BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: billdozer on March 01, 2018, 09:57:48 PM

Title: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: billdozer on March 01, 2018, 09:57:48 PM
What are the pros and cons....I'd assume just cons...
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: milorafferty on March 01, 2018, 10:12:52 PM
It is WAY less expensive to accomplish the same task
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: billdozer on March 01, 2018, 10:56:07 PM
It is WAY less expensive to accomplish the same task

Gotchya.  So the sandpaper is more costly? I'm not a big surface guy, and we were bullshit*ting in the bar about it...I'm like man 🤔 idk!?
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: milorafferty on March 01, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
It is WAY less expensive to accomplish the same task

Gotchya.  So the sandpaper is more costly? I'm not a big surface guy, and we were bullshit*ting in the bar about it...I'm like man 🤔 idk!?

Lol, no Abralon is much more expensive that sand paper
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: billdozer on March 01, 2018, 11:14:19 PM
He was telling me once the pad is used he can't see what grit the pad says....

I said if they're that used, toss em. And I told he could write grit in sharpie on the back...blew his mind.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: MI 2 AZ on March 02, 2018, 01:22:12 AM
I prefer scotch brite pads when applicable.  They seem to be more consistant over long use.  Plus, they are color coded so you know what the grit is.  :)
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: avabob on March 02, 2018, 09:17:58 AM
Putting a lot of surface on a ball first came into vogue with the introduction the urethane ball in 1981.  We initially used sandpaper and even screen to take surfaces way down to maybe 280.  We started using the scotch brites pretty quickly.  With the introduction of resin enhanced shells people didn't want near as much surface   and the availability of abralon at up to 4000 grit made it the tool of choice more often than sandpaper.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: HackJandy on March 02, 2018, 11:16:20 AM
I prefer scotch brite pads when applicable.  They seem to be more consistant over long use.  Plus, they are color coded so you know what the grit is.  :)

+1 on scotch brites.  Hardly use the Abralons I bought any more.  They are more precise new but wear out so lose that precision fairly quickly.  Also want to give a shout out to 3k and 5k Trizact sanding discs.  Those things last forever.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: Aloarjr810 on March 02, 2018, 01:35:49 PM
What are the pros and cons....I'd assume just cons...

Abralon, Siaair, Sandpaper, Scotchbrites are all viable options for surface adjustments.

Effectively there's no differences in the surfaces you can produce on a ball using paper vs Abralon.

Sandpaper is cheaper, lasts longer, You can get it in P-scale grit just like Abralon uses (US grit will work just look at a conversion chart).

if you want a soft back just hold a old abralon pad or sponge on the back of the paper.

If you get velcro backed paper it will stick on a CAB (Contour Abrasion Block).

The thing about abralon was it used the FEPA P-scale for grit and that uses a tighter production tolerance than US/Cami grit.

Scotchbrites are okay they last a long time, but you don't quite have the grit selection and don't cut quite as deep.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: charlest on March 02, 2018, 02:57:30 PM
Putting a lot of surface on a ball first came into vogue with the introduction the urethane ball in 1981.  We initially used sandpaper and even screen to take surfaces way down to maybe 280.  We started using the Scotch-Brites pretty quickly.  With the introduction of resin enhanced shells people didn't want near as much surface   and the availability of Abralon at up to 4000 grit made it the tool of choice more often than sandpaper.

Good, practical summary, Bob.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: duvallite on March 02, 2018, 05:02:19 PM
I've never tried using sandpaper to do surfacing, mainly use scotch-brite, abralon/siaair, and Neat pads with decent results.  Dumb question, but are you guys referring to using wet/dry sandpaper?  I might want to experiment with sandpaper and maybe try the Trizact pads too.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: charlest on March 02, 2018, 08:06:46 PM
I've never tried using sandpaper to do surfacing, mainly use scotch-brite, abralon/siaair, and Neat pads with decent results.  Dumb question, but are you guys referring to using wet/dry sandpaper?  I might want to experiment with sandpaper and maybe try the Trizact pads too.

Since you should always wet any abrasive used on a bowling ball, you should use wet/dry sandpaper.

The Trizact you want has a foam pad on the back like Abralon and Siaair, but it's much thinner. It still serves the purpose. Here's  sample:
https://www.autogeek.net/3m-5000-grit-foam-discs.html (https://www.autogeek.net/3m-5000-grit-foam-discs.html)
They come is 1000 grit, 3000 grit and 5000 grit of different sizes and shapes.

