BallReviews
General Category => PWBA => Topic started by: spencerwatts on July 04, 2017, 07:06:05 AM
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Does it appear that bowler interest in the PWBA is starting to wane?
In 2015, the first year, there was talk of capacity fields at each event. And the numbers appeared to be equally as strong, if not stronger, in 2016. But the field sizes are arguably lower in 2017.
Essentially, given the cash ratio is somewhere in the 2:1 range at most events, I don't see how those numbers justify any long-term viability and success. Eventually, the sponsors that the PWBA does have will demand a better return on investment.
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That's a valid question.
I see some factors causing issues like: Stefanie Johnson missed the first 2/3 of the year because she had another child.
Boomershine is in the same boat this year.
Who will it be next year?
The travel could be factored better. Example: Next year's schedule is out....starting in Vegas, then to Rohnert Park, down to LA, and then on to Reno for the Queens.
If you just take general routing and not the specific bowling alley, to get to each city from the next is a total of 23 hours of driving according to Google and covering almost 1550 miles.
However, if you change ONE thing...change the order of the California events. Start in Vegas, then to LA, then Rohnert Park, and ending in Reno....the total driving time is 14 hours and of 900 miles.
The order of the events adds 9 hours of driving and 650 miles. Doesn't seem like much and maybe it is not, but adding extra expenditures for those on tighter budgets is troublesome. If the bowler is not flying home in between events (why would you when you have to be back out there in 3 days) the travel schedule is adding hundreds if not thousands of dollars in expenditures just to get to each event.
I would not be surprised to see the entries low for the 2 California stops next year....I could see some ladies flying into Vegas for the first event, going home, and coming back in a few weeks for the Queens.
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It's not Sacramento it's Rhonert Park in the Santa Ross area which is father off the beaten path
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oh great, thanks. When I mapped it I thought Sacramento was the nearest "big city" so that is what I used......now that I am looking at it again, you are 100% correct.
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Q: Can the PWBA survive?
A: NO, they cannot.
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Speaking to the OPs statement on viability and funds, I just did the math from the last stop. Only 72 bowlers, 18 of which entered as a Non PWBA member which is $400...that's a total of $7200 in entries. The other 54 entries were PWBA members @ $300 per entry for a total of $16,200....combined that is $23,400 for entries.
Payouts for 1-32 were a combined $53,000.
Yes, I realize there are other revenue streams and entries are not the only thing...but considering you only had 52 PWBA members enter (I guess I expected more) and the entry fees versus the payout was almost $30,000 short prior to covering any other expenses....yikes.
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Q: Can the PWBA survive?
A: NO, they cannot.
I bet they could survive if they cheap'd out, like the PBA did, and only "broadcast" via that horrific venue, Xtra Frame. That way their costs would be maybe 1/4 - 1/2 of what they are on a national channel, like CBS Sports.
Right now, they're in the same boat as the PBA - can't get enough real sponsors to finance a true independent tour. But they'd probably get even less sponsors if they used Xtra Frame.
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CharlesT
The complaint going around now is the way the finals are done. Yes, the final tapings provide the ability to show the stepladder on TV....but for the leader who only has to win one match...when the finals of 3 or 4 events are taped at a future location, the leader who had a great look at the previous center now may have a completely different look. Center characteristics, surface differences, etc and the advantage someone had in one center is gone in another.
Stinks for someone to qualify #1 and then have to wait a month or more to bowl the finals at a completely different center.....but everyone acknolwedges the cost of taping the finals at every event is wayyyyyyyy too expensive.
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The problem isn't having kids or having to drive a few extra hours over 4 weeks for those that don't go home every week or how the tv shows are taped.
Only about half of the tournaments have a title sponsor. Once Chad's slush fund runs dry it will no longer exist.
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CharlesT
The complaint going around now is the way the finals are done. Yes, the final tapings provide the ability to show the stepladder on TV....but for the leader who only has to win one match...when the finals of 3 or 4 events are taped at a future location, the leader who had a great look at the previous center now may have a completely different look. Center characteristics, surface differences, etc and the advantage someone had in one center is gone in another.
Stinks for someone to qualify #1 and then have to wait a month or more to bowl the finals at a completely different center.....but everyone acknolwedges the cost of taping the finals at every event is wayyyyyyyy too expensive.
