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General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: giddyupddp on October 21, 2017, 10:38:39 AM

Title: Why?
Post by: giddyupddp on October 21, 2017, 10:38:39 AM
Why Hold the tournament is the same location over and over?
2018 - Syracuse, N.Y.
2019 - Las Vegas
2020 - Reno, Nev.
2021 - Las Vegas
2022 - TBD
2023 - Reno, Nev.
2024 - Las Vegas
2025 - Baton Rouge, La.
2026 - Reno, Nev.

And the 2 places not in Nevada are Syracuse and Baton Rouge, now those are some great vacation destinations.

I live in CT and have no interest in going to Syracuse even being able to drive there and I can't think of any reason to go to Baton Rouge. I used to go to Reno (6 times), once to Vegas, and once to Albuquerque.

To me I love Reno but convincing teammates to go became impossible. Vegas was fun but not a trip that is for everyone and most who like it have gone number of times and IMO its a done that type of trip. Albuquerque was a lot of fun going to a place never been and visiting around New Mexico was a blast. I think its shortsighted not to move the tournament to other cities that bowlers could/would like to make a vacation out of the trip. Bowlers come from every state yet this tournament is held in Nevada and a few other non destination cities. How about CA? FL? TX? etc. There are a lot of great places to visit in the US and Syracuse or Baton Rogue don't often make those lists.....

Just my $0.02
Former Open Bowler
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: charlest on October 21, 2017, 10:52:04 AM
This was rehashed a few years ago, but I assume the reasons remain the same. I also object to going to Las Vegas and Reno so often. Bowlers don't all live on the West Coast.

Among the problems is finding a venue that can support thousands of bowlers (48 lanes minimum) for 6 full months, for almost 18 hours a day.  No normal house can afford to do that. I think that is the biggest problem. Then there has to be decent hotels and motels to accomodate all those people. (I drove to Syracuse last time, 1999, very convenient for me, but the hotel sucked.)

All this has to be done years in advance to fulfill all the administrative requirements.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: HackJandy on October 21, 2017, 11:23:25 AM
At least when the east coast crowd travels west they don't lose the whole day to time zones like what would happen if I travel to Syracuse.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: charlest on October 21, 2017, 01:41:10 PM
At least when the east coast crowd travels west they don't lose the whole day to time zones like what would happen if I travel to Syracuse.

Trivial loss compared to time and price of a 1 - 2 layover airplane trip to Vegas vs. a 5 hour car trip to Syracuse. Not a whole day but 3 hours. what you gain  in one direction, you lose in the other - equal tradeoff.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: leftybowler70 on October 21, 2017, 03:07:35 PM
Without question, trip isn't worth it to me either.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: charlest on October 21, 2017, 03:32:57 PM
Without question, trip isn't worth it to me either.


To be perfectly honest, when they started to schedule all the Nationals in either Reno or Vegas, I got royally pissed off. To me, it was the USBC saying, OUT LOUD, "F*ck every bowler in the East and the Southeast. If they want to bowl, let them pay through the nose with money and time. We don't give a sh*t about them."
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: Luke Rosdahl on October 21, 2017, 04:28:28 PM
It's 100% cost.  To rent a convention center for 4 solid months and put up all that equipment and all the lanes and create what they do, that's a TON of money, much more than they pay for the NBS and South Pointe. 
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: giddyupddp on October 21, 2017, 05:20:30 PM
It's 100% cost.  To rent a convention center for 4 solid months and put up all that equipment and all the lanes and create what they do, that's a TON of money, much more than they pay for the NBS and South Pointe.

Cost is understandable but the times they do leave Nevada they go to Syracuse and Baton Rogue? Neither speak to me as places I really want to use my vacation days..... I'm sure they are nice enough but they teams I use to go with wanted to make a trip out of the tournament not just bowl.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: Pinbuster on October 21, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
They have gotten in a catch 22.

Bigger cities don't care about a 6 month convention with 40K to 50K attendees. They are unwilling to tie up a convention center for that amount of time.

Smaller cities can't compete because of hotel space, restaurants, airport, etc. and they can't give the USBC enough money and tax breaks.

So you end up with a handful of mid sized cities willing to put up with it and pay for it. Ones that have put on the tournament before know the benefit and may bid again.

As Luke said USBC is going to Reno and Vegas for cost and ease of operation. There was a proposal in Orlando 10 or 15 years ago to build a facility but it fell through. Or we would be going to Reno, Orlando all the time.

I don't mind Vegas. Lots of flights, easy connections, plenty of different things to do. Reno is another story all together.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: billdozer on October 21, 2017, 06:58:14 PM
To me going every year...

Reno is boring...
Vegas is now too expensive...