5" circular pads: https://www.amazon.com/3M-02096-Trizact-Hookit-P3000/dp/B005RMZRFY/ref=sr_1_7?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520042643&sr=1-7&keywords=trizact+foam+pads (https://www.amazon.com/3M-02096-Trizact-Hookit-P3000/dp/B005RMZRFY/ref=sr_1_7?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520042643&sr=1-7&keywords=trizact+foam+pads)

2 3/4" x 5 1/2" sheets: https://www.amazon.com/30190-Trizact-Hookit-P3000-Sheet/dp/B00DCMM46G/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520042643&sr=1-4&keywords=trizact+foam+pads&dpID=419MM8rGn9L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch (https://www.amazon.com/30190-Trizact-Hookit-P3000-Sheet/dp/B00DCMM46G/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520042643&sr=1-4&keywords=trizact+foam+pads&dpID=419MM8rGn9L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)

3" circular pads: https://www.amazon.com/02087-Trizact-Hookit-P3000-Grit/dp/B002M1PEHE/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520042643&sr=1-3&keywords=trizact+foam+pads&dpID=419d7B6ZykL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch (https://www.amazon.com/02087-Trizact-Hookit-P3000-Grit/dp/B002M1PEHE/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520042643&sr=1-3&keywords=trizact+foam+pads&dpID=419d7B6ZykL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: HackJandy on March 02, 2018, 10:54:38 PM
Here's the ones I have.  The 5000 was a little hard to find unless buying by the box.  Grainger stores usually have them in stock (also a great place to get the harder to find scotch brites).


https://www.amazon.com/3M-Trizact-Hookit-Discs-single/dp/B0082LJ0ZA/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1520052608&sr=8-14&keywords=trizact+3000

https://www.ebay.com/i/192129446361?chn=ps
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: JohnP on March 03, 2018, 04:50:09 PM
Wet/dry sandpaper does a fine job on bowling balls.  Fold it in quarters and use plenty of water.  Rotate the quarters when the paper gets plugged up.  --  JohnP
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: drillbit on March 03, 2018, 05:57:59 PM
I use sandpaper, abralon/siaair, trizact, and still have some NEAT pads(900G). They all have their uses: sandpaper for the rough cuts(800 grit and below), and the rest for the finer finishes.


drillbit
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: BObowler on March 06, 2018, 04:34:19 PM
Have a question regarding surface changing with the schotchbrite pads, our oiler broke down 4 weeks ago and the first week we bowled on a broke down pattern and I actually did ok. The next week the lanes were oiled by hand, yes by hand and it was quit the night!!! The card in the machine was replaced 2 weeks ago and they haven't been able to get a shot comparable to what we had, we now have alot more oil then before and avg's have been going down since. I want to put some surface on a Radical Jackpot that I use and have a green and maroon schotchbrite pad, do you recommend starting with 1 grit and going to the next or just go with one grit?
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: HackJandy on March 06, 2018, 04:57:24 PM
Have a question regarding surface changing with the schotchbrite pads, our oiler broke down 4 weeks ago and the first week we bowled on a broke down pattern and I actually did ok. The next week the lanes were oiled by hand, yes by hand and it was quit the night!!! The card in the machine was replaced 2 weeks ago and they haven't been able to get a shot comparable to what we had, we now have alot more oil then before and avg's have been going down since. I want to put some surface on a Radical Jackpot that I use and have a green and maroon schotchbrite pad, do you recommend starting with 1 grit and going to the next or just go with one grit?

Generally want to use the highest grit scotch brite you can get away with as your final step.  Maroon and Green are pretty low grit.  You might want to get yourself a grey or even white scotch brite also to try first.  When you go to low of grit you can actually reduce your hook because your ball will see too much friction too early and roll out (ie the moar surface, more pocket splits trap).  Plus green and especially maroon are so low of grit that with one game the ball's effective grit will be much higher anyway.  I tend to only use maroon as a first step during reactive resurfaces and as a last step touch up by hand on my urethane balls (they need much lower grit and generally hold surface better).  When I do use green I will use it after maroon and then I will almost always apply a polish or compound as a final step.  Surface management really is a trial and error thing based on your style, the balls you are using and the conditions you see.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: BObowler on March 06, 2018, 06:08:57 PM
Those were the only 2 pads I have on hand, will see if I can find a white tomorrow and give it a try, league is tomorrow night and want to see what a surface change will do. Thanks
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: charlest on March 06, 2018, 07:26:24 PM
Those were the only 2 pads I have on hand, will see if I can find a white tomorrow and give it a try, league is tomorrow night and want to see what a surface change will do. Thanks

Try the green one first. The green is listed by 3M as being 600 grit CAMI. That is equivalent to 1200 grit FEPA, the standard grit rating system for all current abrasives: Abralon, Siaair, NEAT, ICE, and Trizact.

The light grey pad is 800 grit CAMI or 1500/1600 grit FEPA.