It's been that way for a long time now, though. Heck, it started back on ABC with the PBA in the 1960s. Up to that point, the leader after all the games were done won the money. Then, to make things exciting for TV, the winner was now the leading qualifier.
Yes, I know it has gotten so bad these days that, often, the leading qualifier now bowls the finals 4 weeks later on/in a completely different house and set of lanes. All for the sake of an audience (maybe TV, maybe not) that is almost non-existent. More's the pity.
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The problem isn't having kids or having to drive a few extra hours over 4 weeks for those that don't go home every week or how the tv shows are taped.
Totally agree. These are NOT the problem.
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I'd argue though that the PWBA right now offers a better product than the PBA . . they're just not good at marketing it.
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PWBA's best chance for long term survival is capitalizing on their international success by selling some tv programming to Poland, Malaysia, China, Singapore (etc)
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Nobody is being forced to participate and they know well before they enter the situation for the TV taping. Most of them have to be smart enough to realize this is not a sustainable model and they need to get a piece of the action while it's still around.
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It isn't the marketing that's the problem, it's the product.
No demand for it.
No demand = No sponsors = No money.
Once the funding dries up, the PWBA goes away.
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.... Most of them have to be smart enough to realize this is not a sustainable model and they need to get a piece of the action while it's still around.
Personally, I think this is the saddest part of this whole picture for the sport, for the women who chose this vocation/avocation/hobby and for the people like us, who appreciate the style, grace, tenacity and humanity of the women of the PWBA.
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They are creating a playing environment that is so difficult, that it has basically eliminated the marginal player...when they feel as if they have no chance they quit donating
The game/sport of bowling cannot seem to find a ground/condition between high scoring and absolutely, ridiculously impossible
I repped for Global at the first two stops (Rhonert & Sacramento) and the condition they provided at Rhonert may be one of the hardest shots I've ever seen...it got to a point that the 1-3 was almost out of play
Make em hard is one thing...embarrass half the field and you start losing bowlers
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I agree about the patterns being used. Should they be hard, yes, impossible no.
Many bowling fans don't tune in to see bowlers struggle, and don't understand patterns anyway. I would say 85 to 90 % don't, including most house bowlers. So, I don't see why the powers to be make these type decisions. Let them strike, the better bowlers or more talented will be on top anyway. Bowling needs bowlers that feel they can compete. If they don't get a hundred a tournament, this to, will get smaller or be completely gone in short order.
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The average bowler doesn't care to watch the elite struggle...they do that enough
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I would argue the USBC is doing the same thing with the Open Championships with respect to the difficulty of the patterns which will, to an even greater extent due to skill level, ultimately lose bowlers. The core problem in terms of having viable tours for men and women rests in the inability to grow membership, but apparently that's a job left solely to local associations which hasn't been working for decades.
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They are creating a playing environment that is so difficult, that it has basically eliminated the marginal player...when they feel as if they have no chance they quit donating
The game/sport of bowling cannot seem to find a ground/condition between high scoring and absolutely, ridiculously impossible
I repped for Global at the first two stops (Rhonert & Sacramento) and the condition they provided at Rhonert may be one of the hardest shots I've ever seen...it got to a point that the 1-3 was almost out of play
Make em hard is one thing...embarrass half the field and you start losing bowlers
+1 So true. I've noticed the same problem in some local tournaments offered in my area in NJ. Number of bowler entries drop when the shot is too easy and scoring pace is too high, they drop even more when they make it too difficult for your marginal bowler, myself included who wish not to donate knowing we don't have a palpable shot. It almost seems like a lose, lose situation.
Speaking of the PWBA Rohnert Park, CA stop, yeah you can tell something isn't right when the elite can shoot -172 to make the cashers round. Tough watching elite young bowlers like Renslow grind out to shoot a 200 game.
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I enjoyed working with Ms Renslow, as well as the other Global ladies those couple of weeks
Brutal what occurred with the lanes over 12 games
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They are creating a playing environment that is so difficult, that it has basically eliminated the marginal player...when they feel as if they have no chance they quit donating
The game/sport of bowling cannot seem to find a ground/condition between high scoring and absolutely, ridiculously impossible
I repped for Global at the first two stops (Rhonert & Sacramento) and the condition they provided at Rhonert may be one of the hardest shots I've ever seen...it got to a point that the 1-3 was almost out of play
Make em hard is one thing...embarrass half the field and you start losing bowlers
Thank you.
