BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Aloarjr810 on December 05, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
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Phil Cardinale's did a FB live feed shot on Dec. 1st in it he tells what he thinks about urethane and why Radical won't have a urethane ball (at least at the moment).
See about the 17min. mark
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/ (https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/)
basically it boiled down to
1-Radical won't have a Urethane (Right Now)
2-People use Urethane as a crutch.
3-You can use a resin ball with a mild drilling and a surface change and it won't ruin the shot as bad as Urethane will.
4-But if your on Radical staff and you want to use Urethane Brunswick makes real good ones.
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#wowthatsradical
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Sounds like the most stupidest thing I've heard in a real long time.
1) You should use whatever ball allows you to score the best.
and
2) Who entitled you to a "shot" anyway? Are you not good enough to adjust if the "shot" changes?
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Maybe I can run my epoxy ball down his line and show him what ruining a shot really looks like. Its fine plenty of better non Brunswick urethane out there to be had. You go Radical for strong asym reactives and you go Visionary for urethane.
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Sounds like the most stupidest thing I've heard in a real long time.
1) You should use whatever ball allows you to score the best.
and
Bingo!!!!! ^^^
2) Who entitled you to a "shot" anyway? Are you not good enough to adjust if the "shot" changes?
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Mr. Cardinals is a very smart man. History is littered with very smart men who, at times, used poor judgement and made mistakes that looked bad for them.
I have always, for some reason, held Mr. Cardinals in high regards. I also, for some reason, always thought that he might just be a little more “clued in†about the realities of real world bowling than some others in the same position.
I lost a little of that today.
Tell Jesper it’s a crutch. Or, for that matter, Belmo recently as well.
Who throws Radical on tour? Tom Smallwood? Didn’t he get beat out by guys using urethane? Good thing they handicapped themselves with urethane, otherwise they would’ve beaten him worse? That’s not right, and you know it.
It’s funny how things turn around over time. When resin balls first came out, THEY were the ones thought of as a crutch, one to be used to let the smaller, weaker, less accomplished players keep up. Now that resin has been around so long, and has gained vast popularity, it is the urethane that is being called a crutch, letting the less accurate “weaker†players be able to play in their comfort zone without having to learn how to really bowl. ::)
Sounds like Mo is starting to rub off on him, and that’s too bad.
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Phil is trying to sell balls. And since he can't justify producing a low sales volume item like urethane, he claims that it's not needed.
Just my opinion of his opinion. ;D
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He made some good points also, I like how he just lets it fly. Told some secrets most ball companies won't. The urethane debate is reaching the point that its all about who you ask and when.
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Urethane is condition specific tool that has its place. It is probably being over used currently, but certainly not a crutch. If you want to find a crutch, it is the heavily sanded ball, either urethane or resin, that allows guys who are incapable of squaring up to blow open a tight pattern.
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Yeah not going to tear him apart as I do like Radical but ...
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/73/e6/f4/73e6f4406062c6e5e7a630ea51e07b88--the-big-lebowski-jeff-bridges.jpg)
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Phil is trying to sell balls. And since he can't justify producing a low sales volume item like urethane, he claims that it's not needed.
Just my opinion of his opinion. ;D
IMO That might be part of it, But he said they wont have one "right now". To me that says they'll come out with one at some point .
I'd bet Big B just told them to hold off for a while, let them milk it first. Then Radical can put one out, with MO telling how all the other companies didn't do urethane right.
They were just using his old ideas for Urethane from years ago and he & phil have gone far past those ideas with a new Radical Urethane.
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Phil is trying to sell balls. And since he can't justify producing a low sales volume item like urethane, he claims that it's not needed.
Just my opinion of his opinion. ;D
IMO That might be part of it, But he said they wont have one "right now". To me that says they'll come out with one at some point .
I'd bet Big B just told them to hold off for a while, let them milk it first. Then Radical can put one out, with MO telling how all the other companies didn't do urethane right.
They were just using his old ideas for Urethane from years ago and he & phil have gone far past those ideas with a new Radical Urethane.
You are probably correct. It will only be a good idea when his company comes up with it.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane balls back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing. Cash core in particle urethane might be cool as hell for the oil.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
Lane 1 was because $300 balls don't sell and when he did catch lightning in a bottle with the Brunswick pours he decided to unwisely stiff them. Mo does know his stuff and is accessible but yeah plenty of other companies know their stuff as well. Have to have the marketing unless your balls are just otherworldly and if they are your deeper pocket competitors are going to have the same ball out in a few months. Ask Nu-Line.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
Lane 1 was because $300 balls don't sell and when he did catch lightning in a bottle with the Brunswick pours he decided to unwisely stiff them. Mo does know his stuff and is accessible but yeah plenty of other companies know their stuff as well. Have to have the marketing unless your balls are just otherworldly and if they are your deeper pocket competitors are going to have the same ball out in a few months. Ask Nu-Line.
Sorry, but Lane #1 was failing way before their $300 bowling ball. Nu-Line was before my time, but wasn't Storm bowling started in Bill Chrisman's garage? As I understand it, the guy was a chemist before starting High Score Products(Now Storm).
Motiv bowling had some financial backing with their parent company's existing products, but they seemed to get off to a decent start as well. And it's not like they are a Fortune 500 company either, so the money needed can't be that high.
Richie and Mo both talk a good game, but they both strike me a "All hat, no cattle".
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
Lane 1 was because $300 balls don't sell and when he did catch lightning in a bottle with the Brunswick pours he decided to unwisely stiff them. Mo does know his stuff and is accessible but yeah plenty of other companies know their stuff as well. Have to have the marketing unless your balls are just otherworldly and if they are your deeper pocket competitors are going to have the same ball out in a few months. Ask Nu-Line.
