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Author Topic: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC  (Read 17044 times)

Luke Rosdahl

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A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« on: December 18, 2017, 11:33:23 AM »
First of all, personally I don't care.  If it's legal, I'll bowl with it, if it's not, I won't, don't care.  I think USBC is missing a chance to differentiate recreation from sport though.  The average bowler doesn't get patterns.  Yeah the blue oil looks cool on the PBA shows, but there's no blue oil at league, so they have no basis for comparison.  You can show them lane graphs and pictures, but until they actually see it AND bowl on it, they're not going to get it or understand.  HOWEVER, it's really easy to understand the difference between college baseball players using aluminum bats and the pros using wood, and it's nothing that has to be explained to be understood.  All you have to say is that the pros have equipment restrictions, they can't use the balls that make it "easier" to score like league bowlers can, because when people see pros using the same balls they do bowling on lanes that look the same as theirs, they see no difference. 

Now the issue for the manufacturers becomes that they lose advertisement for balls that aren't legal for use on the PBA, but I really don't think the PBA has much influence on ball purchases anymore.  Literally not once in the last three years have I had anyone come into the shop and say, "I want the ball -insert random pro- won with the other day."  I could be wrong, but 10-15 years ago, that happened all the time.  Somebody would win with a ball on a Sunday, and Monday I'd have people in there wanting one.  Now it seems to be primarily consumer and manufacturer driven. 

This idea makes sense to me, continue with the current specs, but put spec restrictions on equipment for use in higher level competition.  The funny thing is it doesn't even matter, most people I know use equipment that's inside the new rumored specs anyway, not going to hurt my feelings, but it could hurt manufacturers who all the sudden lose maybe a couple ball lines, and more limited specs means more limited reactions which means more limited choices which means less revenue most likely.  There NEEDS to be a bolder line between recreation and sport, and it needs to be achieved without adjusting the recreation side. 
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Juggernaut

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2017, 12:49:28 PM »
 Juggernaut
<Gets out his soapbox, and steps up onto it>

 Whining solves nothing, and it looks bad on you. I should know, as I have been known to do some myself.

 I heard something once about fairness, and while I cannot remember the quote exactly, the gist of it was that nothing was as unfair as trying to make unfair things fair.

 You CAN NOT make sports, or games, inherently fair. There will ALWAYS be those able to find things or ways they can exploit.

 AND THEY WILL ALWAYS WHINE WHEN THAT THING OR WAY IS TAKEN FROM THEM.

 I should know. I had that at one point. I had physical abilities that allowed me to get bowling balls to do what most could not. I was exceptional at it, and the low dynamic cores, urethane covers, and short oil patterns played to my strengths.

 I DID NOT LIKE IT WHEN THAT WAS CHANGED.

 I also didn’t/don’t like reactive resin. I also didn’t/don’t like super dynamic cores, or oil soaking cover stocks. I considered it UNFAIR to give people equipment that allowed them to do what I could do. I thought they should have to learn and practice the same techniques I had, and that they should have to develop the same physical abilities as I had had to learn.

 My opinion, however, changed or stopped NOTHING. Yours won’t either.

 Why? Because agenda.  Someone ALWAYS has one, and it has absolutely nothing to do with fairness.

 Ball makers want to sell balls. Anything that might impact them doing so will be touted, in some way, as either stupid, inane, useless, or unfair to them. Left to their own desires, there would soon be far too many choices for people to make any sense of. We are almost, if not already, there.


 Ruling bodies are similar. They want to set playing rules they think are relevant, but challenge them on that, and you will be labeled blind, short sighted, and biased to your own viewpoints. Left to their own desires, they would soon choke out everyone except the elite that agree with them.

 The true problem is human nature. Until we learn to look past our own interests, we are locked into a frustrating battle of opinions that eventually manages to ruin even the best things.

 Long story cut just a bit shorter is, don’t focus so much on how fair, or unfair, the rules are. Rules makers will do just that, make rules. Some will be good and effective, some will be dumb and useless.

 Just focus in good faith on doing the best you can, within the legal limits set forth by those in power and know that everyone with integrity, honor, and desire will do the same. Know your limits, and be happy inside them.

<Steps down off his soapbox, tips his hat, and walks away>
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AlonzoHarris

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2017, 12:58:25 PM »
If only Chad wouldn't be so blind to see these rule changes are nothing more than hurdles for ball manufacturers, for everyone to arrive on the same exact path we're on now. So my .050 diff balls that I drill with a 5" pin become .042 diff balls I drill with a 4" pin. The only thing Chad is shaking up with these useless changes are ball manufacturers R&D departments to modify existing cores, etc.