I enjoy the one offs

Baton rogue was neat
El Paso was fun
Going to enjoy Syracuse...I'm driving for once...

They need to mix it up...or have two separate ones. Like keep Reno going her around...and have another that goes to different city each year.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 21, 2017, 07:23:20 PM
You can only go where you are wanted. If cities don't submit bids you end up in Reno and Vegas where it is wanted. There were a bunch of cities in the 90's that we went to that were new convention centers. Once they start scheduling events that want to come back every year they no longer are interested in an event that ties up their convention center for 6 months.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: bradl on October 24, 2017, 01:23:11 AM

The other thing about Las Vegas, is that there is at least one nonstop flight to Las Vegas from almost every major city. That is airline independent, meaning that one or more airline may have a nonstop flight there. Also, depending on International destination, there may be an international nonstop directly to Vegas as well. Dusseldorf, London, Dublin, Reykjavik, Vancouver, Toronto, Winnipeg, Paris, Manchester, Seoul, and Zurich all have nonstops. And seeing that some international bowlers are bowling Nats, it's an easy destination for them to get to.

BL.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: AlonzoHarris on October 24, 2017, 03:16:54 PM
I get the Vegas & Reno thing to an extent. I would like to see a rotation more similar to Vegas - Random - Reno - Random- Vegas..so on and so forth. I would love to see them get something in the Carolina's, Ohio (Columbus Airport)/Indiana (Indianapolis airport) Washington(Seattle Airport)/Oregon(Portland Airport). Variety would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 24, 2017, 04:01:15 PM
It's not as simple as the USBC saying we want to go to Columbus or Indianapolis.  The facilities that are capable of hosting don't want such an event.  They are much better off from a business perspective hosting 20 events over 6 months that return every year than hosting one event for 6 months and telling their yearly customers they have to find an alternate location and hoping they return. 
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 24, 2017, 04:16:59 PM
Perhaps some of the large cities in the east should step up to the plate. Reno did and built a bowling palace. In Vegas, South Point put their money where their mouth is and built a venue for bowling. There was once rumors that Orlando was going to do the same, but I guess it fell through.

Chicago, New York, Houston and Atlanta are all large enough and with enough convention traffic to support such a venue.

And the facility doesn't even have to be a uni-tasker like Reno and South Point have. Build the bowling alley with the ball returns and have a removable floor that covers it when not being used, like Boston Gardens, Staples Center in LA, Verizon Center in Washington etc. Those facilities are used for both basketball and Ice Hockey and can be changed from one to the other in a matter of hours.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: HackJandy on October 24, 2017, 04:23:45 PM
Perhaps some of the large cities in the east should step up to the plate. Reno did and built a bowling palace. In Vegas, South Point put their money where their mouth is and built a venue for bowling. There was once rumors that Orlando was going to do the same, but I guess it fell through.

Chicago, New York, Houston and Atlanta are all large enough and with enough convention traffic to support such a venue.

And the facility doesn't even have to be a uni-tasker like Reno and South Point have. Build the bowling alley with the ball returns and have a removable floor that covers it when not being used, like Boston Gardens, Staples Center in LA, Verizon Center in Washington etc. Those facilities are used for both basketball and Ice Hockey and can be changed from one to the other in a matter of hours.

Why?  Bowling is dying (at least in US).  Probably won't completely die but don't see it growing any time soon and so spending large amounts of money on it is probably a fool's errand much as I would love what you are saying to happen.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 24, 2017, 04:34:37 PM


Why?  Bowling is dying.  Probably won't completely die but don't see it growing any time soon and so spending large amounts of money on it is probably a fool's errand much as I would love what you are saying to happen.

I tend to agree with you. When I look around at league, I see mostly people older than me, rather than younger(I'm 55). That's a sure sign that the sport is dying.

Another example is tournaments. The CA USBC Open tournament has  around 500 teams. This past weekend I bowled in the CA Seniors tournament which is for 50 and older only. There are 485 entries, which is typical for the Seniors. Of course, this is just numbers from California, but I suspect it's similar across the country.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 24, 2017, 04:37:10 PM
80-100k visitors spread out over 6 months isn't enough bodies to get big cities even interested, never mind build a facility.  If it was financially feasible it would have already been done.

Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 24, 2017, 04:41:48 PM
80-100k visitors spread out over 6 months isn't enough bodies to get big cities even interested, never mind build a facility.  If it was financially feasible it would have already been done.



Agreed, but haven't you been reading here? The only reason more people don't bowl the Open is because it's in Reno/Vegas every year.  ::)   ;D


Yea, I'm expecting at least 200K teams in Syracuse this year. Otherwise some people might look foolish...  :o
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 24, 2017, 05:26:22 PM
Well, I've been to Syracuse and I've probably been to Las Vegas 100 times.  And I'd go to Las Vegas for another 100 visits before I go back to Syracuse.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: Pinbuster on October 24, 2017, 05:28:44 PM
I much preferred bowling the tournament when it was in a different city each year.