Sorry, but Lane #1 was failing way before their $300 bowling ball. Nu-Line was before my time, but wasn't Storm bowling started in Bill Chrisman's garage? As I understand it, the guy was a chemist before starting High Score Products(Now Storm).
Motiv bowling had some financial backing with their parent company's existing products, but they seemed to get off to a decent start as well. And it's not like they are a Fortune 500 company either, so the money needed can't be that high.
Richie and Mo both talk a good game, but they both strike me a "All hat, no cattle".
Richie I can agree with as my Stealth Bomber is one of my worst balls (these days Ritchie is only good for urethane ball polish). Mo though does have some good pieces which I own. Will readily agree Storm and Motiv make some fine pieces as well as I also own some. Ever major company seems to have its strengths and weaknesses (Mo for example is great with cores and Storm as you say is awesome at chemistry (cover stock formulations)). Sales don't always equal best ball as pretty sure the plastic ball market beats reactives in not only numbers sold but probably in overall revenue as well.
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I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
No, you’re not the only one.
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Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.
Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!
But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.
Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.
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Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.
Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!
But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.
Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.
Agree.
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Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.
Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!
But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.
Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.
Also agree but with the caveat I am one of the kind of rare bowlers who rarely can have too much ball due to my style which is probably why Mo's pieces work well for me. I guess many people struggle with most solid reactives on THS but that isn't me.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
No, you are not. I don't get the adulation he receives for 95% of his balls. I will agree that 2-5% of them were ground breaking.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
His knowledge and creativity are 2nd to none; his ability to communicate his ideas rate right behind Trump and a chimpanzee. He literally need a translator. I don't understand 90% of what he says, but then I only have a Master degree in computers and Mathematics.
I suspect Pinel dropped out every English class he attended.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
Let's not bring Ritchie ("Ignorance is Bliss") Sposato into this discussion.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?
I haven't met either of the guys in person, but the few times I've read post from them, they both seem like giant "Richards".
So you are suggesting that Brunswick did the equivalent of tying a pork chop around Mo's neck to get the dog(Phil in this case) to play with him? ;D ;D
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
No, you are not. I don't get the adulation he receives for 95% of his balls. I will agree that 2-5% of them were ground breaking.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
His knowledge and creativity are 2nd to none; his ability to communicate his ideas rate right behind Trump and a chimpanzee. He literally need a translator. I don't understand 90% of what he says, but then I only have a Master degree in computers and Mathematics.
I suspect Pinel dropped out every English class he attended.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
Let's not bring Ritchie ("Ignorance is Bliss") Sposato into this discussion.
This may be a little off the topic. Many years ago a buddy of mine had a pro shop. We decided to go to mo's seminar on the ninja I believe. Mo was so far over everybodies head that I turned to my buddy and said WTF lol.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?
I haven't met either of the guys in person, but the few times I've read post from them, they both seem like giant "Richards".
I have met Pinel when he supposed to give us lessons. He was more interested in selling flats of MoRich balls than in coaching us as part of a pro shop seminar in selling Morich balls.
FYI he measured my PAP as 2 3/4" over x 0" up, when every other pro shop and I, myself, have measured me as 5" over, 0" up. Not sure what hangover he had when he did that but it wasn't conducive to sales or a good impression.
So you are suggesting that Brunswick did the equivalent of tying a pork chop around Mo's neck to get the dog(Phil in this case) to play with him? ;D ;D
I would have to assume so, based on both Phil's and Pinel's reputations.
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True Mo did make one of the best urethane ball back in the day (Sumo) so yeah I am sure 25 years later he could do something pretty amazing.
I seem to be the only person who doesn't "get" Mo.
No, you are not. I don't get the adulation he receives for 95% of his balls. I will agree that 2-5% of them were ground breaking.
I keep hearing how great his stuff was, how innovative he is and that his knowledge is second to none.
His knowledge and creativity are 2nd to none; his ability to communicate his ideas rate right behind Trump and a chimpanzee. He literally need a translator. I don't understand 90% of what he says, but then I only have a Master degree in computers and Mathematics.
I suspect Pinel dropped out every English class he attended.
I have owned a few Morich balls and wasn't impressed. Not bad balls, but there are better options. If Mo is so much smarter than everyone else in bowling, why was his company such a dismal failure? Why wasn't every bowler using his stuff if it was so great?
Because he is not and never has been a businessman. His arrogance is beyond comprehension. I can't even believe he got someone, as rational and with as much common sense as Phil, to agree to work with him. Maybe Brunswick made Phil some promises?
It's the same with the Lane #1 guy, if the products are so much better(as they claim), then why aren't more bowlers buying their stuff?
Let's not bring Ritchie ("Ignorance is Bliss") Sposato into this discussion.
This may be a little off the topic. Many years ago a buddy of mine had a pro shop. We decided to go to mo's seminar on the ninja I believe. Mo was so far over everybody's head that I turned to my buddy and said WTF lol.
He requires a personal translator, as I said above, or a dose of antabuse.
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And yet the thread started of something semi dumb Phil said lol. All that said Ritchie is a whole other level of douche nozzle. Nothing I have seen of Mo online where I thought anything but perhaps socially awkward and maybe a little full of himself but Ritchie often comes across as a complete asshat. Maybe he isn't and he did give something to the bowling world I suppose so probably best not to throw dog poop I guess but too late.
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Met Phil and Mo several times. Mo needs a lot of patience and willing to agree with him.
Phil is genuinely a nice guy, yes he can be staunch or strong willed sometimes but all in all he seems to mean well. I think they both bring things to the table that help, but I’m sure it’s interesting sometimes....
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Mo's early offerings were great. I had a 3d offset super hook and Sledgehammer, both were out of this world. So when Morich started, I tried a Colossus. Hated it. Gave it away. Tried an Awesome Hook and Awesome Revs. Gave the Hook away and gave the Revs to my brother.
