win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy  (Read 9336 times)

ITZPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« on: March 17, 2017, 09:36:27 AM »
I'm really curious about the feedback I'm going to get on this one . . it's a fairly "controversial" topic and I don't pull any punches on any of it.  Thanks for watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2b9Zd0u-Oc
Storm Amateur Staff
Turbo Regional Staff

 

SVstar34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5451
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 11:21:41 AM »
Great discussion, I definitely agree with pretty much everything you said

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 01:57:36 PM »
Been saying for years that the USBC overwhelmingly focuses on the elite 2%. Their entire focus is on the "Sport of Bowling" and while there is a small segment of membership that it's very important too, tournaments and the PWBA are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of our members. Just my opinion, but it seems like in order to grow membership we need far more investment in understanding what the other 98% want, but I'm sure miloraferty and Gene J Kanak will be on shortly to defend the 2%.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11152
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 02:42:38 PM »
Been saying for years that the USBC overwhelmingly focuses on the elite 2%. Their entire focus is on the "Sport of Bowling" and while there is a small segment of membership that it's very important too, tournaments and the PWBA are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of our members. Just my opinion, but it seems like in order to grow membership we need far more investment in understanding what the other 98% want, but I'm sure miloraferty and Gene J Kanak will be on shortly to defend the 2%.

Do you actually bowl?
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 03:04:04 PM »
Been saying for years that the USBC overwhelmingly focuses on the elite 2%. Their entire focus is on the "Sport of Bowling" and while there is a small segment of membership that it's very important too, tournaments and the PWBA are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of our members. Just my opinion, but it seems like in order to grow membership we need far more investment in understanding what the other 98% want, but I'm sure miloraferty and Gene J Kanak will be on shortly to defend the 2%.

Do you actually bowl?

Thanks for asking, there are a lot of unsanctioned tournaments, mostly scratch, that keep me active in the sport. I bowled about 14 tournaments last year and am on pace for about 16-18 this year.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11152
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 03:05:16 PM »
Been saying for years that the USBC overwhelmingly focuses on the elite 2%. Their entire focus is on the "Sport of Bowling" and while there is a small segment of membership that it's very important too, tournaments and the PWBA are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of our members. Just my opinion, but it seems like in order to grow membership we need far more investment in understanding what the other 98% want, but I'm sure miloraferty and Gene J Kanak will be on shortly to defend the 2%.

Do you actually bowl?

Thanks for asking, there are a lot of unsanctioned tournaments, mostly scratch, that keep me active in the sport. I bowled about 14 tournaments last year and am on pace for about 16-18 this year.

Fair enough.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gene J Kanak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 03:15:11 PM »
I'm only chiming in since you felt the need to mention me in your response, Morpheus. For the record, while I agree with some of what the gentleman on the video had to say, I still am disappointed by USBC's decision to keep everything so hush hush and to nix the live streaming, which is something I've enjoyed. For a sport that wants exposure, pretending cameras and video don't exist seems silly.

tburky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1071
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 09:02:36 PM »
 I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 10:07:16 AM »

Luke, great analysis. I too agree with most of what you said. None of it should be considered politically incorrect.   :)

leftybowler70

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1710
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 10:56:26 AM »
^^   ^^

giddyupddp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 12:03:14 PM »
Excellent EP 2
I agreed with everything said as a good league once a week bowler but far from the elite level. I can no longer convince my friends to even go to the Nationals anymore. Went to about 10 over the years and my goal was just to cash and only did that a few times. I loved the challenge and all that goes with the Nationals but I totally understand my friends reasoning for no longer wanting to participate when they did not enjoy the bowling experience.

ITZPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2017, 03:10:14 PM »
Thanks for the support everyone, really appreciate it.  HOWEVER, I'm ok if someone disagrees.  With the tournament involving 10k+ teams, you're going to have some differing views.  If you go back a few years, I was the guy saying leagues need to be tougher, and handicap needed to be addressed, and tournaments need to be tougher.  "If people want to compete, they should just get better," that was the narrative, and to a certain extent it's true.  However I have two points that I found from discussion after posting the episode:

1. USBC is basically a business . . if you cater to 5% of your customer base at the expense of the other 95%, you will go out of business.  If the 5% want the 95% to stick around and keep handing over their money, they're going to have to make concessions somewhere.  At one point when there were 15k+ team entries a year, something right or something correct was going on then. 

2. There is a question that really stumps the middle section of that 2-5%, which is the largest percentage of that group, the professional amateurs.  The guys that will shark stuff like this but won't bowl professionally.  I had a discussion with a buddy who did the whole, "it needs to be tough and people need to get better and we can't cater to the handicappers," and I asked him, "ok, then why don't you bowl the Masters and the US Open and do the PBA Regional circuit?"  The answer?  "Well I don't want to take it THAT serious, that's a ton of work and effort and I just want to do well in sweepers and these kinds of tournaments."  EXACTLY.  But it's not ok for the regular league bowler to say the same about the OC? 

Where is the incentive for a 190 average house bowler to compete in the tournament?  Other than to basically set a handful of Benjamins on fire?  How does that guy that has a family and a regular job talk his wife into letting him go? 

"Well are you going to win money?"

No.

"Well where's it at?"

Reno.

"Oh so there's stuff there you want to go do?"

No, there's really nothing to do in Reno.

"Oh.  So what's the point in going then?" 

Well there are a handful of really good bowlers that bowl the tournament, and to keep the tournament alive, me and thousands like me have to go hand over our money to them to keep them happy.

"So are you at least going to have fun?" 

Probably not, the conditions are so hard even some of the great bowlers don't do so well, so I'm most likely going to bowl really bad . . but it's ok, because I'm helping to fund their bowling career.  Apparently I'm supposed to do this and be happy about it. 


You kidding me? 
Storm Amateur Staff
Turbo Regional Staff

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 05:07:57 PM »
Thanks for the support everyone, really appreciate it.  HOWEVER, I'm ok if someone disagrees. 

 
Not necessarily a disagreement, but I'm not sure that a switch to catering to the 95% would result in a commensurate increase in tournament participation. If you made conditions easier, you'd lose some percentage existing bowlers. In my case, I have no illusions about my ability relative to the upper tier. I'm definitely not part of the 5%. Still, I'm happy if I bowl 1800-1900 in all events and win a few bucks in brackets. I go because of the challenge and all the pageantry surrounding a tough tournament. If conditions get watered down, I won't go. I get enough of that kind of bowling in my THS leagues. I know of several teams in my area that would stop going too. They don't want a replay of the local county tournament. 
 
So the question, would enough new teams be attracted to offset the loses from a change? I don't know the answer to that. It would be interesting to know.

jumba98

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2017, 08:51:51 PM »
I go every year knowing its going to be the most difficult shot I will see all year. Its why I go to see how you stack up against the best in the world. I agree if you want easy stay home and bowl your local tournaments. Plus  a reality check never hurts and lets you know your not as good as you think you are. I will agree the secrecy of the pattern needs to go away!

noslouch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 10:02:05 PM »
 Why do you need to know what the pattern will be? If you watched his video you pretty much get what has to say about it. The length of pattern dictates how much volume of oil is applied to the lane surface. The pattern hasn't really changed all that much from year to year for the last ten years. besides the one year the pattern was short with more oil volume. That is the only variation over time. If you bowled decent enough the years prior using virtually the same equipment then you don't have a need to know what the pattern is.