However I understand what has happened.

I'm amazed that they can still get 8000+ teams anywhere given the current level of membership.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 24, 2017, 06:02:20 PM
I wish it was back to the "different city" every year routine myself. I wasn't bowling the last time it was in Syracuse, but I'm going this year.

Reno for me is a day trip, so I'm tired of going there all the time for the Open myself. I can handle Vegas more, although I bowl there multiple times a year even when the tournament isn't in town.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 24, 2017, 06:18:39 PM
Maybe with the 2022 TBD you can go to some resort destination like Toledo, Tulsa or Huntsville or just pick your favorite fly-over state. 
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 24, 2017, 06:22:50 PM
Maybe with the 2022 TBD you can go to some resort destination like Toledo, Tulsa or Huntsville or just pick your favorite fly-over state. 

I'm thinking we have a different definition of "resort destination".  ::)
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: AlonzoHarris on October 24, 2017, 07:01:24 PM
Maybe with the 2022 TBD you can go to some resort destination like Toledo, Tulsa or Huntsville or just pick your favorite fly-over state.

Toledo 😂😂
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: AlonzoHarris on October 25, 2017, 11:00:55 AM
Would Honolulu sound more attractive and a resort destination?
Bowl and then sip sweet coconut / passion fruit cocktails at Dukes Bare Foot Bar and then work on your tan on Wikiki Beach. Then go long boarding on 1/2 mile long gentle waves and diving in the afternoon.
Just kidding.

Vegas is easy to repeat over and over and is a bowling town. There must be over 600 lanes alone in the city limits.
There are really cheap vacation packages available with air, hotel and food in 3 and 5 day increments. Easy to drive to and fly to, plenty of parking. More places to eat than you can ever make it to. And one of the entertainment capitals in  the world.

Then you have gaming regulated by the Nevada Gaming Commission with complimentary cocktails or beer.

At least with Las Vegas and Reno, you know what to expect. Seems it would be really expensive for me to visit Syracuse or Baton Rouge from So Cal.

On a side note, about 3 years ago the USBC had the Junior Golds in Detroit to help support the bankrupt city. Kids in my area fund raised for 6 months to pay for the trip raising about 1K for them and a parent to go. The trip was at peak travel and even 2 greyhound bus tickets and 5 nights in a motel plus food was about 2K total and 11 days time.

Ya I definitely understand the Vegas/Reno sites.

Likewise if they had it in California. I'm in Ohio, so this time Syracuse is a drive-able location. Just seems like they could show the East coast some more love.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 25, 2017, 11:31:21 AM
Would Honolulu sound more attractive and a resort destination?
Bowl and then sip sweet coconut / passion fruit cocktails at Dukes Bare Foot Bar and then work on your tan on Wikiki Beach. Then go long boarding on 1/2 mile long gentle waves and diving in the afternoon.
Just kidding.

Vegas is easy to repeat over and over and is a bowling town. There must be over 600 lanes alone in the city limits.
There are really cheap vacation packages available with air, hotel and food in 3 and 5 day increments. Easy to drive to and fly to, plenty of parking. More places to eat than you can ever make it to. And one of the entertainment capitals in  the world.

Then you have gaming regulated by the Nevada Gaming Commission with complimentary cocktails or beer.

At least with Las Vegas and Reno, you know what to expect. Seems it would be really expensive for me to visit Syracuse or Baton Rouge from So Cal.

On a side note, about 3 years ago the USBC had the Junior Golds in Detroit to help support the bankrupt city. Kids in my area fund raised for 6 months to pay for the trip raising about 1K for them and a parent to go. The trip was at peak travel and even 2 greyhound bus tickets and 5 nights in a motel plus food was about 2K total and 11 days time.

Ya I definitely understand the Vegas/Reno sites.

Likewise if they had it in California. I'm in Ohio, so this time Syracuse is a drive-able location. Just seems like they could show the East coast some more love.

"They" who?

USBC wants to have the tournament in the East. The best deal they could find was Syracuse. USBC has some warts, but this issue isn't one they have control over. As said before, "You can only go where you are wanted"
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: AlonzoHarris on October 25, 2017, 12:14:14 PM
Would Honolulu sound more attractive and a resort destination?
Bowl and then sip sweet coconut / passion fruit cocktails at Dukes Bare Foot Bar and then work on your tan on Wikiki Beach. Then go long boarding on 1/2 mile long gentle waves and diving in the afternoon.
Just kidding.