Mo's problem is that he thinks more is better. More intermediate diff, more flare, more engine, more everything!
But sometimes, less is more. As much as I loved my Network, .030 intermediate diff is too much. .025 is pushing it. Ritchie had the same problem with the DIFFERENCE. Too much.
Lane 1 had some killers as well, but they were all with the weaker Brunswick covers. The 900 Global covers sucked on the cores, and there is only so much you can do with one core shape.
I know this is beside the point you were making but what exactly was people's beef with the Morich line of balls? Did they tend to puke too much for a lot of bowlers?
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Phil Cardinale's did a FB live feed shot on Dec. 1st in it he tells what he thinks about urethane and why Radical won't have a urethane ball (at least at the moment).
See about the 17min. mark
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/ (https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/)
basically it boiled down to
1-Radical won't have a Urethane (Right Now)
2-People use Urethane as a crutch.
3-You can use a resin ball with a mild drilling and a surface change and it won't ruin the shot as bad as Urethane will.
4-But if your on Radical staff and you want to use Urethane Brunswick makes real good ones.
Phil needs to have the video not be a mirror image so that his company name will be easily read. :)
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I met Phil when i was in San Antonio working and bowled in a league at Astro for a season. This was when Radical was with 900Global and everything was small and local. He was kind enough to put me on staff back then and was a real down to earth type of guy. I haven't talked to him after i moved back to Dallas area and its been awhile. May have been the move from 900Global to Brunswick, going small time to the big time to make him change. Then again, i haven't talked to him in years. But Phil has always been nice to me. As far as Mo goes, i have no idea what planet he is from.
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As charlest mentioned, Mo is the worst communicator in the industry. That pairs poorly with his arrogance - if you don’t understand what he’s saying, he treats you like an idiot. That only gets worse if you disagree with what he’s saying. Mo is exceptionally smart, but he will irritate you with condescending tones long before you absorb anything from him.
His business failures can be mostly traced back to his arrogance, IMO. Morich was a compilation of balls that the average person didn’t know how to use and the average pro shop didn’t know how to drill. Rather than adapt, he assumed people would catch up to his mindset. They didn’t.
Some of that is still apparent in Radical. For instances, the Fix marketing (asym if drilled pin up, sym if drilled pin down) is ineffective for 95% of bowlers out there. While most companies have seemed to revert to core designs that are driller-friendly, Mo has hitched his wagon to driller-versatile. Still, Phil seems to have had at least some effect on Mo to push out ball motions that the market wants to see. Hiding Mo in the back doesn’t hurt either.
In the last 5 years, I’ve taken lessons with Mo and several other top coaches. Mo was the only experience that I took nothing away from. His approach is to tell you what youre doing wrong in his own jargon, but not actually explain what he wants you to do differently or why it’s wrong. Most of that “telling†can be easily construed as “mocking.†Frankly, I think the only people that enjoy his sense of humor are his cronies on BowlingChat.
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I like Radical balls in general. At least they aren't rereleasing balls from five plus years ago with a only a new color scheme and with a top shelf price like some of their competitors. Some innovation is good for the market even if it sometimes misses the mark.
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Morich was a compilation of balls that the average person didn’t know how to use and the average pro shop didn’t know how to drill.
I'll go with this a lot those morich balls were really picky on how they were drilled.
I had a Morich Labyrinth back when it came out, we drilled it with a pretty standard layout.
The ball wouldn't hook for nothing and it bowtied right in the middle of my middle finger hole.
So we plugged it and redrilled following the Morich drillsheet exactly and then the ball worked.
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Morich was a compilation of balls that the average person didn’t know how to use and the average pro shop didn’t know how to drill.
I'll go with this a lot those morich balls were really picky on how they were drilled.
I had a Morich Labyrinth back when it came out, we drilled it with a pretty standard layout.
The ball wouldn't hook for nothing and it bowtied right in the middle of my middle finger hole.
So we plugged it and redrilled following the Morich drillsheet exactly and then the ball worked.
Which I guess as mentioned above is why Phil is there to make sure some of the ball they release don't have cores made by aliens.
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I like Radical balls in general. At least they aren't rereleasing balls from five plus years ago with a only a new color scheme and with a top shelf price like some of their competitors. Some innovation is good for the market even if it sometimes misses the mark.
Well they can't re-release balls from too far back, The balls before Mo got there were plop for the most part.
I won a Slant HD from radical back then (i think one of the last produce before Mo arrived), it started cracking around the fingerholes after about ten games, we plugged it redrilled and it kept cracking and split with less than 30 games on it.
I watched it over time and it just kept cracking, this is what it looked like just before I threw it out. Even the filler split. The coverstock was just under a 1/4" thick.
(https://s5.postimg.org/ps6gb1akn/crackyousay.jpg)
After that I wouldn't touch a Radical.
After Mo got there Radicals balls and quality & performance went way up (though they are still eating Motivs dust) so I might would try another one.
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I like Radical balls in general. At least they aren't rereleasing balls from five plus years ago with a only a new color scheme and with a top shelf price like some of their competitors. Some innovation is good for the market even if it sometimes misses the mark.
Well they can't re-release balls from too far back, The balls before Mo got there were plop for the most part.
I won a Slant HD from radical back then (i think one of the last produce before Mo arrived), it started cracking around the fingerholes after about ten games, we plugged it redrilled and it kept cracking and split with less than 30 games on it.
I watched it over time and it just kept cracking, this is what it looked like just before I threw it out. Even the filler split. The coverstock was just under a 1/4" thick.
(https://s5.postimg.org/ps6gb1akn/crackyousay.jpg)
After Mo got there Radicals balls and quality & performance went way up (though they are still eating Motivs dust)
Was that a 900Global poured ball? Guess Mo is good for something if their balls got way better. I certainly wouldn't build an arsenal of just Radical balls but for those of us without a lot of hand their balls are sure nice to have on the market.
