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Author Topic: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy (Read 3760 times)

ITZPS

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Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
on: March 17, 2017, 09:36:27 AM
I'm really curious about the feedback I'm going to get on this one . . it's a fairly "controversial" topic and I don't pull any punches on any of it.  Thanks for watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2b9Zd0u-Oc
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #16 on: March 19, 2017, 06:19:29 AM
There are plenty of people that go that have jumba98's attitude about going.  There are also plenty of people that don't bowl for the money aspect (not just nationals, but in general).  They just love to bowl.  But amateurs bowling for money is a whole other Oprah.

The problem with softening the lane conditions is that they would have to make a huge jump the other direction to have a significant effect.  If you go from the slightly less than 2:1 ratio they are now using to something say in the 4:1 or 5:1 ratio that is still too difficult for the average Joe to loosen up his swing, but it gives the good bowler something they will exploit. (Wallin' 'em up for the good bowlers). It would make the scoring gap even greater.  So if you make the huge jump to so the conditions aren't in that range then it becomes a carry contest. 

It is just a problem of bowling right now.  To keep the scores lower you have to take the pocket away.  That used to take care of itself way back when because not many people could strike sliding in the left gutter with a plastic or urethane ball.

Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 06:21:21 AM by itsallaboutme

Strapper_Squared

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #17 on: March 19, 2017, 05:08:15 PM
Alright..  here is is...Someone had to say it....

Sucks that your not able to drink beer!

If everyone hasn't gotten it yet, that IS the point of the videos 😋!

BTW - was out your way a few weeks ago...  Stopped in and had some KC Bier - Love the Dunkle!

Oh.. back to the topic.

It absolutely doesn't matter for me.  I'm a league bowler who throws on a flatter shot twice a year - my state tournament and nationals.  I suck and can't repeat shots precisely enough to score of these patterns.  My team plays where they feel comfortable - generally all over the place.  We don't take a companion team, so get randomly matched up with who knows who.  I could bowl on the exact pattern every week for a month prior to the tournament and still not shoot 650+. 

Years that I bowled well, I bowled second shift and caught a pair where there was a defined spot down lane and a little area.  Now that they are oiled every shift and that doesn't occur - my chances of scoring are about zero.

I suspect, the majority of bowlers are more similar to me than the "elite" too few percent that these rules were intended to influence.  It just doesn't matter for me.

I am a bit annoyed with the no video rule.  I enjoy watching the live feeds of the better teams - and some of the not-so-better teams from back home.  Way to take that away USBC.  Let me guess - next year there will be no high -fives or compliment s to teammates.

Scott
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storybook123

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #18 on: March 19, 2017, 06:36:01 PM
Hey, I think that was a great video. This is going to be my first time bowling in a nationals tournament at the age of 30, and I avg around 195-200. I originally was annoyed that they didn't release the pattern, but you make a valid point watching ball reaction will be more important than what is actually released. I will be bringing 4-6 balls with me and I need to watch what my equipment is going to do. The only real thing that knowing how long the pattern is using the rule of 31, but beyond that I can make do. I do wish there was more live stream coverage of this event, as I have never watched it before so as a first time bowler coming it there isnt too much to get my excited that im coming out to bowl.

noslouch

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #19 on: March 19, 2017, 07:18:11 PM
 For the first game of singles and doubles use a ball with surface. after that use what ever feels comfortable with your release. Don't over think the shot. Go with a mindset of repeating good shots. For team, play the track. Keep in mind there is out of bounds. Unless you have a slow enough ball speed to further out from your team mates. Worst would being left handed. You'd be pretty much left to play 15 to 10 minding your ball speed.

storybook123

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #20 on: March 19, 2017, 07:21:45 PM
For the first game of singles and doubles use a ball with surface. after that use what ever feels comfortable with your release. Don't over think the shot. Go with a mindset of repeating good shots. For team, play the track. Keep in mind there is out of bounds. Unless you have a slow enough ball speed to further out from your team mates. Worst would being left handed. You'd be pretty much left to play 15 to 10 minding your ball speed.