It has always been my contention that intentionally making the conditions harder was very counter productive to what they were trying to achieve.
Look, I know that technology has changed the game forever, and has allowed the players to exploit things in a way they never could before, but artificially making bowling hard in order to counteract that effect was not the way to go.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are ways to lower the scoring pace without making the game harder.
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I might sound harsh but the ladies tour died a long long time ago.
The "conditions" they have are tough, however, if the same was applied on the mens tour they find a way to make it work.
No offense, the pwba is and always has been a joke since women can compete on the mens tour and not reversed--- playing the gender card much?
I stand by the thought of eliminating all ball reps, player services, coaching etc from both bring what you have and no more drilling balls because you are " on staff".
Level the field on both sides since 99% of entrants are not the lucrative " staff palyers" on either tour and watch watch what happnes
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I dont see the tour being around much longer. Their fields are getting smaller and smaller. And I agree with some of the other posts about their patterns being very hard. I lke that they bowl at different venues like in years past. I dont like that everything is taped and not live. Also, the telecasts are very boring. No emotion or personalities while bowling. Makes it very hard to watch and stay interested.
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If someone doen't like women's bowling, then don't watch it. Looking at what recently happened on PBA with wolf pattern and Rhino Page and Chris Barnes throwing gutter balls - a difficult pattern on TV is going to be difficult. Nice to see them finding a way to make it work.
As far as women on PBA - they let women in after PWBA folded. Some women have won regional. Kelly Kulick has 1 PBA title, Liz Johnson made TV twice and, Clara Guerrero made TV once also.
So what does this show - that the absolute top women bowlers can be competitive on PBA level - yes. But it's not like going to have 30 women show up at PBA event. Make TV, win, then go across the stress to compete in there own event.
Allowing women into the PBA was a good gesture on part of PBA to do something for women's bowling after PWBA folded. They also had their womens series briefly, and it was nice to see making an effort to support women, w/o a woman's tour - although PBA has enough problems with just having a men's tour.
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People will not watch bowling unless it is fun to watch. The Oklahoma Open finals were not particularly fun to watch. While I get Marshall's idea of making it a shotmaking contest, sometimes you can go overboard. If par for bowling is 200, and the majority of them are shooting under that on tv, it's akin to making a golf course so tough that the pros are shooting bogey or double bogey all day long, and nobody wants to watch that. Even the elite are subject to the standard deviation of human accuracy, and the line is beginning to get crossed.
On the other hand, go back to the tv show that Learn shot that huge set or some of those shows in the 90s that were high scoring and tell me that wasn't fun to watch. Also tell me there wasn't shotmaking pressure. Miss one shot and you're done. You'd think they'd also understand that hitting the pocket doesn't qualify as a good shot. You may see bowlers act like they got robbed when they don't carry, they just knew it was close and were hoping it was going to be close enough. There's a physics reason for everything that happens in bowling, and I can tell you I know off my hand when something is close but might be a drive by 9, ring 10, or even something like a stone 7. I don't know what brutal patterns have to do with integrity. I know what they have to do with being boring as hell to watch though. You can't have the best in the world throwing gutter balls and shooting 150 and think that people are going to watch that for long.
However, I do think the stubborn traditionalists need to start thinking outside the box. That pattern wasn't conducive to a traditional bowling shot for many. At what point do you start throwing the ball straight at the 1-3 to hit the pocket and keep yourself out of trouble. I can sure shoot better than 150 throwing the ball straight, but it seems that throwing a traditional bowling shot is more important than knocking the pins down, and if it can't be done doing it the way you want to do it, well I guess 150 here I come. I actually like watching the women bowl, but watching the men is getting hard to do. They're all either pissy and negative or completely stoic. Nobody looks like they want to be there, and when you end up saying that Chris freaking Barnes is the most alive exciting guy on the show, actually acting happy, trying to smile, trying to relax, getting excited throwing strikes . . come on, that's when you know you've got issues.
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Sounds like some of you should go watch some wrasslin' instead of bowling.
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The reality is people just don't watch bowling. Period. The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.
An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal. How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means. They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling. And the talk about the pattern this and that. Most bowlers don't know that stuff. They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting. A lot less technical.