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well there's 1 of the main reasons why balls crack/split right there. 1/4" thick covers!!!!! made of brittle Porous material!
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Was that a 900Global poured ball?
I know that there were some balls poured by Global for other companies that had problems , Like the Pyramid Blood Moon.
But I don't know about the Radicals or that particular ball.
Guess Mo is good for something if their balls got way better.
When it comes to balls/cores Mo knows his stuff.
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well there's 1 of the main reasons why balls crack/split right there. 1/4" thick covers!!!!! made of brittle Porous material!
Yes Balls with no filler are way more durable.
IMO if companies didn't want go to no filler, if they just increased the coverstock thickness to like say a 1". They probably would stop a lot of the cracking issues.
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Was that a 900Global poured ball?
I know that there were some balls poured by Global for other companies that had problems , Like the Pyramid Blood Moon.
But I don't know about the Radicals or that particular ball.
Guess Mo is good for something if their balls got way better.
When it comes to balls/cores Mo knows his stuff.
That ball and all the one's before Big B weree poured by 900 Global..
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None of my 900 Global stuff has cracked...
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The black reax was the first Mo/Brunswick Radical ball. From my understanding, Mo is paid by B to design for Radical. Just what I was told. I have some pics of hollow pin Radical balls, but they are too large to upload. Besides for that, quality seems to be average in my area.
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well there's 1 of the main reasons why balls crack/split right there. 1/4" thick covers!!!!! made of brittle Porous material!
Yes Balls with no filler are way more durable.
IMO if companies didn't want go to no filler, if they just increased the coverstock thickness to like say a 1". They probably would stop a lot of the cracking issues.
Which is what (with some other reasons) makes the Honey Badger being 2 piece about the most enticing ball 900 makes imo. I am sure Brunswick balls crack as well (all manufacturers have bad batches) but I have never seen one and I have seen some seriously old and or well used Brunswick balls including owning one with a 1000+ games on it that spent 5 years unused in a Sonoran desert garage. All manufacturers have strengths and weaknesses imo which is why as long as I am buying the balls they aren't going to come from one company or even one umbrella of companies.
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Mo is a very smart guy not doubt. It depends on which Mo you talk to as to what information you get. Salesman Mo or bowling guru Mo.
Remember when Morich only made asymmetric core bowling balls? One of the reason which Mo stated online or in a video was because of "todays new oils" that is all bowlers need.
Morich had plenty of very high int diff bowling balls with very aggressive coverstocks and him pushing the dual angle system which eventually lead to many problems.
Proshops didn't understand the system and ended up with less then desirable results. Dual angle didn't create anything new for layouts that shops haven't seen before. It gave better information for expectations on results from layouts when drilling a ball. A 5" pin to pap layout with the pin above the ring finger and the mb by the thumb didn't change just because it was written as 60 x 5 x 45 etc.
Considering many of the layout suggestions Mo used and posted about involved 3-4" pin to pap on these balls the results for many were likely very bad. That is a lot of coverstock, a lot of flare, and a lot of int diff to go wrong more then right.
Then magically everything changed (cut cost) when the "oils changed" and now they started using "Mo's big symmetric core" which you should recognize from many of Brunswicks releases. Nothing changed, only loss of revenue.
Urethane isn't a must have for most. It is an option, but for a very small market. Radical doesn't need a urethane ball and neither does DV8 because Brunswick now makes one. Despite what many think,it is all the same coming from under one roof. The staffer finally got their urethane ball in the Brunswick family and now everything as we know it for the PBA and others should change completely......
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Urethane is ton of fun to throw and awesome for practice so I recommend at least one urethane ball for anyone with an arsenal over 3 or 4 balls or so. I will admit I don't use urethane often for league as I don't have the hand and pretty much have a hard ceiling of 210 to 215 with urethane which isn't the case with reactives. I am more consistent with urethane which means perhaps I should use it for league but its a fun league with wife so love the rush of a 230+ game occasionally.
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I have a urethane. I love my urethane. I don't go anywhere without it. I will bump right up against the wet dry and watch it smooth everything out. Then once that ball isn't going thru the pins right, move left and use resin. For me always being trapped in tweener hell, when I can smooth out the reaction, I will. I can ball up to an X to keep a smoother shape with better hit, or if I need to go more left to right, a Honey Badger. Having a ball that will keep you out of trouble is more important than you think.
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Phil Cardinale's did a FB live feed shot on Dec. 1st in it he tells what he thinks about urethane and why Radical won't have a urethane ball (at least at the moment).
See about the 17min. mark
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/ (https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/)
basically it boiled down to
1-Radical won't have a Urethane (Right Now)
2-People use Urethane as a crutch.
3-You can use a resin ball with a mild drilling and a surface change and it won't ruin the shot as bad as Urethane will.
4-But if your on Radical staff and you want to use Urethane Brunswick makes real good ones.
If you go back and listen again you will find I didn't say urethane was a crutch, I said people use it as a crutch. you also left out the part where I eluded to them saying when they bowl bad they say they had to use urethane especially in league. That was the crutch, not the ball the excuse. My opinion, i am entitled to have one, apparently everyone on the internet does.
Part 2 was that there are low strength resin balls that can be drilled to roll like urethane that wont blow open the pattern. That's a fact we have done tests and studies.
Regarding the Cracked ball in the post, 900 Global built that ball, I had reasons for leaving and licensing the brand to Brunswick, quality was one of them.
I do believe you have to listen to the entire Face Book post, people ask me questions I give them upfront answers, I could do what the competition does and avoid this website or give you the cookie cutter answer.
Urethane balls for the average customer, average league bowler is a novelty, most did not bowl with urethane when it first came out so it's new to them. I also stated that if you were a high rev player it was an option.