Us bowlers shouldn't even be the main stakeholders in the push back - it should be the ball co's.   
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HackJandy

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2017, 01:02:33 PM »
Well said but honestly don't even care about fair or unfair really.  Just resent rug being pulled on equipment I already bought.  Makes me not want to spend any more on balls for sure as once bitten.  The game changing is a given but screwing over paying customers is a given to a faster death.  Banning previously allowed equipment is the part of this that is new (not counting when ball maker screws up) and total garbage.  Wonder how many balls would sell if the manufacturer said up front on a big ass label.  This ball will only be legal for at most 5 years.  Staffers wouldn't care but Joe Public might when they drop a couple hundred dollars.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 01:19:34 PM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

Juggernaut

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2017, 01:19:13 PM »
Well said but honestly don't even care about fair or unfair really.  Just resent rug being pulled on equipment I already bought.  Makes me not want to spend any more on balls for sure as once bitten.  The game changing is a given but screwing over paying customers is a given to a faster death.

 And I was bitter over rug being pulled on physical abilities I had spent years tying to perfect.
 I was told not to look at it as screwing me over, that change was inevitable, that it was just a natural evolution of the game, and that I should shut up and “evolve or die”.

 Nobody held a gun to your head to make you buy all those balls. USBC is betting you’ll buy some more. If you won’t, then you are irrelevant anyway. They are only interested in what’s yet to come, not what has already been.

 I’m still here. You’ll stay too
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HackJandy

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2017, 01:22:10 PM »
Well said but honestly don't even care about fair or unfair really.  Just resent rug being pulled on equipment I already bought.  Makes me not want to spend any more on balls for sure as once bitten.  The game changing is a given but screwing over paying customers is a given to a faster death.

 And I was bitter over rug being pulled on physical abilities I had spent years tying to perfect.
 I was told not to look at it as screwing me over, that change was inevitable, that it was just a natural evolution of the game, and that I should shut up and “evolve or die”.

 Nobody held a gun to your head to make you buy all those balls. USBC is betting you’ll buy some more. If you won’t, then you are irrelevant anyway. They are only interested in what’s yet to come, not what has already been.

 I’m still here. You’ll stay too

Actually like I said its all moot (still thanks for some perspective).  Was going to bowl a USBC league and tournaments next year but not now.  Perfectly fine with staying in the just for fun category in non USBC leagues instead of stepping up to the more competitive category if it means I don't give them a dime.  They can't take bowling away all they can do is take themselves away as I don't need competition to enjoy the game.  As for looking forward might not be a lot to look forward if they aren't careful.  Time is already not really on their side.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 01:35:06 PM by HackJandy »
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2017, 01:46:52 PM »
Again, I don't really care.  I like big asym cores but rarely get to use them.  Most of what I use is in the low to med rg, med diff range.  Companies will just get more creative.  Just like Mo makes cores that retain their predrilled specs after drilling, they'll make cores that meet tolerances but balloon back up to .060 when they're drilled.  Literally nothing to be gained from adjusting specs, only possible outcome is him losing. 
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Juggernaut

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2017, 02:11:04 PM »
Oh, I know guys.

 Not dissing anyone or their views.

 Just pointing out the futility of being a person that likes things the way they were/are before people start insisting on changing things just for the sake of change.

 I’ve adapted, and adopted, and accepted. I’ve realized that the powers that be weren’t/aren’t interested in what people like some of us who have already invested themselves into things think, only in people who are going to invest more from this point on.

 I’m 57 now. Not going to be buying lots of equipment, or going to lots of tournaments. I’ll bowl a league (or two if possible), buy a ball (or two MAYBE), but that’s it. I might even go to nationals once, just because I’ve always wanted to, but that’s about it. So I have become irrelevant, at least from the viewpoint of the governing body and the bowling manufacturers.

 The myth of being able to “vote with your dollars” doesn’t really work for me anymore, cause I ain’t spending all that many on bowling. Hell, I’m trying to pad that 401k right now.   :D
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HackJandy

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2017, 03:35:32 PM »
Oh, I know guys.

 Not dissing anyone or their views.

 Just pointing out the futility of being a person that likes things the way they were/are before people start insisting on changing things just for the sake of change.

 I’ve adapted, and adopted, and accepted. I’ve realized that the powers that be weren’t/aren’t interested in what people like some of us who have already invested themselves into things think, only in people who are going to invest more from this point on.