Vegas is easy to repeat over and over and is a bowling town. There must be over 600 lanes alone in the city limits.
There are really cheap vacation packages available with air, hotel and food in 3 and 5 day increments. Easy to drive to and fly to, plenty of parking. More places to eat than you can ever make it to. And one of the entertainment capitals in  the world.

Then you have gaming regulated by the Nevada Gaming Commission with complimentary cocktails or beer.

At least with Las Vegas and Reno, you know what to expect. Seems it would be really expensive for me to visit Syracuse or Baton Rouge from So Cal.

On a side note, about 3 years ago the USBC had the Junior Golds in Detroit to help support the bankrupt city. Kids in my area fund raised for 6 months to pay for the trip raising about 1K for them and a parent to go. The trip was at peak travel and even 2 greyhound bus tickets and 5 nights in a motel plus food was about 2K total and 11 days time.

Ya I definitely understand the Vegas/Reno sites.

Likewise if they had it in California. I'm in Ohio, so this time Syracuse is a drive-able location. Just seems like they could show the East coast some more love.

"They" who?

USBC wants to have the tournament in the East. The best deal they could find was Syracuse. USBC has some warts, but this issue isn't one they have control over. As said before, "You can only go where you are wanted"

Right, definitely didn't intend to over simplify the site choice process.

Let's get a country singer to make a song about bowling and we can all go to Nashville!
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 25, 2017, 12:37:04 PM
The last thing Nashville needs is a reason to up room prices. 
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 25, 2017, 01:17:30 PM
The last thing Nashville needs is a reason to up room prices. 

Come on now, you should consider MY needs here. My parents live in Alabama, south of Huntsville. I wouldn't have to get a hotel.  ;D


Of course, Huntsville would be an even better choice.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: AlonzoHarris on October 25, 2017, 03:15:19 PM
The last thing Nashville needs is a reason to up room prices. 

Come on now, you should consider MY needs here. My parents live in Alabama, south of Huntsville. I wouldn't have to get a hotel.  ;D


Of course, Huntsville would be an even better choice.

I mean, we need an airport...
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: milorafferty on October 25, 2017, 03:25:10 PM
Huntsville has an airport, which they gratuitously refer to as Huntsville "International" airport.  ::)


But more important, my parents have a spare bedroom I can use.  ;D
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: itsallaboutme on October 25, 2017, 04:52:39 PM
They also have US Space and Rocket Center.  That along with the story of smuggling a pitcher of beer out of a restaurant are the only things memorable from a trip to Nationals there. 
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: avabob on October 26, 2017, 01:59:10 PM
Been to Huntsville, OK City, Syracuse, Jacksonville, Dayton, St Louis, Baton Rouge, Niagra Falls, Billings, Nixville, Albuquerque, and maybe a couple of others I forgot. 
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: lefty50 on October 26, 2017, 02:12:35 PM
HOw many times have we had this discussion? A city has to bid on the tournament, and locking up a resource for that long, plus everything that goes with it, makes it tough to do without a dedicated site. I came back from Disney World just last night, and was thinking every day how great it would be if the FL deal had gone thru and we could go there every 3rd year or so...
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: j1kjvan on October 26, 2017, 05:23:04 PM
We had the Open in Albuquerque in 2000 and 2008. The USBC wanted to come in 2016, but the casinos did not want to pony up the $250,000 added which is paid to the USBC over 6 or 7 years. 

The president of our board went to the casinos and stated that they did not need to know if the casinos made a profit, but wanted to know if they were satisfied with the tournament and the participation they got from the bowlers. The governor of one of the pueblos said that they got the $250,000 back the first week of the tournament.

  After the tournament was over and the city figured how much of an impact the bowlers had they determined that the USBC tournament brought in $90 Million dollars for the years we had the tournament.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: HackJandy on October 26, 2017, 05:27:48 PM
Which is a shame because Albuquerque needs all the economic development they can get.  This said as an UNM alumni who left because of a lack of white collar jobs and high crime.  Parents still live out in Rio Rathole though.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: avabob on October 27, 2017, 10:53:04 PM
A friend of mine was an attorney/ lobbyist in Billings .  He knew nothing about the tournament and asked me about it prior to the event going there.  I gave a rough idea of the financial impact, and he was pretty skeptical.  Months later he told me it was a phenomenal economic boost for the area.  He was amazed. 

Even in Reno the benefit to the area is huge, especially in March and early April, when it is normally a ghost Town during mid week.

Of course the continuing decline makes the benefits a lot small than a few years ago
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: n00dlejester on December 28, 2017, 11:40:36 AM
I wish Atlantic City would figure out how to host the tournament, especially during the warmer months. Close to home, could be a fun place with enough people, pretty good food there, and a beach!