The Urethane market is relatively small, not a lot of room for technology, and all my companies have been high tech companies so its not a core competency for my brands, there are way too many out there and for the most part they all do the same thing.
I don't mind getting called out but at least get all the fact out.
Lots of other opinions about Mo and Richie which had nothing to do with the initial post at all, but than again that's the internet for you.
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Phil Cardinale's did a FB live feed shot on Dec. 1st in it he tells what he thinks about urethane and why Radical won't have a urethane ball (at least at the moment).
See about the 17min. mark
https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/ (https://www.facebook.com/radical.bowling.technologies/videos/1490117054441795/)
basically it boiled down to
1-Radical won't have a Urethane (Right Now)
2-People use Urethane as a crutch.
3-You can use a resin ball with a mild drilling and a surface change and it won't ruin the shot as bad as Urethane will.
4-But if your on Radical staff and you want to use Urethane Brunswick makes real good ones.
If you go back and listen again you will find I didn't say urethane was a crutch, I said people use it as a crutch. you also left out the part where I eluded to them saying when they bowl bad they say they had to use urethane especially in league. That was the crutch, not the ball the excuse. My opinion, i am entitled to have one, apparently everyone on the internet does.
Part 2 was that there are low strength resin balls that can be drilled to roll like urethane that wont blow open the pattern. That's a fact we have done tests and studies.
Regarding the Cracked ball in the post, 900 Global built that ball, I had reasons for leaving and licensing the brand to Brunswick, quality was one of them.
I do believe you have to listen to the entire Face Book post, people ask me questions I give them upfront answers, I could do what the competition does and avoid this website or give you the cookie cutter answer.
Urethane balls for the average customer, average league bowler is a novelty, most did not bowl with urethane when it first came out so it's new to them. I also stated that if you were a high rev player it was an option.
The Urethane market is relatively small, not a lot of room for technology, and all my companies have been high tech companies so its not a core competency for my brands, there are way too many out there and for the most part they all do the same thing.
I don't mind getting called out but at least get all the fact out.
Lots of other opinions about Mo and Richie which had nothing to do with the initial post at all, but than again that's the internet for you.
Thanks for responding. Yeah easy to get the internet going off in tangents (me especially I suppose, guess shouldn't have thrown poop at Ritchie but imo his recent pieces and attitude just plain suck, which the market kind of agrees with). Lot of urethane lovers to be found (at least on here) who often get also the misinformation of how its ruining the shot from other less knowledgeable bowlers often with Sure Locks so can be a touchy topic (a lot of bowlers can't tell difference between carry down and burning up the end of a pattern). Do love your pieces so keep up the good work. Honestly as you say plenty of other options out there for urethane. Some of us really need the strong asyms so not crying personally about no Radical urethane but I also don't believe weak reactives can ever replace it. Love my More Cash but love my Crow as well.
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Lot of urethane lovers to be found (at least on here) who often get also the misinformation of how its ruining the shot from other less knowledgeable bowlers often with Sure Locks so can be a touchy topic (a lot of bowlers can't tell difference between carry down and burning up the end of a pattern).
Urethane absolutely carry's oil down the lane because the cover doesn't allow it to soak into the ball, which can absolutely "ruin" a high volume pattern, especially if it is early in the block. That's fact, not "less knowledgeable" bowlers who don't know the difference between carrydown and balls "slowing down" too soon. Those oil streaks that are on the lane, beyond the length of the pattern, yes, it's carrydown. Walk down the gutter cap sometime past the end of the pattern, and view it for yourself.
What Mr. Cardinale said in his Facebook post, was %100 accurate. It is a crutch, because instead of training yourself to be more up the back of the ball, or taking hand out of it, bowlers today use their same release, and just throw urethane to close down their angles.
With all that said, I use urethane on short patterns, and will continue to do so, because it makes it easier for me to use stronger drillings and will give me a slightly wider pocket on said short patterns. I'm certainly not ignorant to the fact that it's a crutch for me to do so (because it's easier for me to throw it slower and be consistent, than throw it 100mph), or to the fact that I carry oil down the lane. Being on the left, my use of urethane affects fewer people, and can sometimes help create some hold area, though.
http://www.kegel.net/wpa/breakdown-and-carrydown-then-and-now
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Calling urethane a crutch for any pattern is akin to calling super covers a crutch for heavy oil patterns. Urethane is a tool, nothing more. It may not be a tool many bowlers can take full advantage of, but neither are sanded down super covers.
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Exactly. Why is throwing a ball the creates more Carry down any different the using extreme surface to blow up the heads and the pattern.
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Calling urethane a crutch for any pattern is akin to calling super covers a crutch for heavy oil patterns. Urethane is a tool, nothing more. It may not be a tool many bowlers can take full advantage of, but neither are sanded down super covers.
People with ultra high rev rates are using urethane on volumes of oil that are 5 to 10 times more than what was used when urethane was introduced and in play as an industry standard. If these same people used urethane on the volumes of oil, that urethane was originally used on, they wouldn't be able to keep the ball on the lane.
Have your bowling center us a shot with about 3-4ml total of "today's oil" at about 25-30 feet in length, on a synthetic lane, and that maybe, would be close to replicating the volumes and viscosity of a 7-9ml lane oil condition on wood, back in the 1980's. Then you will "see" the "crutch".
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Exactly. Why is throwing a ball the creates more Carry down any different the using extreme surface to blow up the heads and the pattern.
First off, by nature they are the exact opposite.
Second of all, no one said using 360 grit on an ultra high performance oil soaking cover stock to blow up patterns, was a good thing, either. Let's not put words in people's mouths.
