BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: JazlarVonSteich on January 11, 2018, 02:58:28 PM

Title: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: JazlarVonSteich on January 11, 2018, 02:58:28 PM
Simple question here. Not sure if the answer is as simple though.

Are you allowed to throw balls in league before the official release date? I'm talking about non-staffers. I'm pretty sure it is legal, in terms of rules - as long as the ball is on the approved list. Talking more about if companies care. And especially if it is only 1-3 days before release.

In particular, does Storm/RG have a problem with it?
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: ignitebowling on January 11, 2018, 03:20:29 PM
If usbc approved release date is only relative to sales.  So you or anyone else are good to bowl away with a new ball even if it hasn't "released" for sale yet.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: JazlarVonSteich on January 11, 2018, 03:26:20 PM
If usbc approved release date is only relative to sales.  So you or anyone else are good to bowl away with a new ball even if it hasn't "released" for sale yet.

That was my thinking. Not going to get into the reasons for this post, but I will say that it is an issue I've seen come up around here. I'm in Canada, but CTF rules follow USBC rules for the most part, but especially for equipment and such.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: NitroR2 on January 11, 2018, 03:52:14 PM
I'm pretty sure that any problem would be between the Ball Company and the Person that sold you the ball before the official release date.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: BallReviews-Removed0385 on January 11, 2018, 05:12:29 PM
Once they are approved by USBC they can (legally) be used, regardless of when the company has it's release date.  I can't even imagine a company sending out a ball before it's USBC approval. 

Many staffers receive the balls slightly before the release date.  However, I've never heard of a company sending out balls before their USBC approval. 
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Track_Fanatic on January 11, 2018, 05:36:46 PM
I had issues in the 90’s with my leagues when I had a ball that wasn’t out to the public yet but was already on the approved list. It got really ugly quickly as some felt if they couldn’t get it yet, then it shouldn’t be able to be used. Some thought I had an unfair advantage. However, I had more people asking me questions about the ball I had though and that’s one of the things I liked, being able to talk about a brand and what made this different than prior releases. 
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: SVstar34 on January 11, 2018, 05:39:48 PM
I had issues in the 90’s with my leagues when I had a ball that wasn’t out to the public yet but was already on the approved list. It got really ugly quickly as some felt if they couldn’t get it yet, then it shouldn’t be able to be used. Some thought I had an unfair advantage. However, I had more people asking me questions about the ball I had though and that’s one of the things I liked, being able to talk about a brand and what made this different than prior releases. 

That's part of the reason why I've gone away from Storm/Roto in recent years as everyone is already using it. I like being asked about what I'm throwing and even been able to sway some people to give something else a chance
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: JazlarVonSteich on January 12, 2018, 09:40:33 AM
Here's a follow-up question that I also wanted to ask yesterday, but didn't have time.

If pro shops get them in early, do the ball companies want them to hold off selling/drilling until the release date?

I understand why movies, games, etc. have release dates that they want to stick, but we're talking about sports equipment. Isn't the goal to get more balls out there? What if it were to lose a sale to another manufacturer's ball that is already on the market?

Just want this cleared up for the future when I have a chance to get a ball up to several days early.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Bowl_Freak on January 12, 2018, 09:58:30 AM
From my experience, Pro Shops can't sell early released balls to public before the official release date. If they are found to, they could actually get in trouble. The only reason they get the balls early is so they can display them to get the public's interest in the new ball so upon release date, they could have pre-sold 4 or 6.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Track_Fanatic on January 12, 2018, 10:04:52 AM
From my experience, Pro Shops can't sell early released balls to public before the official release date. If they are found to, they could actually get in trouble. The only reason they get the balls early is so they can display them to get the public's interest in the new ball so upon release date, they could have pre-sold 4 or 6.
[/quote
From my experience, Pro Shops can't sell early released balls to public before the official release date. If they are found to, they could actually get in trouble. The only reason they get the balls early is so they can display them to get the public's interest in the new ball so upon release date, they could have pre-sold 4 or 6.

Exactly!  If pro shops get them early, they are only suppose to display them. They could probably sell it and put holes in it but would have to wait until release date to release it to the buyer. I didn’t have this experience since mine was not a pro shop issue.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: JazlarVonSteich on January 12, 2018, 10:20:31 AM
Ok thanks for the replies. I have no problem waiting. Just figured why wait if you don't have to? Still curious why they send out multiples if they are just for display and really, what is the reason for waiting until the official release date? It's a bowling ball. There are limits to what they can do. Foolish if people think one ball is an advantage over others. Do other sports have "restrictions" like this? I've had softball bats early and never had an issue.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: HackJandy on January 12, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
Restrictions are for marketing reasons.  They want the general public to have access all at the same time.  Pretty sure they don't send balls out of house much at all before they are on approved ball list so not an USBC issue more get in the trouble with the ball companies issue.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: BigWillyStyle on January 12, 2018, 08:59:47 PM
From my experience, Pro Shops can't sell early released balls to public before the official release date. If they are found to, they could actually get in trouble. The only reason they get the balls early is so they can display them to get the public's interest in the new ball so upon release date, they could have pre-sold 4 or 6.


