Author Topic: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over" (Read 1220 times)

Russell · « **on:** December 30, 2010, 10:38:09 PM »

Over the last few years here I have read quite a few threads where people have said that $50 for a blank drill, and that $220 for a high end ball WITH drilling is just a ripoff...let me share a few things.

Like your Ipod?

Well Apple keeps the market competitive, and the markup for an Ipod at the retail level is low (less than 8%)....but god help you if you buy aftermarket headphones, or a workout holder, as these items are marked up well over 100%.

Like your clothes (Polo, Affliction, Gap, etc)?

Average markup in this industry is 100%....so a wholesale shirt costing a retailer $20 will get sold for $40.

Like your shoes (Nike, New Balance?)

Average markup in this industry is 100%...I worked at Sports Authority in High School and we bought Air Max's for $68...sold them for $139.99.

Now mind you the comparisons here are not in bowling. They do all have one thing that bowling DOESN'T have:

NO LABOR, meaning that there is noone providing a service. You're paying double what the store paid for it, and their cost in skilled labor is a cashier?

Now in bowling average cost for a high tech ball is about $125...the shop offers it for $160...plus $45ish to drill it. This makes the total price to $205. Add in grips and slugs and it's $225, which cost the shop another $5.

So cost is $130, and it's sold for $225...let's check the math:

$130/$225 = 57% markup

BUUUTTTT

In the retail industries I talked about, there is no labor involved. Only a storefront with racks and cashiers. They have very little skill....so why do they charge a higher markup than bowling retail? This is why anyone that thinks a shop charging for drilling, and a markup needs to take an economics class at the local community college.

I don't know of any pro shop owner that is driving a Bentley to the shop...do you?

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Russell · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2010, 12:13:28 PM »

Actually one thing I will disagree with is that the cost to manufacture the balls. This has no bearing on what shops charge. They charge simply based on what the distributors charge them.

The only thing the ball companies can influence at the shop level is instituting some minimum retail pricing...which however much people are mad at Ebonite...it works. Every other retail industry has it....golf...clothing...shoes...etc.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #17 on:** December 31, 2010, 01:26:32 PM »

Gunny....if you want to know where the high perf balls are selling for under $155 look no further than my shelves....

Pre-drilled prices....

Mission 2.0...$149

Taboo....$149

Anarchy....$149

Theory...$145

C-Systems...$139

Fingertip drill...$35

Finger Inserts...$4 each

Thumb Slug...$12

2 Inserts and thumb slug...$15

Switchgrip Fingers and Thumb also available.

I may not have the squeaky clean pro shop (carpet is probably a bit dirty, windows are not cleaned daily and the displays may need to be dusted) nor do I have 5 certifications hanging on the wall but what I can offer any customer who walks in the door is my full attention and my 12 years of experience at helping them. I go to the seminars, I watch the videos and I talk to all of you guys who get to throw the latest and greatest orbs that come out to help give me a broader knowledge base to help them.

What I do not do, and this is perhaps the most under appreciated thing in my mind, is to not cram something down the customer's throat that they DO NOT NEED. I have had many requests for the latest and greatest but I sell the tried and true because, to let the truth be told, only about 10% of the typical house bowler NEEDS HP equipment. Yet, for some unknown reason, people have a problem with my advice to save them money and go with a Nomad instead of a Cell or a Reign of Fire instead of an Invasion...go figure.

And to target the point of the post, I also do a la carte and I do a flat $20 mark up over my cost on each ball. Yes Martha than $20 also includes the cost of shipping the ball to me if I can't get it rep-delivered or as part of a "free shipping" order.

Pro shop owners are not getting rich...fforget about buying a Bentley...how about just something made in the last 5 years??? :-)

Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

Gunny · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2010, 01:52:36 PM »

Doug you are one of the few that actually try to enlist some sort of customer service and common sense. I know its hard to try and convince someone that the next latest and greatest HP ball is whats best for them. Best you can do is give them the professional advice and go from there. When they come back cause it doesn't work for them, then try and be the "teacher" and explain why it didn't work and that is why you suggested the other route.

You probably already do that, but you sir have a trait that most shop owners/employees do not have. You, like Steve(tekneek) is the type of people that win my business. I don't mind spending the extra $10 for service like that, than give it to someone who feels they deserve it because its their shop and their rules. Professionalism and respect goes a long ways in my book.