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A few points from this article below (well worth a read). I won't argue that urethane doesn't carry down oil because it does. I will argue with modern reactives that a single bowler in a three game set with urethane can carry down enough oil to affect these oil slurping reactives much at all (unless they are perhaps exactly on your line). I will also argue another bowler with an oiler can affect your shot a lot more than a urethane ball bowler will by drying out the end of the pattern near your breakpoint and causing dreaded over under.
"So, in an effort to resolve this issue once and for all, I decided to take a factual, logical, scientific approach to carrydown.
Fact #1: The USBC requires that a minimum of three units of oil be used from gutter to gutter for the entire length of the oil pattern.
Fact #2: We have all thrown, or seen others throw, shots that miss so far to the outside of the lane that we feared that they were going in the gutter, only to see them make a violent turn back toward the pins, often resulting in a strike.
Logical Conclusion #1: Three units of oil is not enough volume to affect modern reactive bowling balls.
With this in mind, I enlisted the gracious aid of Dennis Mathews, the Bowling Operations Manager at Red Rock Lanes in Las Vegas, as well as Head Mechanic Jeff Zawislak, who took a tape reading of the streaks of oil coming off of the end of the pattern following 24 games of league play.
Please note that at only one spot on the lane—the nine board on the right side—was there two units of oil present in the streak. Everywhere else on the lane, the streaks measured less than two units of oil, with most being less than one unit in volume.
Logical Conclusion #2: The volume of oil present in streaks of “carrydown†is insufficient to affect the motion of reactive resin balls during league play. In other words, carrydown is no longer a significant factor in modern bowling. "
(edit: please note plenty of those league players were throwing at least plastic if not urethane for spares).
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/the-dead-zone-revisited/ (https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/the-dead-zone-revisited/)
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/el-dorado-and-el-diablo/ (https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/el-dorado-and-el-diablo/)
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Hackjandy,
If you are on Facebook, I would suggest you go to kegel's Facebook page, and scroll down a bit, and you will find their "testing" of what low flaring urethane does to high volume oil patterns. It was posted about or around mid November.
The other thing you guys are missing is, Phil was talking about what happened on tour at the wsob, on high volume ultra slick oil. You are comparing what can happen to a lane that has minimal oil on the outside of the lane. Not the same thing. Apples and oranges.
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All that ruins shot nonsense is a bunch of whining players who either don't know how to adjust or just don't want to have to do it.
It's like in league the players that whine about others playing the same line as "ME" and ruining "MY" shot. Their pushing oil into "MY" breakpoint and How they should be playing a different line than "MINE".
I'm sure the guys in the video that said the Urethane guys ruined the shot for them , Always leave pristine conditions for the guys who follow them.
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Hackjandy,
If you are on Facebook, I would suggest you go to kegel's Facebook page, and scroll down a bit, and you will find their "testing" of what low flaring urethane does to high volume oil patterns. It was posted about or around mid November.
Not all urethane is low flare these days. That said I am going to throw whatever damn ball I want and unless USBC makes it illegal my opponents can go take a flying fsck. Modern reactives hook in the oil period and they soak up oil. They are affected a lot more by early friction then they are late oil (which gets absorbed by the reactives anyway). In fact if it screws the opponent's shot its double bonus. Lol my wife throws plastic anyway so there is an I in team.
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Hackjandy,
If you are on Facebook, I would suggest you go to kegel's Facebook page, and scroll down a bit, and you will find their "testing" of what low flaring urethane does to high volume oil patterns. It was posted about or around mid November.
Not all urethane is low flare these days. That said I am going to throw whatever damn ball I want and unless USBC makes it illegal my opponents can go take a flying fsck. Modern reactives hook in the oil period and they soak up oil. They are affected a lot more by early friction then they are late oil. In fact if it screws the opponent's shot its double bonus.
Did you go to Facebook and look at their testing data?
And on what board does your wife's plastic bowling ball exit the pattern? I bet not on the traditional breakpoint as everyone else's ball. Apples and oranges when comparing what happened at the wsob, and Phil's statement.
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Hackjandy,
If you are on Facebook, I would suggest you go to kegel's Facebook page, and scroll down a bit, and you will find their "testing" of what low flaring urethane does to high volume oil patterns. It was posted about or around mid November.
Not all urethane is low flare these days. That said I am going to throw whatever damn ball I want and unless USBC makes it illegal my opponents can go take a flying fsck. Modern reactives hook in the oil period and they soak up oil. They are affected a lot more by early friction then they are late oil. In fact if it screws the opponent's shot its double bonus.
Did you go to Facebook and look at their testing data?
I would mess up people's line in shadow bowling with my epoxy ball not my urethane. If you bowl doubles not only is league fast and fun but the shot seldom gets messed up as well.
(edited: to be a little less obnoxious about how much I truly care about others shot and feelings lol).
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Okay I think the train has got off the tracks and is starting to burn.
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I had to go and be that guy. :-[ Oh well. Still love urethane and love bowling. Competition and highest score possible at all times not always the only goal to me. Watching my Ogre Urethane take out splits as good as stringing strikes often. Still believe urethane gets a bad rap when they are some of the most fun pieces you can own.
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Just a little side note on the 3 unit minimum. That rule came out after quite a bit of study by the ABC. Unfortunately for the ABC resin balls made their appearance shortly after the 3 unit rule. They probably should have gon to something lik e 5-6 units in light of new technologies.
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Just a little side note on the 3 unit minimum. That rule came out after quite a bit of study by the ABC. Unfortunately for the ABC resin balls made their appearance shortly after the 3 unit rule. They probably should have gon to something lik e 5-6 units in light of new technologies.
Yeah kind of what i was saying. Friction affects reactives a more than oil does. 3 units is nothing really for modern balls.
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If you go back and listen again you will find I didn't say urethane was a crutch, I said people use it as a crutch. you also left out the part where I eluded to them saying when they bowl bad they say they had to use urethane especially in league. That was the crutch, not the ball the excuse.
