubles/Singles pattern. But you claimed the USBC Masters was as well. I see nothing in the "quote" you posted from Rick about the Masters.
Or was that just some bullshit you made up to support your agenda against USBC?
-
Membership has declined every year for decades, but I can't find a source for that on the USBC site either...but it's true.
-
Membership has declined every year for decades, but I can't find a source for that on the USBC site either...but it's true.
What dates are you bowling at the USBC Open Championships?
-
Membership has declined every year for decades, but I can't find a source for that on the USBC site either...but it's true.
Just admit it, you made it up.
Gee, would you look at that? I went to Bowl.com and it took all of 45 seconds to find how many teams have bowled the Open....since 1901.
http://www.bowl.com/Open_Championships/Open_Championships_Home/Past_Results_and_History/
-
Feel free to post links to membership counts by year....I can hardly wait!
-
Feel free to post links to membership counts by year....I can hardly wait!
I'm not Google and also I'm not that concerned about the history of USBC membership. Do your own homework.
But please remember,when you just make things up, those aren't actually facts...
Now, about that source that the USBC Masters will be bowled on the Doubles/Singles shot?
-
Feel free to post links to membership counts by year....I can hardly wait!
I'm not Google and also I'm not that concerned about the history of USBC membership. Do your own homework.
But please remember,when you just make things up, those aren't actually facts...
Now, about that source that the USBC Masters will be bowled on the Doubles/Singles shot?
Again, I really don't see the problem. If the Masters is a USBC tournament, there is no difference between that tournament any any other tournament the USBC operates. ANY USBC member can pay the registration fee and bowl on it (again, assuming that the above rumour is true).
So what is this 'unfair advantage' that the Elite in our sport would have?
BL.
-
Feel free to post links to membership counts by year....I can hardly wait!
I'm not Google and also I'm not that concerned about the history of USBC membership. Do your own homework.
But please remember,when you just make things up, those aren't actually facts...
Now, about that source that the USBC Masters will be bowled on the Doubles/Singles shot?
Again, I really don't see the problem. If the Masters is a USBC tournament, there is no difference between that tournament any any other tournament the USBC operates. ANY USBC member can pay the registration fee and bowl on it (again, assuming that the above rumour is true).
So what is this 'unfair advantage' that the Elite in our sport would have?
BL.
That question won't be answered of course, it doesn't fit the USBC is evil agenda.
-
Feel free to post links to membership counts by year....I can hardly wait!
I'm not Google and also I'm not that concerned about the history of USBC membership. Do your own homework.
But please remember,when you just make things up, those aren't actually facts...
Now, about that source that the USBC Masters will be bowled on the Doubles/Singles shot?
Again, I really don't see the problem. If the Masters is a USBC tournament, there is no difference between that tournament any any other tournament the USBC operates. ANY USBC member can pay the registration fee and bowl on it (again, assuming that the above rumour is true).
So what is this 'unfair advantage' that the Elite in our sport would have?
BL.
If they were truly trying to bring integrity back and level the field for all contestants, the first time anyone experienced the patterns would be when they take to the lanes for competition. No showcase lanes or Bowlers Journal squads, don't announce the pattern and no video (that still cracks me up lol). Good luck to all the donaters in the open division, the USBC really only cares about the elite in the sport, not the average member.
-
If they were truly trying to bring integrity back and level the field for all contestants, the first time anyone experienced the patterns would be when they take to the lanes for competition. No showcase lanes or Bowlers Journal squads, don't announce the pattern and no video (that still cracks me up lol). Good luck to all the donaters in the open division, the USBC really only cares about the elite in the sport, not the average member.
You're making too much of the specifics of the pattern. The Open Championships have been on medium length patterns (roughly 38'-41') forever. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Short Cheetah like patterns or longer Chameleon like patterns would be too much of a shock to the majority of participants. They generally require specialized equipment and knowledge of lane play that's beyond what most participants possess.
After you bowl Sport/PBA leagues and tournaments for a while, you realize a medium length pattern is basically a medium length pattern. Get the ball right, it doesn't recover. Tug it, and it's "exit stage left". I don't care if it's variations of past Open Championship patterns, US Open patterns, or USBC Masters patterns. While there are subtle differences, you attack all of them basically the same and fine tune based on what you're seeing real time.
