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Author Topic: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????  (Read 1749 times)

spmcgivern

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Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« on: May 22, 2018, 01:32:15 PM »
Something has bothered me for quite a while and I would like to get other’s opinion to see if I am crazy or not.

My beef pertains to the payout distribution of our state USBC tournament.  I am sure it is run similarly to other states with a similar distribution of bowlers across multiple divisions.  My state has 5 divisions and like other states have Team, Doubles, Singles and All-Events.  What I can’t understand is the practice of giving the same 1st and 2nd place prize money for all divisions regardless of the number of entries. 

For example, the state pays out in roughly a 1:10 ratio. For Division 1 Team event there was a total payout of $5,605 with 1st getting $1,500 and 2nd getting $1,000.  For Division 3 Team Event the total payout was $11,000 with 1st getting $1,500 and 2nd getting $1,000.  That’s right, a division with half the entries of another division got the same amount of money.

Also of note, 3rd place for the same Division 3 Team event received $672 (no ties) while 3rd place for Division 4 (total payout of $9,180 - $1,820 LESS than Division 3) received $726.

This isn’t a case of money from one division being distributed to other divisions.  What happens is the payout for places below the top two are SIGNIFICANTLY reduced to compensate for the bloated 1st and 2nd place prizes.  There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to the prize money values.  The same issues are found in all of the events.  Also of note is the distribution of All-Event places at what appears to be 1:10 when the rules state 1:20.  But that is another story.

I understand the large prizes in the smaller divisions encourages participation perhaps, however, much like Nationals, some bowlers realize they won’t win an event, but may cash.  Unfortunately that amount is smaller than what one my think it should be.

What are other opinions?  Am I crazy and making an issue out of nothing?  This happens year after year with no statements about the philosophy of the payout structure. 

 

ignitebowling

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Re: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 02:37:36 PM »
Not sure on payout ratio for here in Arkansas  but I can tell you their fees are as good as the prize fund.

Entry per bowler,  per event is $6.15
Expense per bowler,  per event is $5.85.

So if you bowl all 3 events you pay $18.45 to the prize funds and $17.55 in expenses.
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baer300

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Re: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2018, 02:41:42 PM »
PA just has scratch and handicap. Handicap pays more than scratch. Expenses are high as well. don't know the number off hand but know they are high
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Pinbuster

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Re: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2018, 02:46:47 PM »
Most USBC tournaments I know of around here the payout is generally around 1 in 5 entries.

I don't think I  have ever seen 1 in 10.

I don't know how your tournament was advertised.

I'm pretty sure if they advertise a certain prize for 1st place they have to pay that out regardless of the number of entries. So if they said $1500 for first and had only 5 entries they would still have to pay $1500. And it seems like a certain number of places has to a percentage of 1st place. 

Sometimes this means there is not a lot of money left to pay places outside the top 5 or so if entries are low.

spmcgivern

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Re: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2018, 03:02:32 PM »
Payout is advertised only as 1:10, nothing about a set amount for any particular place.

Main problem is I am an analyst for my job and normally wouldn't have cared too much about this.  But it came to my attention after having a great weekend a couple years ago where I thought I had won state scratch all-events only to find out my captain didn't put me in it.  It wasn't really his fault, I had an injury the year before and my average was 2 pins below the threshold when I am usually above it by a good amount. He thought I would automatically be put in scratch.

When all was said and done, I finished 3rd in handicap all events.  This division had nearly 3 times as many entrants as scratch, yet, I received less for 3rd than 3rd for the scratch division.  First and second for both were the same.  This led me to look at other years and saw similar inconsistencies.

Sometimes I hate that I am the way I am.  This isn't causing world hunger or anything like that, yet it bothers me to no end.

spmcgivern

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Re: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2018, 03:04:18 PM »
Unfortunately they roll up the expenses with the lineage here so you don't know how much it is they are taking. 

For 2018, $13 per event for prize fund and $17 for lineage and expenses ($30 total per event).  All-events is $10 with $9 for prize fund and $1 for expenses.

HankScorpio

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Re: Are all USBC State Tournament payouts jacked up????
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2018, 03:25:08 PM »
In Ohio, if IIRC, the state tournament is considered a handicap tournament. There are Team, Doubles, Singles, All-events events, but no divisions within those events. All entry money that goes to the prize fund is for the handicap prize fund specifically. I believe 1:5 get paid.

Additionally, there is an optional scratch (for something like $10 per event). All funds go to the scratch prize fund. I believe it’s also 1:5 payout.