Okay, I listened again "people say "Well I'm throwing a urethane ball' and you said "Big deal""
I don't see how that eludes to them saying when they bowl bad they saying they had to use urethane especially in league as a excuse for bowling bad.
Maybe instead of eluding to things, just come right out and say it.
Of I course I understand you have to watch what you say, you don't want to alienate any possible customers.
Plus you probably can't say something like "The majority of players don't need a Urethane ball and shouldn't buy them." because of company restrictions you maybe under that limit what youy can say in public that might impact somebodies sales or Radicals should you decide produce one in the future.
My opinion, i am entitled to have one,
Yes, You are entitled to a opinion no one said you weren't.
apparently everyone on the internet does.
I'm guessing that's a allusion to something, that we probably shouldn't come right out and say about people on the internet.
Part 2 was that there are low strength resin balls that can be drilled to roll like urethane that wont blow open the pattern. That's a fact we have done tests and studies.
As for Urethane ruining the shot, Resin balls ruin a shot too. Just in a different way, for somebody else.
Learn to adjust to the conditions, don't complain about the guy ahead of you and how he didn't leave perfect conditions that suited your shot.
To many players today expect pristine conditions every time they make a shot.
If they don't get those perfect condition's, then that's their excuse (how ever they felt it was caused) for their bowling bad "Their crutch"
Urethane balls for the average customer, average league bowler is a novelty, most did not bowl with urethane when it first came out so it's new to them.
An just to note, I'm by no means a great bowler or have ever claimed to be. But I've been around a long time, see a lot and heard lot, I started out with polyester, my first urethane was a Angle LD and several others after that (in fact I still have my Org. Faball Burgundy Hammer from back in the day.).
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I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see. I bowl in a house with wooden lanes where the oil machine doesn't strip. They strip fully on Wednesdays, back 10 or 15' on Thursdays, and never again. Because of the wooden lanes, the volume is pretty decent to start with. And it keeps building night after night in the heads and mids, except for what the reactivate balls take off. If they get a little of open bowling, the plastic house balls carry down a lot of oil by the time sunday rolls around. Pun completely intended. With fresh heads, there are times we can barely get a ball to wiggle or finish. But these are all conditions that are perfect to create the carry down. 99.99999% of bowlers will never see a scenario to create those conditions, especially not with any regularity.
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I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see.
Of course there's carrydown, all anyone has to do is walk down the lanes after a league and look.
The real debate is whether or not it's enough to affect modern bowling balls.
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I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see. I bowl in a house with wooden lanes where the oil machine doesn't strip. They strip fully on Wednesdays, back 10 or 15' on Thursdays, and never again. Because of the wooden lanes, the volume is pretty decent to start with. And it keeps building night after night in the heads and mids, except for what the reactivate balls take off. If they get a little of open bowling, the plastic house balls carry down a lot of oil by the time sunday rolls around. Pun completely intended. With fresh heads, there are times we can barely get a ball to wiggle or finish. But these are all conditions that are perfect to create the carry down. 99.99999% of bowlers will never see a scenario to create those conditions, especially not with any regularity.
For league probably. I will also readily admit open bowling after a birthday party yes you may well see some shot affecting carry down since they dont make 6lb Sure Locks.
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Carry Down definitely still exists even is some leagues. This season I bowl in a for fun small mixed 5 person league where one team 3 bowlers use plastic and carry down does happen. Not necessarily a bad thing for me every time as I think I had my best nite in that league 1 of 2 times we bowled them as I didn't have to migrate as far left in the last game as most nites in this particular house.
I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see. I bowl in a house with wooden lanes where the oil machine doesn't strip. They strip fully on Wednesdays, back 10 or 15' on Thursdays, and never again. Because of the wooden lanes, the volume is pretty decent to start with. And it keeps building night after night in the heads and mids, except for what the reactivate balls take off. If they get a little of open bowling, the plastic house balls carry down a lot of oil by the time sunday rolls around. Pun completely intended. With fresh heads, there are times we can barely get a ball to wiggle or finish. But these are all conditions that are perfect to create the carry down. 99.99999% of bowlers will never see a scenario to create those conditions, especially not with any regularity.
For league probably. I will also readily admit open bowling after a birthday party yes you may well see some shot affecting carry down since they dont make 6lb Sure Locks.
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The argument isn't if carrydown exists, but if it exists when people are beating up a pattern with resin. If you're using plastic, there's gonna be carrydown. Urethane, there's going to be carrydown ( less than plastic, but a little) Resin? There's the debate. Although the people that can't move their feet left of the big dot thinks it's carrydown when their ball doesn't finish, it's usually that the heads are beat up and the ball is puking at your foot.
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Carry Down definitely still exists even is some leagues. This season I bowl in a for fun small mixed 5 person league where one team 3 bowlers use plastic and carry down does happen. Not necessarily a bad thing for me every time as I think I had my best nite in that league 1 of 2 times we bowled them as I didn't have to migrate as far left in the last game as most nites in this particular house.
I'm far from a 240 average boarder, but I will insist that carry down does exist. I don't care what anyone says. But it doesn't exist in most shots that people see. I bowl in a house with wooden lanes where the oil machine doesn't strip. They strip fully on Wednesdays, back 10 or 15' on Thursdays, and never again. Because of the wooden lanes, the volume is pretty decent to start with. And it keeps building night after night in the heads and mids, except for what the reactivate balls take off. If they get a little of open bowling, the plastic house balls carry down a lot of oil by the time sunday rolls around. Pun completely intended. With fresh heads, there are times we can barely get a ball to wiggle or finish. But these are all conditions that are perfect to create the carry down. 99.99999% of bowlers will never see a scenario to create those conditions, especially not with any regularity.