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The reality is people just don't watch bowling. Period. The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.
An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal. How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means. They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling. And the talk about the pattern this and that. Most bowlers don't know that stuff. They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting. A lot less technical.
This is the truth. Most people don't care about watching bowling. They don't care about patterns or what it takes to get to the pocket. So those people are out. Most viewers are also bowlers, and the majority are ones who are fairly serious about it. But of those, there are many who want excitement. Few people appreciate the grind. It's why people hated the trap in hockey. It's why many don't like watching soccer. Few enjoy a 3-0 football game... the list goes on.
When it comes down to it, many people are only entertained by action and excitement. Grind, strategy, etc. does not do it for these people. That's just the way it is. Bowling is always going to struggle for viewers. Nothing anyone can do about it unless you make massive changes to the game.
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Another issue is the varying channels bowling appears on
You have ESPN NBCsports & CBSsports
Many households barely have ESPN and the tines changes too much
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Someone will put it on YouTube a few days after it aires on cable tv.
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To be up front, I like the PWBA the way it is. Patterns are kinda brutal, but I enjoy watching the PWBA. Mens tour, not so much. But if we're trying to increase the viewer base, we have to make it more fun and accessible. Yeah maybe some wrasslin' is what it needs. Maybe seeing Rash give Belmo the Stone Cold stunner for crinkling a water bottle will increase viewers . . who knows. All I know is there's zero reason for the average person to watch, when 20 years ago it was pretty popular. May not have been huge, but it may just be one of those things that's really fun to do, but not fun to watch. Forcing something to work regardless of whether that's possible or not may just be a futile endeavor. I don't think they've done enough to even test that out though, you have two groups pulling in completely opposite directions. You have the purists on one hand like Marshall Kent who just want it as competitive and technical and brutal as possible, and on the other hand you have the majority of the viewer base who want it easy and accessible.
Bowling has to be the hardest sport on the planet to understand though, because to truly understand it, you almost need a degree in physics. It's not like handing someone a stick with a weird head on it and saying hit that white ball you can see to that flag you can see avoiding obstacles you can see and accounting for weather you can see and feel. Golf is a pretty simple and very intuitive game to play. Bowling fights a daily battle with people who don't understand things or understands them the opposite of how they really are, and that battle will never end. Golf is just a matter of doing, bowling has to be understood first, then there's the doing. Bowling is about like watching a chess match, and it will always be like a chess match because the really interesting critically important stuff is all in the players minds and completely invisible. To those that don't play or understand chess, you see guys moving some pieces around and then someone wins or loses. Boring as hell.
The key to enjoying bowling is interest in participation. Once you participate and start to understand, then you can enjoy watching. I guarantee none of us that actually watch bowling regularly got hooked on bowling by seeing it on tv, and then started playing. Most sports are like that, true, but I've never played football in my life and I still like watching it. Never played hockey, like watching that too. Bowling I could never enjoy watching without doing it. It's the doing that makes the watching interesting. So I feel like it stands to reason that you're not going to get viewers by trying crazy things with shows to get people to watch. You need to get them participating first, and the viewers will come from that. But if you're doing what the Chad and all these elite bowlers are doing by putting everything so far out of reach, you're driving away potential participants before they ever have a chance to enjoy it.
Main Event centers will do more for bowling than USBC and BPAA or the PBA or PWBA ever will, because they make it fun. I'm probably crazy, probably wrong, but these rabbits I chase take me to some pretty weird places. What the hell.
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Nah, the Chad shut that the hell down. I was told explicitly by the man himself that CBS Sports was in more homes than the internet. He very firmly believes the way to increase viewers is through obscure channels few people have. The YouTube route they used the first year I thought was pretty successful, and to your point, I watch 75% of the shows on YouTube because I don't have a dvr, and YouTube is everywhere you've got the computer and internet.
Someone will put it on YouTube a few days after it aires on cable tv.
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The reality is people just don't watch bowling. Period. The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.
An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal. How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means. They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling. And the talk about the pattern this and that. Most bowlers don't know that stuff. They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting. A lot less technical.
You do that and the purists get angry for it being "dumbed down".