 I’m 57 now. Not going to be buying lots of equipment, or going to lots of tournaments. I’ll bowl a league (or two if possible), buy a ball (or two MAYBE), but that’s it. I might even go to nationals once, just because I’ve always wanted to, but that’s about it. So I have become irrelevant, at least from the viewpoint of the governing body and the bowling manufacturers.

 The myth of being able to “vote with your dollars” doesn’t really work for me anymore, cause I ain’t spending all that many on bowling. Hell, I’m trying to pad that 401k right now.   :D

Yeah in the end only like maybe 4 or 5 of my 20+ balls may be in danger and only one of them I consider a non condition specific ball (assuming Hy-Road will be allowed as that is a deal breaker for more than me I assume).  Even then likely to be years in the future before banned and so my ability to compete isn't compromised that much if at all.  That said still don't want to give the USBC a dime now and this whole business was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.  Doing it more for me than thinking the USBC is ever going to change.  At least aren't going to pay them to sit on their thumbs and think of more ways of banning my equipment on the altar of their ego tournament.  That is the hard pill for me to take.  If the USBC was coming at this from good intentions a good decade late that would be one thing but this is much more about Chad reactive bruised ego butt hurt than anything.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 04:10:08 PM by HackJandy »
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ignitebowling

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2017, 05:21:10 PM »
From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!

Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045

So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.

I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment  wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.

Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.

Ignite your game, and set the lanes on fire. www.facebook.com/ignitebowling  or @ignite_bowling

ignitebowling

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2017, 05:22:22 PM »
This would make for an awesome meltdown in bowling based off of ignorance and arrogance.

To tie this in with sport of bowling vs the game is simple. The difference is the conditions and environment bowled on, not the equipment.

This doen't change that for the common bowlers who see a pro shoot 195 on tv and think they can do better because they average 211 in their one night a week league. Just like golf....until you are standing at the black tees you will not be able to convince someone it is not the same course as the white or yellow tees.
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leftybowler70

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2017, 05:29:13 PM »
Hopefully they will be more reasonable and have to differential around .047 or .048 seems more fair imo...

milorafferty

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2017, 05:47:19 PM »
From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!

Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045

So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.

I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment  wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.

Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.




Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.
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BossTull

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2017, 06:08:01 PM »
.045 Diff once the grace period is over who is going to enforce it. Leagues , tournaments? You would have to have stats on every ball then weight them. Diff by weights may vary and may or may not be within limits Take the Hy-Road 16 is.058 15 is .046 14 is .037. Track Logix 16 is .040 15 is .046 and 14 is .048.  So some weights are legal some are not. Just to suggest a Diff limit .045 and give a grace period is  crazy.
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HackJandy

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2017, 06:11:17 PM »
.045 Diff once the grace period is over who is going to enforce it. Leagues , tournaments? You would have to have stats on every ball then weight them. Diff by weights may vary and may or may not be within limits Take the Hy-Road 16 is.058 15 is .046 14 is .037. Track Logix 16 is .040 15 is .046 and 14 is .048.  So some weights are legal some are not. Just to suggest a Diff limit .045 and give a grace period is  crazy.

^^^this.
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morpheus

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Re: A thought on the proposed ball specs adjustment by USBC
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2017, 06:19:49 PM »
From a manufacture stand point this is PURE GOLD!!!!

Hypothetically speaking lets say the idea of having a 5 year grace period is enacted for bowling balls to meet the criteria before being considered illegal. Lets say the magic number for bowling ball DIFF is .045

So not only are all bowlers going to have to buy new equipment (because so many bowling balls are .045 or higher on diff in most weights) but bowlers with "gems" are going to have a worthless collection of bowling balls.

I recently sold a NIB Track Synergy pearl which core is "illegal" to make under todays specs but when the ball itself is drilled and compared to todays equipment  wouldn't be passed midline in any performance series at best.

Now all of these manufactures and distributors are going to have to start watching quantities on what they make or order because you do not want to get stuck with a bunch of bowling balls that are worthless.




Exactly. And let us not forget, Chad "douchebag" Murphy has roots in the ball manufacturing industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a payoff being discussed.

I literally thought I was suffering from Alzheimer’s when I read this comment from miloraferty disparaging our illustrious Executive Director so I had to go back and read his previous posts defending all things USBC. Fortunately for me, no Alzheimer’s, I found all those past comments so I have to ask...what changed your mind about the Executive “Douchebag” Director?
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