For league probably. I will also readily admit open bowling after a birthday party yes you may well see some shot affecting carry down since they dont make 6lb Sure Locks.
Which is kind of my point. Urethane does affect the shot some but it doesn't destroy it especially if a bowler is capable of adjusting at all. Modern reactive bowling balls handle late light oil much better than early friction generally.
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Using urethane, I get carry down. My ball starts to fade, and starts to lose entry angle. I have to move out into the dry a bit more, and play a bit more direct, and throw it REAL good. I can do that
BUT
Usually, the guys on the other team, using resin, say “The shot tightened upâ€, move their feet a little, and DO NOT lose their entry angle.
My urethane carries down enough oil to effect its own reaction adversely, but NOT enough to kill the reaction of a well thrown, “good†resin ball. In fact, it often seems like their shot holds up better when I’m throwing urethane. I hardly ever hear complaints of the shot burning up when I’m using urethane, but I do when I’m using resin.
Resin changes the condition faster, AND is effected more by those changes, than urethane do.
With urethane, the oil carries down, the shot tightens up, and you have to adjust accordingly. Usually, that means moving into the dry a bit, using speed control to moderate the reaction, and throw it off your hand really nice.
With resin, the oil dissipates more than anything else, the shot blows open, and you have to adjust accordingly. Usually, that means moving deeper, using speed control to keep it from over reacting, and make sure not to over hit the release.
A ball is just a tool. It does what it does.
Sometimes, you need a pair of pliers, sometimes, you need a wrench.
Which one is up to you, but don’t gripe if the other guy is a better mechanic than you.
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Very good points juggernaut. I made s bit of a long winded post in another thread chronicling what you just said. Carrydown impacts urethane ball reaction much more than it impacts resin
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Yep agree fully with what both of you are saying. There was a bit of an implicit admission that market forces may have affected the original argument so may well be a bit of sour grapes kind of deal. I agree urethane is condition specific for majority of bowlers out there and perhaps the urethane craze is overblown (but love throwing it myself for fun) but I don't buy how it ruins anything but perhaps limiting the original bowler's score if they use it when they shouldn't be.
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I think you guys hit it square. When I use urethane, after the heads begin to go and there is some hold, I find myself moving right into the dry while the resin users that can throw it are moving left.
On a fresh shot I have to play more direct but don’t see the urethane doing nearly as much damage to the fresh as the super soaker resins.
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Based on David O'Sulovan's video on Facebook, urethane balls often create carrydown from a lack of flaring. Asym cores on urethane might be the way to go.
Also can't believe there are people saying urethane should be banned.
I guess when I bowled a tournament this weekend I ruined the shot with my Purple Pearl Urethane and its carrydown. Funny thing is, a guy that followed my pair beat me for the 8th games by 13. I guess I should "learn" how to take hand out with reactive even though the shape that this ball provides gave me the best opportunity to score.
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I'll tell you what. I'll bowl 2 games with my Booyah on one lane, 2 games with my Incinerate on the other. You tell me what lane is changed more and for the better. Bet you're going to say the urethane one is more playable.
Remember when everyone said to ban resin???
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Based on David O'Sulovan's video on Facebook, urethane balls often create carrydown from a lack of flaring. Asym cores on urethane might be the way to go.
Here's a link to the referenced video
David O'Sullivan: Peak Performance Pro Shop- Tech Talk Urethane Bowling Balls
https://www.facebook.com/david.osullivan.585/videos/10101574004071661/ (https://www.facebook.com/david.osullivan.585/videos/10101574004071661/)
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I'll tell you what. I'll bowl 2 games with my Booyah on one lane, 2 games with my Incinerate on the other. You tell me what lane is changed more and for the better. Bet you're going to say the urethane one is more playable.
Remember when everyone said to ban resin???
^^^^^ this x1000
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I'll tell you what. I'll bowl 2 games with my Booyah on one lane, 2 games with my Incinerate on the other. You tell me what lane is changed more and for the better. Bet you're going to say the urethane one is more playable.
Remember when everyone said to ban resin???
Do this on a pair of lanes with a typical house shot with barely 3 units on the gutter and about 18-20mL on the entire lane;
then do it on a pair of lanes with a 25-29mL tournament shot, and you will have two different answers.
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I'll tell you what. I'll bowl 2 games with my Booyah on one lane, 2 games with my Incinerate on the other. You tell me what lane is changed more and for the better. Bet you're going to say the urethane one is more playable.
Remember when everyone said to ban resin???
Do this on a pair of lanes with a typical house shot with barely 3 units on the gutter and about 18-20mL on the entire lane;
then do it on a pair of lanes with a 25-29mL tournament shot, and you will have two different answers.
You'll also have 2 different types of bowlers. If you're facing the second pattern, then you aren't going to complain. Also, on that pattern, if you're using urethane (didn't say the length, so I'm going to assume 40 feet) on that, for the majority, you're using the wrong piece of equipment.
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You'll also have 2 different types of bowlers. If you're facing the second pattern, then you aren't going to complain. Also, on that pattern, if you're using urethane (didn't say the length, so I'm going to assume 40 feet) on that, for the majority, you're using the wrong piece of equipment.
You guys do realize this entire thread, is based on a comment made by Phil Cardinale, about what transpired at the WSOB this year, right?
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You'll also have 2 different types of bowlers. If you're facing the second pattern, then you aren't going to complain. Also, on that pattern, if you're using urethane (didn't say the length, so I'm going to assume 40 feet) on that, for the majority, you're using the wrong piece of equipment.
You guys do realize this entire thread, is based on a comment made by Phil Cardinale, about what transpired at the WSOB this year, right?
Yeah and Phil was nice enough to come on here and reply. Nice guy who knows his stuff but everyone has opinions. Remember he is in business to sell balls so grain of salt because he is like a staffer on steroids. Love his products though.