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Bowling has to be the hardest sport on the planet to understand though, because to truly understand it, you almost need a degree in physics. It's not like handing someone a stick with a weird head on it and saying hit that white ball you can see to that flag you can see avoiding obstacles you can see and accounting for weather you can see and feel. Golf is a pretty simple and very intuitive game to play. Bowling fights a daily battle with people who don't understand things or understands them the opposite of how they really are, and that battle will never end. Golf is just a matter of doing, bowling has to be understood first, then there's the doing. Bowling is about like watching a chess match, and it will always be like a chess match because the really interesting critically important stuff is all in the players minds and completely invisible. To those that don't play or understand chess, you see guys moving some pieces around and then someone wins or loses. Boring as hell.
Thank you. I have always hated the comparison to golf for TV viewership. Yes, they are both individual, repetition sports. The comparisons end there.
Golf is an easy to watch and understand sport. Good shots are obvious. Bad shots are obvious. When a putt is hard, it's obvious. Even the untrained eye of my wife can see a putt be carried away by a hill. Watching golf is visual.
Bowling is the exact opposite. Strikes are the expectation, and they can be had with good shots and bad shots. Bad results aren't always due to bad shots. To a non-bowler, watching EJ Tackett struggle this week on TV was the result of him being a bad bowler (as noted by the, again, untrained eye of my wife). Of course he's not a bad bowler, but you can't see the obstacles in bowling and most have no idea that there is even oil on the lane. Watching bowling is mental, you have to understand it to enjoy it.
I compare bowling much more to watching something like cycling on TV. Cyclists have strategies they use in a race, but I couldn't tell you any of them and I wouldn't notice a good move watching it by myself. Therefore, I don't watch it.
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The purists could all quit bowling and it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket though, but of course you know that. Quite ironic that the people who care about "bowling" the most are the ones killing it.
The reality is people just don't watch bowling. Period. The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.
An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal. How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means. They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling. And the talk about the pattern this and that. Most bowlers don't know that stuff. They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting. A lot less technical.
You do that and the purists get angry for it being "dumbed down".
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Luke Rosdahl, Well said!!!!
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Part of the problem is not all ladies bowl the entire PWBA summer season. Alot of ladies bowl for their home countries. They bowl in events during this time.
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The purist can be angry, but they will still watch. Just like they bitch non stop on golfwrx about Johnny Miller and other announcers, but they still watch.
When I was flipping through channels and came to America's Cup within 10 minutes of watching they were describing why the boat was up in the air and why the grinders were going nonstop. Otherwise I'd be sitting there going wtf are they doing.
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The PBA needs more PDW if hes on a show I am watching .The Main event shows are terrible.25 people in the crowd afraid to make a sound.The bowlers didn't act like they even cared to be there.
Hell for 30 grand I am ready to rip your throat out.I like the days of old none of this high five crap after every pitch.Guys with the gay ass hugs after a match.Its a payday and I taking it from you is my approach.
Luke mentioned Chris Barnes I cant stand the arrogant guy.I watch him to watch him choke.Guy thinks he never throws a bad shot.Boring is his middle name.I dont understand when Microsoft bought the PBA they were telling PDW do whatever to create some excitement.He did just that for years he was always doing something that was talked about.
Someone needs to build a fire under these guys asses.Watch old shows of Marshall Holman you think hes going to hug you after he kicks your ass.The PBA needs some more like PDW.If I had the talent of Jesper almost unbeatable when hes lined up.I would be talking so much smack nobody would want to bowl me.Excuse my french but the PBA has become Pu...fied.
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Bowling in a nutshell...take golf, how would you explain to a person void of sight, wind or rain?
All while playing the game in front of them, in which they are unable to see?
This would be comparable to explaining bowling and ball motion to a layperson.
Another example would be playing tennis, with needing to hit a tennis ball inside lines that are constantly moving & changing, on every hit of the tennis ball; along with the player being unable to see the lines.
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This just popped on in my facebook feed: https://www.facebook.com/OuterRimProductions/videos/10155508306239660/
So about those major changes...
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Well stated Luke. I have said it before and I will say it now. The only problem with Bowling is the bowlers
The purists could all quit bowling and it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket though, but of course you know that. Quite ironic that the people who care about "bowling" the most are the ones killing it.
The reality is people just don't watch bowling. Period. The scores being high or low is just an excuse one way or the other.