------------------------------------------------

A bizzare incident occured in the outskirts of an American suburb.....It was later revealed that the terrible disaster had been caused by the T-Virus.....a mutagentic toxin created by international enterprise Umbrella Incoporated for use in bio-weapon experiments.

vkowalski1970 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:19:25 PM »

Everyone complains about the pro shops, I dont see it.

Stars and Strikes(Pioneer Lanes) in Plainfield, IL...30 miles outside Chicago

715T $187

505T $159

607A $169

These prices include drilling, inserts, thumb slugs and and maintanance for the life of the ball.

Yes High Performance balls a bit higher....but with everything he includes why wouldnt anyone pay it.

What about the bowling alleys themselves......$5 a game on the weekends....Its killed the game.

Who can afford to take the family bowling consisntently?

When I was a kid we bowled as a family almost every weekend, now that simpossible. It was when I was a kid I learned to love the game....

qstick777 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 31, 2010, 10:16:06 PM »

I still don't see where the complaints are coming from about $50 drillings and $220 high end balls.

I've been drilling my own stuff for almost 4 years so I'm not really up on all the current pricing, but blank drills were $50 4-5 years ago. I think they are now right around $70. And that doesn't include grips or slug. Grips are $7 and a slug is $10. Buy them both and you get a $2 discount!

I want to hear more people complain about the increase in ball prices. I remember when a high end ball was no more than $130-135. I just checked Buddies and it looks like the prices are closer to $155-160 (Taboo, Mission 2.0, and 916A).

I used to be able to walk into the pro shop and get a high end ball for $189 + tax and inserts. Now the prices are all over the place, but it is usually $209 or higher depending on the ball. I think the last time I was there the highest priced ball was $229 or $239.

And I agree with the point about plug and redrill prices being lower. There is more labor and supplies involved with plug work than a blank drill, so why would it be cheaper? I asked about that one time and the answer didn't make any sense to me. The guy told me that he makes pure profit on the plug work......as if a blank drill isn't pure profit? I politely told him that is why I will continue to bring in used balls to plug and redrill instead of buy new balls.....I save at least $10 per ball!

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #21 on:** December 31, 2010, 11:01:50 PM »

qstick says that blank drills 4-5 years ago were $50...this is true! To take this one step further I can remember buying my first new ball...a Black Hammer in 1990...it cost me $154 drilled with finger inserts...not much different than what you see now, 20 years later.

one thing I did forget to mention in my previous reply.....I also offer my customer a pro shop card good for a pair of replacement inserts, a microfiber towel and trial bottle of cleaner, a free resurfacing when the ball needs it and a pair of free games to try out their new ball...total value there $8 + $7 + $30 + $7.50 = $52.50 value for FREE if you buy the ball from me at the listed price and have me drill it. Yet again I have slow ball sales....some people just don't get it.

Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2011, 09:49:29 AM »

If Doug is selling C-System's for $139 plus $50 for drilling that's a very good price from where I'm sitting. I'm not going to complain about his prices at all !

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2011, 03:55:48 PM »

Doug,,,

maybe you should put up a sign that says " when you buy a ball from me, you get 50$ worth of free stuff " and then have the stuff listed...... alot of people Dont realize how much they are getting for free unless you write it out for them... and even then most people might not believe it lol.....

Doug Sterner wrote on 1/1/2011 0:01 AM:
qstick says that blank drills 4-5 years ago were $50...this is true! To take this one step further I can remember buying my first new ball...a Black Hammer in 1990...it cost me $154 drilled with finger inserts...not much different than what you see now, 20 years later.

one thing I did forget to mention in my previous reply.....I also offer my customer a pro shop card good for a pair of replacement inserts, a microfiber towel and trial bottle of cleaner, a free resurfacing when the ball needs it and a pair of free games to try out their new ball...total value there $8 + $7 + $30 + $7.50 = $52.50 value for FREE if you buy the ball from me at the listed price and have me drill it. Yet again I have slow ball sales....some people just don't get it.

Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl "

For my vids on youtube - search DLYskes1976
or look for me on facebook

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2011, 04:04:01 PM »

not sure if they still do it, but Oakley did that with thier sunglass's..... they had a min retail price you could sell them @, and then you were basically breaking even on the cost.. but every place you went to that sold Oakleys were within 5-20$ of the same price..... and nobody complained about the cost of those sunglasses during that time.....

Russell wrote on 12/31/2010 1:13 PM:Actually one thing I will disagree with is that the cost to manufacture the balls. This has no bearing on what shops charge. They charge simply based on what the distributors charge them.