The point of all this is that in reality, nobody has any automatic advantages or disadvantages. If you go to the championships without ever having bowled on a medium length sport pattern, or making the time and effort to first do the BJI, then buyer beware.
There is no reason to constantly whine about these things.
-
If they were truly trying to bring integrity back and level the field for all contestants, the first time anyone experienced the patterns would be when they take to the lanes for competition. No showcase lanes or Bowlers Journal squads, don't announce the pattern and no video (that still cracks me up lol). Good luck to all the donaters in the open division, the USBC really only cares about the elite in the sport, not the average member.
You're making too much of the specifics of the pattern. The Open Championships have been on medium length patterns (roughly 38'-41') forever. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Short Cheetah like patterns or longer Chameleon like patterns would be too much of a shock to the majority of participants. They generally require specialized equipment and knowledge of lane play that's beyond what most participants possess.
After you bowl Sport/PBA leagues and tournaments for a while, you realize a medium length pattern is basically a medium length pattern. Get the ball right, it doesn't recover. Tug it, and it's "exit stage left". I don't care if it's variations of past Open Championship patterns, US Open patterns, or USBC Masters patterns. While there are subtle differences, you attack all of them basically the same and fine tune based on what you're seeing real time.
The point of all this is that in reality, nobody has any automatic advantages or disadvantages. If you go to the championships without ever having bowled on a medium length sport pattern, or making the time and effort to first do the BJI, then buyer beware.
There is no reason to constantly whine about these things.
If there's no advantage to practicing on the pattern, then why did the USBC stste that as a reason for no longer releasing the pattern to make it fair to all participants?
-
And here's a quote from the USBC executive director himself speaking about scoring at team trials...
"The basic fact is, the more someone bowls on a pattern, the more they learn to react, the easier it becomes the next time they see it."
-
If there's no advantage to practicing on the pattern, then why did the USBC stste that as a reason for no longer releasing the pattern to make it fair to all participants?
I said there is no real advantage to practicing on the exact pattern. If it's medium length (which it almost certainly will be), you'll be fine if you have experience on these types of patterns at home. If you don't, no amount of graph knowledge is going to save you.
The USBC can try to keep the pattern a secret all they want. But after the first week, bowlers who participate early will be blogging their experience all over the internet. Everybody will generally know what it is.
Even bowling the BJI ahead of time doesn't guarantee anything. The BJI reserved lanes generally play a little different than what you see in the tournament.
Keeping the pattern secret is going to accomplish little, so I don't know why the USBC did this other than to give into complaints. That's what people do.
-
Some people would complain if they were the sole entrant in the tournament.
-
Some people would complain if they were the sole entrant in the tournament.
Yeah, there's no prize fund here! :)
-
And here's a quote from the USBC executive director himself speaking about scoring at team trials...
"The basic fact is, the more someone bowls on a pattern, the more they learn to react, the easier it becomes the next time they see it."
This is true. But the importance related the Open Championships are bowlers who regularly bowl sport patterns. Over time, they understand how different types of patterns (short, medium, long) play when they're fresh and how they typically break down.
So the only way to be absolutely "fair" would be to disqualify bowlers who are PBA members, College Team members, and/or any bowlers who participate in Sport leagues. In other words, identify any USBC bowler who has experience on anything other than THS conditions and put up a "Not Welcome" sign.
Is this what you would advocate?
-
Regardless of the specifics of the patterns I will be there June 24-25th to throw a few strikes, a few spares, and some splits mixed in at the worst possible time... It's what I do. ;)
-
Agree w/ notclay, regardless, I will be there July 3-4 to strike a little, shoot a majority of multiple pin spares, and enjoy our vacation in Vegas. The bowling is just a reason to take a trip in the summer with my dad. It's all about the experience and enjoyment for the majority of us who do not make a living bowling.
Should be fun and excited to see the new venue!
-
May 4-5. Couldn't get my own team. Was picked up by a big group off the sub board. BTW I like Reno. I am comfortable there, I like the stadium and that there are a lot of sights within walking distance.
You might be bowling with my group! We bowl May 4th and 5th, and our squad leaders always put together 6 or 8 teams.
-
Our group will be bowling May 26th and 26th, thereabouts! Should be fun!
Regardless of that evil USBC!! LOL!