An for the average person to try and sit and watch has to brutal. How does the person flipping the channel supposed to know what "off the spot" means. They do a terrible job explaining the game to a viewer that might not know anything about bowling. And the talk about the pattern this and that. Most bowlers don't know that stuff. They need to dumb it down a little without it being insulting. A lot less technical.
You do that and the purists get angry for it being "dumbed down".
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Haha American Ninja Bowling see how easy bowling is a Ninja 300.
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Nah, the Chad shut that the hell down. I was told explicitly by the man himself that CBS Sports was in more homes than the internet. He very firmly believes the way to increase viewers is through obscure channels few people have. The YouTube route they used the first year I thought was pretty successful, and to your point, I watch 75% of the shows on YouTube because I don't have a dvr, and YouTube is everywhere you've got the computer and internet.
Someone will put it on YouTube a few days after it aires on cable tv.
Chad is a genius...just ask him
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Speaking to the OPs statement on viability and funds, I just did the math from the last stop. Only 72 bowlers, 18 of which entered as a Non PWBA member which is $400...that's a total of $7200 in entries. The other 54 entries were PWBA members @ $300 per entry for a total of $16,200....combined that is $23,400 for entries.
At least the college programs seem to have helped...I remember an event in the prior incarnation where we had a TOTAL of 32 entries...and that was a national stop.
As to the chicken/egg argument of marketing/product/demand, there is a delicate balance in there that has to be maintained and that IS NOT being maintained. While it is correct that there is not a lot of demand/interest in the PWBA, neither is there much for the PBA. It is up to the marketing arm to chum the waters and make that interest, and once that is actually occurring, then sponsors return to the equation.
I remember trying to bring a non-registered company into the equipment mix and there were so many obstacles that got thrown up that the equipment manufacturer decided it was not worth their effort, not even to register for the regional level. My guess is that things have not changed much since the last time the PWBA folded (2003).
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All of the other stuff aside, did anyone catch the PWBA Regional this past weekend in New Jersey (Sunday only). 8 games of qualifying in the AM, cut to the top 1 in 3 based on entries for match play in the PM.
Total of 20 entries (more than I expected) so the cut was to 6 after 8 games. 6th place was under for the block.
Out of the 20 entries, only 2 PWBA regulars (CDB and Kuhlkin). The other 18 entries were all non-PWBA members.
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I watched the Detroit open and I was more into it than the bullshot that the PBA is doing now. I'll watch the women all day long. They look like they actually want to be there.
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I watched the PWBA Detroit and I totally agree! Watching them on XP and in person, you can tell that they really want to me there. The PWBA is doing things the right way. The PWBA players are easy to talk with and you can tell that they enjoy the people that come to watch them
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I agree that the women are MUCH more approachable and seem like they want to be there rather than the "I have to be here" or the "I have to meet these requirements to be here" attitude you get from some of the PBA guys.
I was in Rochester for the PWBA stop and not once did I see or hear a lady turn down or be rude to any spectator.
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Rochester, I was there also!!! I had a number of the ladies, come to me and thank me for watching them and supporting the PWBA. The entire PWBA staff was so nice!
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I will be at pretty much every stop next year. I am sponsoring a lady for next season (the full national PWBA tour) and we decided to get her feet wet this year with this one stop before diving head first into next season. Probably going to be bowling a few of the upcoming regionals this year as well.
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WOWZERS, good luck out there!! As you know it is tough out there. I know a number of the ladies and they have a hard time even cashing.
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Yep I agree. There are mitigating circumstances around the reason to do this which is much greater than the cost to put her (and me going with her) on tour for the season.
I am doing this as a sponsorship for her and we are not splitting any of her winnings (if she ever cashes) as she will receive everything. Not doing this thinking I am going to get rich....heck, no matter how well she does I get zero back.
She has enough talent to cash, just a matter of putting together 2 good blocks with the mitigating circumstances she has.
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I was out in Rochester also and practically anyone I had the chance to talk to was very approachable and appreciated the support. It's tough to cash on the tour and they've been using some tough patterns which I totally respect them doing. At the same time, there is so much talent out there now on the women's tour that you have to be on the A game 100% of the time. Totally love that.
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All of the other stuff aside, did anyone catch the PWBA Regional this past weekend in New Jersey (Sunday only). 8 games of qualifying in the AM, cut to the top 1 in 3 based on entries for match play in the PM.