White Scotch-Brite uses talc or talcum powder as the abrasive. If it's good enough for a baby's bottom, it won't even mark something as hard as resin.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: HackJandy on March 06, 2018, 08:40:35 PM
Those were the only 2 pads I have on hand, will see if I can find a white tomorrow and give it a try, league is tomorrow night and want to see what a surface change will do. Thanks

Try the green one first. The green is listed by 3M as being 600 grit CAMI. That is equivalent to 1200 grit FEMA, the standard grit rating system for all current abrasives: Abralon, Siaair, NEAT, ICE, and Trizact.

The light grey pad is 800 grit CAMI or 1500/1600 grit FEMA.

White Scotch-Brite uses talc or talcum powder as the abrasive. If it's good enough for a baby's bottom, it won't even mark something as hard as resin.

Yeah the grey is what I use the most but white is more a finishing thing.  It really does take awhile to do much at all and is more something you do at the end to smooth out a finish. Agree with charlest and should focus more on picking up a grey.  Another thing you can try if the green is too much surface is buy yourself some Brunswick Royal Compound and use that either after the maroon or green to raise the surface grit.  Try the green first as maybe that is just the ticket.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: Aloarjr810 on March 06, 2018, 09:50:55 PM

Try the green one first. The green is listed by 3M as being 600 grit CAMI. That is equivalent to 1200 grit FEMA, the standard grit rating system for all current abrasives: Abralon, Siaair, NEAT, ICE, and Trizact.

The light grey pad is 800 grit CAMI or 1500/1600 grit FEMA.

White Scotch-Brite uses talc or talcum powder as the abrasive. If it's good enough for a baby's bottom, it won't even mark something as hard as resin.

FEMA??

It's FEPA the European "Federation of European Producers of Abrasives" P-Scale/Grade
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: MI 2 AZ on March 06, 2018, 10:35:23 PM

Try the green one first. The green is listed by 3M as being 600 grit CAMI. That is equivalent to 1200 grit FEMA, the standard grit rating system for all current abrasives: Abralon, Siaair, NEAT, ICE, and Trizact.

The light grey pad is 800 grit CAMI or 1500/1600 grit FEMA.

White Scotch-Brite uses talc or talcum powder as the abrasive. If it's good enough for a baby's bottom, it won't even mark something as hard as resin.

FEMA??

It's FEPA the European "Federation of European Producers of Abrasives" P-Scale/Grade


Yeah, he knows that.  It's just a senior moment.  :)   I have that all the time.

Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: jkirkerx on March 06, 2018, 11:33:28 PM
I would happy with sand paper, 3M black wet dry. I use it at home on projects like head light lens and color sanding paint. But the highest grit I have is P1000.

Iím not too hip to the price of abralon pads and their short life span. I should shop Alibaba for cheaper ones made in China.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: charlest on March 07, 2018, 08:06:19 AM

Try the green one first. The green is listed by 3M as being 600 grit CAMI. That is equivalent to 1200 grit FEMA, the standard grit rating system for all current abrasives: Abralon, Siaair, NEAT, ICE, and Trizact.

The light grey pad is 800 grit CAMI or 1500/1600 grit FEMA.

White Scotch-Brite uses talc or talcum powder as the abrasive. If it's good enough for a baby's bottom, it won't even mark something as hard as resin.

FEMA??

It's FEPA the European "Federation of European Producers of Abrasives" P-Scale/Grade

Sorry. Been along time since I had to tell someone about that. I corrected it.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: BObowler on March 07, 2018, 08:21:29 AM
I have a good friend that owns a body shop and not sure what they use, if anyone has any idea what should I ask from him?
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: itsallaboutme on March 07, 2018, 09:05:12 AM
He probably has wet/dry paper to at least 2000 and maybe finer if he does higher end paint jobs.  If not he could always order finer grits from his supplier.  Or you can go to any auto paint/auto body supply and they sell all the grits by the sheet. 

Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: BObowler on March 07, 2018, 09:19:49 AM
So just to clarify, my Jackpot is still factory finish 500/4000 by the online specs but has alot of games on it this year and I do clean it after every night of bowling, what grit should I try to get that would help get some more traction,1000?
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: itsallaboutme on March 07, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
There is no right answer.  Put something on and go throw it.  Experiment and find the reaction you are looking for. 
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: BObowler on March 07, 2018, 09:33:56 AM
I'l give something a try before tonight,maybe I'l find the magic grit sure can't hurt after what's been working lately or not working.
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: HackJandy on March 07, 2018, 10:01:46 AM
I'l give something a try before tonight,maybe I'l find the magic grit sure can't hurt after what's been working lately or not working.

Also just as an FYI generally maroon following by green will give you more traction than green alone assuming your base grit to start was higher than the maroon (safe assumption as after as little as three games your effective base grit will often jump over 3000 regarrdless of starting grit without polish).
Title: Re: Guy told me he uses sand paper instead of abralon....
Post by: BObowler on March 07, 2018, 10:05:54 AM
I will stop at the body shop and see if he has a better option for me other wise I will use what I have and see what happens.