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Author Topic: Surface discussion, some feedback please  (Read 4662 times)

Luke Rosdahl

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Surface discussion, some feedback please
« on: July 06, 2017, 11:12:53 AM »
Had a short video idea, wanted to run it by the brains here.  Surfaces have always fit in two categories for me, traction grits and shape grits.  Traction grits are 2000 and below, or I feel like 2000 is the surface you have to use or go below to start getting more than just a smoother shape, but to actually start to increase traction significantly.  Shape grits are 3000 and 4000, strong enough to start reading in the buff enough and reducing surface area contact between ball and lane enough to smooth wet/dry transition, but not enough to affect traction virtually at all before the end of the pattern.

Was going to explain it and break it down from there, but can anyone else see it this way, is making a video even necessary or helpful, or are there any flaws in what I'm saying or thinking?  Thanks. 
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2017, 02:29:58 PM »
Nah, I'm still gonna do it, just wanted to make sure I did it right.  Might be difficult to do, but some benefit is better than no benefit.  Even if I just explain the concept and make sure I say that everyone will have to adjust it to fit their situation, from my experience in a pro shop, if people don't like the ball as is, they just say it sucks and get rid of it before ever adjusting surface or adding a hole or trying anything.  If nothing else this helps me cover more bases.

I hope I didn't poopoo on the idea.  I love the idea of a video and anything is better than nothing even if it is just for you on whatever shot you use.  You have the gift of gab and I feel you could give a well thought out explanation of the theories to reach a wide audience.

Like let keyboard pounders like myself deter you from producing something you feel your constituents would find value in.
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charlest

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2017, 04:11:19 PM »
Nah, I'm still gonna do it, just wanted to make sure I did it right.  Might be difficult to do, but some benefit is better than no benefit.  Even if I just explain the concept and make sure I say that everyone will have to adjust it to fit their situation, from my experience in a pro shop, if people don't like the ball as is, they just say it sucks and get rid of it before ever adjusting surface or adding a hole or trying anything.  If nothing else this helps me cover more bases.

I hope I didn't poopoo on the idea.  I love the idea of a video and anything is better than nothing even if it is just for you on whatever shot you use.  You have the gift of gab and I feel you could give a well thought out explanation of the theories to reach a wide audience.

Like let keyboard pounders like myself deter you from producing something you feel your constituents would find value in.

If I might further expound on my beliefs ...
I think it can all be covered by the factor of rev rate to ball speed ratio.
Those,
- highly speed dominant,
- speed dominant,
- matched,
- rev dominant, and
- highly rev dominant,
are the "dividing lines" that determine where in the surface range of roughly 500 - 1000 - 2000 - 4000, you need to be for some given base line of coverstock strength.
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HackJandy

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2017, 04:26:58 PM »
Sure everyone knows but its also amazing how fast balls spike to 3000 to 4000 grit regardless of initial surface grit (often in as little as 3 games, which is why trying to maintain 2000 grit and less surface without a spinner is blister filled insanity).  I tend to keep a lot of my stuff around 3000 (with or without polish) both because I have a Trizact pad that will last forever at that grit and to reduce amount of surface work I need to do (exception for tournaments of course).  That said I do find myself using the ass end off my Maroon Scotch Brite pads (work great with my spinner as well) as they last forever and correspond roughly to 500 grit abralon.  I tend to use them as a base for my 20 game light resurfaces and also to keep my urethane and psuedo urethane balls near factory grit (they leave lines but actually prefer that to see how the surface is doing easily).   Mostly with my arsenal my go to balls are all either high grit and or polished (spare, light oil, or pearls for transition) or low grit urethane like (THS).  Only ball I keep near the middle is a nEat psuedo factory finish on my Stealth Bomber oiler which I rarely use.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 05:03:55 PM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

leftybowler70

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 06:14:40 PM »
^^ I also keep all of my pieces at 3000/4000, no longer worth the hassle to maintain a rougher finish every time after a couple games ( not to mention don't need much surface in a THS anyway).

michael.willis9

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 07:43:49 PM »
Luke how do you feel about sanding pearls?  I have a no rules pearl and dare devil trick. Right now, my NRP is just a bit stronger than the DDT, maybe 3-5 boards, plus a different shape. In order to cover more, I was considering polishing the DDT and maybe hitting the NRP with 2000 grit. Both are currently at OOB

HackJandy

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 07:50:59 PM »
Personally I keep my Scandal Pearl at 3000 unpolished for maximum versatility and because that ball naturally has length for days.  I keep my BVP Rampage at 4000 grit polished because that is more my medium light heads fried option.  For desert conditions heads fried (and for spare ball) I also keep my Blue Hammer at 4000 polished.  Technically that ball is not a pearl but it sure acts like a very weak one.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 07:55:52 PM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

Impending Doom

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2017, 12:29:26 AM »
Luke how do you feel about sanding pearls?  I have a no rules pearl and dare devil trick. Right now, my NRP is just a bit stronger than the DDT, maybe 3-5 boards, plus a different shape. In order to cover more, I was considering polishing the DDT and maybe hitting the NRP with 2000 grit. Both are currently at OOB

Sanding a pearl might be one of the best things ever. Most pearls I've kept with surface are monsters.

leftybowler70

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2017, 07:20:18 AM »
My exact experience with pearls, especially at 2000 grit.

Rightycomplex

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2017, 08:00:25 AM »
Luke how do you feel about sanding pearls?  I have a no rules pearl and dare devil trick. Right now, my NRP is just a bit stronger than the DDT, maybe 3-5 boards, plus a different shape. In order to cover more, I was considering polishing the DDT and maybe hitting the NRP with 2000 grit. Both are currently at OOB

Sanding a pearl might be one of the best things ever. Most pearls I've kept with surface are monsters.

Something about those additives work wonders with surface
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Rightycomplex

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2017, 08:02:21 AM »
Not to poop on the idea but doesn't USBC have a vid out displaying the differences in surface changes? Are you looking to expand upon that? If so, then great.
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jls

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2017, 01:22:41 PM »
Charlest,  as usual, you nailed it buddy...

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2017, 07:10:45 AM »
There are a lot of videos out about surface changes, but I had a different wrinkle in mind I suppose.  Was going to try to be more common sense with it, some videos get so produced that they don't really get the point across or they assume everyone has a ton of bowling knowledge, or you end up with more questions at the end of the video than answers.  So yes, was looking to clarify/expand, what have you, etc. 

Not to poop on the idea but doesn't USBC have a vid out displaying the differences in surface changes? Are you looking to expand upon that? If so, then great.
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CoorZero

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2017, 12:11:27 PM »
There are a lot of videos out about surface changes, but I had a different wrinkle in mind I suppose.  Was going to try to be more common sense with it, some videos get so produced that they don't really get the point across or they assume everyone has a ton of bowling knowledge, or you end up with more questions at the end of the video than answers.  So yes, was looking to clarify/expand, what have you, etc. 

Yes please. I would love something like that to show my bowling buddies. Easier to grasp without all the technical bowling jargon most don't truly grasp unless you're really into this kind of stuff.

It's hard to convince the more casual (yet still wanting to be competitive) bowlers about the importance of surface and I don't think the overproduced videos like you mentioned get the job done. They're just too much.

charlest

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2017, 12:19:30 PM »
Charlest,  as usual, you nailed it buddy...


Thanks. (didn't see this til recently)
"None are so blind as those who will not see."