Total of 20 entries (more than I expected) so the cut was to 6 after 8 games. 6th place was under for the block.
Out of the 20 entries, only 2 PWBA regulars (CDB and Kuhlkin). The other 18 entries were all non-PWBA members.
I had no idea. I wish someone would publicize these other than the PWBA web site. I don't always look there for such. I live in NJ and would have loved to see it.
Actually I can't even find regionals on the PWBA web site, unless I missed it somewhere.
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Click on tournaments and then down near the bottom.
They are also listed on the PBA website.
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http://pwba.com/Tournaments/Regional-events
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To the OP,
I hope so! I enjoy watching the style of some of these fantastic Woman bowlers.
Of course I miss...the powerhouse from NY before the dissolution of their tour???? Ummmm..
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Lucky, do you mean Michelle Feldman?
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Since posting this, I've looked at a lot of women's bowling shows that were once aired on ESPN back in the late 1980s through early 1990s and entries back then were similar, being in the 75-85 range in non-majors. The cash ratio back then was more like the men at 3:1.
I suppose 2018 will be a critical season for the current PWBA's future.
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I think they need to get some stronger sponsorship to increase the prize fund, it cost a lot of money for these woman to travel all over the country. I know its not the same size as the PBA and wont be close to their prize fund, but the PWBA needs to find some sponsors to dish out some big money for the prize fund.
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It's still around? 😉
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I'm fairly certain if they or any other entity could garner better sponsors I'm sure they would...i.e. there's none around
The men's & women's tours are currently backed by USBC & BPAA...what does that tell you
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Sad thing is the PBA50 is what should be being promoted some.Right now the 5 greatest bowlers of all time are making for great shows.The latest with PDW getting his 100th title one of the best finals I have ever watched.Sure glad for YOUTUBE.If anybody has not watched it they need to.I think the sports networks have missed the boat on not showing The PBA 50.Amazing how these guys have stood the test of time thru all the different era's of bowling.
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Sad thing is the PBA50 is what should be being promoted some.Right now the 5 greatest bowlers of all time are making for great shows.The latest with PDW getting his 100th title one of the best finals I have ever watched.Sure glad for YOUTUBE.If anybody has not watched it they need to.I think the sports networks have missed the boat on not showing The PBA 50.Amazing how these guys have stood the test of time thru all the different era's of bowling.
Yep in here a few years even more greats will be eligible like Chris Barnes. Stacked roster for years to come.
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I'm fairly certain if they or any other entity could garner better sponsors I'm sure they would...i.e. there's none around
The men's & women's tours are currently backed by USBC & BPAA...what does that tell you
That they're up crap's creek without an oar or a tiller?
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Sad thing is the PBA50 is what should be being promoted some.Right now the 5 greatest bowlers of all time are making for great shows.The latest with PDW getting his 100th title one of the best finals I have ever watched.Sure glad for YOUTUBE.If anybody has not watched it they need to.I think the sports networks have missed the boat on not showing The PBA 50.Amazing how these guys have stood the test of time thru all the different era's of bowling.
That makes me wonder about the PBA50.
Given how so many PBA bowlers, who have in recent years turned 50 to be able to compete in the PBA50 tournaments, are guys who have been winning on the regular PBA tour (PDW, WRW, Norm Duke), I wonder if the PBA shouldn't make the PBA50 oil patterns harder, closer to the one we see on the PWBA shows.
(PWBA patterns seem to be a lot harder than PBA patterns, to my eyes.)
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What do they need to be harder? What exactly does that prove? You take away the pocket, which many of the PWBA events did, you start eliminating skill
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Being in person at the Rochester NY PWBA stop, the pattern looked stupid tough. I watched Diana Z throw her first practice shot on Thursday nite and turn around to her friends with as big of a wide eye look as I have ever seen. She and some others basically take a benchmark type ball and just slow hook it through the middle to see what the ball does coming off the end of the pattern...the ball went 58 feet and she was astonished.
The lady I sponsored is very interested, just as I am, in seeing what the pattern really was once the Rochester TV show airs (still wondering why the PWBA has decided to withhold releasing this pattern but yet every other pattern has been released, even before the TV show airs...heck, some of the patterns were released during the tournament.....).