I was planning on bringing my Pitbull, Fanatic SS, Quantum Fire, and all three vandals.

noslouch

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #21 on: March 19, 2017, 07:49:29 PM
 Get some practice in before going. Never mind the scoring and just focus on hitting boards at 15ft to 30ft from the line. When you repeat your shots your ball speed won't vary so much.
 Vary the ball surface for each ball. Team will play a little more open for swing. Half way thru first game you'll probably be happy to settle with the fire quantum. Not knowing how you bowl. Good luck when you do go.

ITZPS

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #22 on: March 19, 2017, 08:53:55 PM
See and points like this is why I'm open to disagreements.  We all know that something is wrong, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I have all the answers to fix it.  However, something needs to be changed that will make the bulk of your participants happy, so that thousands return home, tell their friends how much better it was, and ultimately start the tournament growing again.  The elite 2-5% will never have any real impact on the tournament.  If they all quit, barely a blip on the radar.  Say they're 5% of the 10k teams, that's 500 teams, drops to 9500.  We hit 17k at one point, and the drop didn't come out of that 2-5%. 

I ultimately share your view.  I liked how the tournament was the last couple years, it can stay that way and I'd be thrilled.  But that just shows the disparity between views.  Tournaments like Greater Ozarks thrive and grow despite having handicap, and records set in both singles (879 to win) and all events (2347 to win).  Not only that but it's in the same city in the same centers every single year.  Not only that but it draws big names.  Andrew Cain leading virtually everything, CDB up on the board as well, last year my doubles singles squad included Justin Hromek, Chris Johnson, Paul Koehler, Rick Steelsmith, and Lonnie Waliczek.  It's a handicap tournament on house shots, yet it draws year after year.  What's it doing right that the OC is doing wrong? 

All I know is that I deal with the average league bowler multiple times on a daily basis, and the second I stopped trying to push everyone into the perfect ball with the perfect fit and the perfect layout and push them to get better, once I relaxed and realized that not everyone wants to be a pro, not everyone wants to get better, not everyone wants to take it so seriously, my mindset changed, I'm having tons of fun to begin with, customers are happier, and business is the best it's ever been.  Sometimes I shed a few tears when I do some really wrong things to bowling balls that the customer insisted on, but when their eyes light up and say it's perfect, THAT is what matters.  The OC is being treated like a general admission Masters or US Open tournament and the vast majority of the 95% don't like it and honestly I have zero clue why they keep going.  I hear nothing but griping and complaining and confusion while the 2-5% just grin and lick their chops.  All the secrecy this year is doing is hindering education. 

The second something ceases to be fun to someone is when they lose interest.  Everyone has a different definition of fun, and you can't completely cater to them all, but even I can say I have a hell of a lot more fun at Greater Ozarks than I have at the OC, and THAT doesn't make much sense. 

Thanks for the support everyone, really appreciate it.  HOWEVER, I'm ok if someone disagrees. 

 
Not necessarily a disagreement, but I'm not sure that a switch to catering to the 95% would result in a commensurate increase in tournament participation. If you made conditions easier, you'd lose some percentage existing bowlers. In my case, I have no illusions about my ability relative to the upper tier. I'm definitely not part of the 5%. Still, I'm happy if I bowl 1800-1900 in all events and win a few bucks in brackets. I go because of the challenge and all the pageantry surrounding a tough tournament. If conditions get watered down, I won't go. I get enough of that kind of bowling in my THS leagues. I know of several teams in my area that would stop going too. They don't want a replay of the local county tournament. 
 
So the question, would enough new teams be attracted to offset the loses from a change? I don't know the answer to that. It would be interesting to know.
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storybook123

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #23 on: March 19, 2017, 09:05:45 PM
Get some practice in before going. Never mind the scoring and just focus on hitting boards at 15ft to 30ft from the line. When you repeat your shots your ball speed won't vary so much.
 Vary the ball surface for each ball. Team will play a little more open for swing. Half way thru first game you'll probably be happy to settle with the fire quantum. Not knowing how you bowl. Good luck when you do go.

I practice a couple times a week, and meet up with my coach who is on staff who tells me what I need to focus on. I am working on remaining solid at the line, and just making sure I hit my mark every time. I know there will be maybe 1-2 boards for error, whereas in a league shot you can have a 5-8 board miss at times.