I also would say, that sometimes the PSO will punch up the ball to drum up sales as well...I believe this has to do with if your pro shop is an authorized Storm, Brunswick, ect., shop.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: 3835 on January 12, 2018, 09:53:38 PM
I shot a 300 last week in league on Jan 3 with my Jackal Rising. Release date was Jan 10. No issues with certification, etc because USBC approval was 2 months ago (November 14).
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 13, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
Release dates are something they came up with to have all the distributors on equal footing.  That is the day distributors can start shipping.  In the past you would have distributors that were closer to the factories getting their balls sooner and balls would get to some pro shops before some distributors even got their shipment.  So it keeps the manufacturers from trying to time the logistics perfect for every distributor to receive them at the same time. 

You won't see production balls before the approval date.  Only small batches are made for testing and USBC submittal and are not engraved with the USBC approval.  There are fines from USBC if you are caught with balls released with the USBC Approved logo before they are actually approved. 
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Juggernaut on January 13, 2018, 08:33:27 AM
Using them in leagues before the public release date is alright I suppose, but I don’t think you should be able to use them in tournaments until they are available to the general public.

 
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Aloarjr810 on January 13, 2018, 08:54:18 AM
Simple question here. Not sure if the answer is as simple though.

Are you allowed to throw balls in league before the official release date? I'm talking about non-staffers. I'm pretty sure it is legal, in terms of rules - as long as the ball is on the approved list. Talking more about if companies care. And especially if it is only 1-3 days before release.

In particular, does Storm/RG have a problem with it?

As far as the USBC is concerned any ball on the approved ball list is acceptable for use in USBC leagues, tournaments etc. regardless of the Mfg. WWRD.

Now unless something has changed the PBA added a rule back around 2012 prohibiting members from using bowling balls in PBA events until they are officially released to the public.

this email was sent to all Storm and Roto Grip staffers back then:

“We have recently been informed by the PBA that effective immediately; balls that are not “officially” released to the public are not allowed to be used in any PBA competition. ... This will remain in effect on any new releases going forward until further notice.
“We will continue offering our releases to the PBA ‘full members,’ but they will not ship until the official release date. Staff members will continue to be able to order the equipment early and use them in all other tournaments and leagues. ...
“If you use any balls prior to their release date, in a PBA event, you run the risk of being disqualified.
”
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Juggernaut on January 13, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
Hey Aloarjr810,

 Concerning the PBA.

 Some of the tv shows are shot to be aired “at a later date”.

 Do you know if the rule applies to the actual tournament date, or the television air date?

 Just curious. Being as they are PBA guys, bowling in PBA tournaments, they are the only ones I think would be exempt from the rule, as they all have access to the latest stuff from their sponsors anyway. Not like they can’t get their hands on it just for the asking.
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Aloarjr810 on January 13, 2018, 09:46:46 AM
Hey Aloarjr810,

 Concerning the PBA.

 Some of the tv shows are shot to be aired “at a later date”.

 Do you know if the rule applies to the actual tournament date, or the television air date?

AFAIK the actual tournament date

Quote
Just curious. Being as they are PBA guys, bowling in PBA tournaments, they are the only ones I think would be exempt from the rule, as they all have access to the latest stuff from their sponsors anyway. Not like they can’t get their hands on it just for the asking.

The PBA rule has nothing to do with use in USBC leagues.

The PBA rule is about ball use in PBA events, if the PBA players were exempt there would be no reason for the PBA having the rule in the first place.



Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 13, 2018, 09:54:22 AM
Pretty sure the PBA now has there own approval date. 
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: Aloarjr810 on January 13, 2018, 10:05:54 AM
Pretty sure the PBA now has there own approval date. 

Approval dates and Release dates are two different things
Title: Re: Ball release dates and use in league
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 13, 2018, 10:15:25 AM
I'm pretty sure I understand that.  I think I posted that this morning.  Release date is a magical date made up by manufacturers that distributors are not allowed to ship before.  It has nothing to do with pro shops selling their seed balls or staff members using them.

The PBA used to be when it was available to the general membership, then it went to when it was available to the public, and now I pretty sure they have their own approval date, which is different than the USBC approval and the release date.