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I repped for Global for the 1st two stops...the first was ridiculous what they put out in relationship to the amt of games and the topography of the center...the second stop they played different every time the reoiled...
They've stopped taking topography into consideration so good luck on what they get...also would hate being a male left hander trying to compete...they're an afterthought
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I agree with Just Rico. What they did with the PWBA patterns this year made it look as though many of the women didn't know what was going on. If they continue with the harder to score patterns, the women who don't have ball company support will give up and they will be right back where they were when the tour failed before. Let them score and not just by throwing hard and straight.
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What do they need to be harder? What exactly does that prove? You take away the pocket, which many of the PWBA events did, you start eliminating skill
Harder because it seems too easy for people like PDW, WRW and Duke to win.
I don't mean to make it impossible, just not as easy as it seems to be sometimes.
Maybe the age to compete needs to moved to 60, instead of 50 and let the superstars stay a little longer with the PBA???
It almost seems unfair to let PDW, WRW and Duke compete against the other seniors.
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That's such s flawed statement...too easy for the ones winning...maybe they're just better...
That's comical...why don't you just say why don't they figure out a way to shut them out
THEY ARE BETTER THUS THEY WIN
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I repped for Global for the 1st two stops...the first was ridiculous what they put out in relationship to the amt of games and the topography of the center...the second stop they played different every time the reoiled...
They've stopped taking topography into consideration so good luck on what they get...also would hate being a male left hander trying to compete...they're an afterthought
It just goes to show how wicked good Shannon Pluhowsky is since she's the only lefty to consistently make the cut and cash in majority of the stops...but I see what you mean, unless you're an exceptional lefty you might as well go home.
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What do they need to be harder? What exactly does that prove? You take away the pocket, which many of the PWBA events did, you start eliminating skill
Harder because it seems too easy for people like PDW, WRW and Duke to win.
I don't mean to make it impossible, just not as easy as it seems to be sometimes.
Maybe the age to compete needs to moved to 60, instead of 50 and let the superstars stay a little longer with the PBA???
It almost seems unfair to let PDW, WRW and Duke compete against the other seniors.
This is a splendid idea, the NBA shouldve made Micheal Jordan play with one hand behind his back, it was just too easy for him.
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Let's Tiger-proof the tour...what could go wrong...
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Not sure how it's fair for the 40-50 crowd to have to bowl against the Belmos and EJ Tacketts of the world either . . bottom line is everyone had their prime. You can only level the playing field so much, and I really don't think it has to be level or even, just has to be fair. If it's fair, not much more you can do.
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That makes me wonder about the PBA50.
Given how so many PBA bowlers, who have in recent years turned 50 to be able to compete in the PBA50 tournaments, are guys who have been winning on the regular PBA tour (PDW, WRW, Norm Duke), I wonder if the PBA shouldn't make the PBA50 oil patterns harder, closer to the one we see on the PWBA shows.
(PWBA patterns seem to be a lot harder than PBA patterns, to my eyes.)
Not all PBA50 stops are created equal. The three June Las Vegas tournaments are no cake walk. The Senior US Open in particular is brutal. It's not a coincidence that every year the first cut to match play is dominated by former PBA national champions and guys who dominated at the Regional level.
The irony is that the "easier" conditions can sometimes give the bread-and-butter guys a better chance. I just got back from the PBA60 stop in Indiana, and some of the name guys you'd automatically expect to advance didn't make the cut to match play. It wasn't a walled house shot by any stretch, but it wasn't the US Open either.
In any case, part of the allure to me to compete against the likes of Williams and Duke is that they are the best. It's the dream of having a great few days and advancing with those guys. Even though the dream doesn't come true very often. ;D
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Let's Tiger-proof the tour...what could go wrong...
What do they need to be harder? What exactly does that prove? You take away the pocket, which many of the PWBA events did, you start eliminating skill
Harder because it seems too easy for people like PDW, WRW and Duke to win.
I don't mean to make it impossible, just not as easy as it seems to be sometimes.
Maybe the age to compete needs to moved to 60, instead of 50 and let the superstars stay a little longer with the PBA???
It almost seems unfair to let PDW, WRW and Duke compete against the other seniors.
This is a splendid idea, the NBA should've made Micheal Jordan play with one hand behind his back, it was just too easy for him.
I never mentioned handicapping one player.