Bowl_Freak

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #24 on: March 21, 2017, 08:33:49 AM
I wont go anymore unless its within driving distance of my area, which it will never be. I dont have the $1000+ every year to spend on flights, rental car, and other things id need out there only to shoot 500. Then on top of that, if i bring my family, they cant enjoy themselves without the fear they will get kicked out if they take a video of "daddy" bowling. I like the tourney, and the last one i went to was El Paso, which i drove to, and it was just OK. Nice road trip about it. I use to be a competitive/serious bowler and my scores showed when i took game serious. But i slowed down, dont take it as serious now cause kids came, and now i probably fall into the 95% that DO want to go to the Open but want a fair and playable shot and have fun, shooting 500 is never fun. Yes i know, go and practice. Easier said then done. Single parenthood is hard and rewarding and something i chose over sticking with bowling 3-4 times a week.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #25 on: March 21, 2017, 08:55:43 AM
Would you go if you could shoot 600 but still had no chance to cash?  Is the shooting 500 the part that isn't fun or is not being competitive the part that isn't fun?

Good Times Good Times

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #26 on: March 21, 2017, 09:05:55 AM
if i bring my family, they cant enjoy themselves without the fear they will get kicked out if they take a video of "daddy" bowling.

Not being able to take a video would ruin the enjoyment of the trip?  That's A LOT of value on a quick vid...my God.  I would hope my family will be able to have a good time, IN VEGAS, w/o needing a vid of me.
Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 09:07:26 AM by Good Times Good Times
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Bowl_Freak

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #27 on: March 21, 2017, 09:35:36 AM
My kids are 8 & 9 so i wouldnt bring them to Vegas or Reno anyways. And i did bring my son to El Paso and he did take video of me bowling. I put a lot of value on my families enjoyment when they go with me. But most of the places the Nationals go now, Vegas, Reno, then somewhere else, then back to Reno and Vegas again doesnt make me want to go. Until my kids grow up and dont want to go on roadtrips with Daddy anymore, ill do my every 3rd year away from Nevada. Ill be looking forward to Syracuse though, have friends up that way so it will be worht it for me and my kids.
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Bowl_Freak

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #28 on: March 21, 2017, 09:42:05 AM
Would you go if you could shoot 600 but still had no chance to cash?  Is the shooting 500 the part that isn't fun or is not being competitive the part that isn't fun?
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Would you go if you could shoot 600 but still had no chance to cash?  Is the shooting 500 the part that isn't fun or is not being competitive the part that isn't fun?
No i probably wouldn't because i dont have the disposable income to waste knowing im probably not going to make anything off the tourney. Im not a bracket bowler so maybe im looking at it the wrong way cause more bowlers play brackets instead of worrying how they finish in the tournament proper.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #29 on: March 21, 2017, 09:54:27 AM
Then you just need to say that you use it as a family vacation when you do participate.  Which is fine, everyone has their reasons for going. 

Good Times Good Times

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Re: Beer Frame EP 2: Open Champs Secrecy
Reply #30 on: March 21, 2017, 10:00:14 AM
My kids are 8 & 9 so i wouldnt bring them to Vegas or Reno anyways.

Fair enough.  There are a lot of things in Vegas kids can do (not as much in Reno) though but still, I understand this.

And i did bring my son to El Paso and he did take video of me bowling.

That had to make the whole trip worth it.

I put a lot of value on my families enjoyment when they go with me.

As do I.  I have family coming to Vegas this year to watch.

But most of the places the Nationals go now, Vegas, Reno, then somewhere else, then back to Reno and Vegas again doesnt make me want to go.

To each their own.  I love Vegas (Reno not so much).

Until my kids grow up and dont want to go on roadtrips with Daddy anymore, ill do my every 3rd year away from Nevada.

My child will be born next month but I can tell you this much, Daddy will still have a Nationals trip.  There will be family vacations of course but I don't understand the need to take them everywhere, every time.  That doesn't mean I don't think they're the most important thing in the world.

Ill be looking forward to Syracuse though, have friends up that way so it will be worht it for me and my kids.

Are you sure?  They may not be able to take video of you in Syracuse if the rules remain.......won't that ruin everything?
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