The only thing the ball companies can influence at the shop level is instituting some minimum retail pricing...which however much people are mad at Ebonite...it works. Every other retail industry has it....golf...clothing...shoes...etc.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl "

For my vids on youtube - search DLYskes1976
or look for me on facebook

StickZ · « **Reply #25 on:** January 01, 2011, 04:21:00 PM »

ok, but what if in your area, you dont have a knowledgeable proshop guy? or maybe he is lazy and jus wants to make money instead of do your equipment the right way...then yes the prices i would pay in a proshop are too high and I am not going to drive an hour away to spend X amount of money on a new bowling ball. So what is one to do?? Deal with it? no I buy usually online and have a friend drill it for me. so the proshop loses out on X amount of money because in turn they didnt EARN it. If they dont put forth the effore or the "skill" they have why reward them for nothing??? I know this isnt every proshop but how do you go about things when you have no proshop to go to that you can have drill a ball with confidence and not worry about the ball not getting drilled correcctly...

Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774

KiDSGoTGaMe

JohnP · « **Reply #26 on:** January 01, 2011, 05:25:54 PM »

How do we insert a quote since the change?

Re: price difference between plug and blank drill.

I charge $60 for a blank drill, which includes a slug and grips, and $40 for a full plug land redrill + $25 for a slug and grips. Some shops charge less for plug work because they feel they've already made their profit on the original purchase (or blank drill) and consider the plug to be a customer relations tool. If you charge much less then $40 for a full plug and redrill you're essentially getting nothing for your time. Plugging resins and the equipment to do the job aren't cheap. -- JohnP

Russell · « **Reply #27 on:** January 01, 2011, 07:43:21 PM »

I'm not following your comparison here...

Noone is saying you HAVE to go the proshop close to you and buy whatever they are selling for whatever. You go where you can find the best deal and get the best service. If you don't like someone's service...go somewhere else.

The problem now is that too many people have no concept of how little money pro shops really make. If someone has crappy service or doesn't do quality work...they deserve to make even less.

StickZ wrote on 1/1/2011 5:21 PM:
ok, but what if in your area, you dont have a knowledgeable proshop guy? or maybe he is lazy and jus wants to make money instead of do your equipment the right way...then yes the prices i would pay in a proshop are too high and I am not going to drive an hour away to spend X amount of money on a new bowling ball. So what is one to do?? Deal with it? no I buy usually online and have a friend drill it for me. so the proshop loses out on X amount of money because in turn they didnt EARN it. If they dont put forth the effore or the "skill" they have why reward them for nothing??? I know this isnt every proshop but how do you go about things when you have no proshop to go to that you can have drill a ball with confidence and not worry about the ball not getting drilled correcctly...

Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774

KiDSGoTGaMe

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #28 on:** January 01, 2011, 08:02:43 PM »

Thanksfor the props and ideas guys. To get back on to what Russellwas talking about though....

The only reason that bowlers target the pro shop prices is because they don't really understand what it takes to do the job abd do the job correctly. What the average bowler sees in the pro shop is the same equipment he sees the clown using at Dick's or Sports Authority to drill the balls there...and those guys do it for $8 an hour.

Yet these are the same guys that have no problem paying the GOLF PRO SHOPS 300% more than the sporting goods stores for similar clubs. The arguments are things like "well they cut them to length" or "I get special grips on my clubs" or "they offer a better warranty"....

Now I ask the question.....don't bowling pro shops offer the same? Custom fitting, custom layouts, access to special accessories, ease of warranty claims....am I right?

If people had any clue how much golf shops make on a set of clubs, pair of shoes or box of balls and their heads would spin.....

Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

StickZ · « **Reply #29 on:** January 01, 2011, 08:07:11 PM »

that is my point. i have 3 proshops within a half hour of me...all 3 are not top notch proshops. 2 i will absolutely not go to do to the fact they are not customer based. they are in it for the money and if they screw things up you have to pay them to fix their mistakes. really? im gonna pay for that? i shouldnt have to drive an hour and a half to get equipment done the right way... unless they are gonna pay for gas in which that makes the cost of a bowling ball near the 275 range which is incredibly stupid. unless I had a proshop such as Doug or Justin, I wouldnt pay the money to support proshops. In order to get my money you need(and should anyways) have dedication to your trade and to your customers, in my area they have neither. that was my point i was tryin to clarify. If they hold up their end then i will support them in doing so...even i can punch 3 holes in a bowling ball...so im gonna pay ann extra 200 bucks to someone who ultimately does the same thing i could do??

Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774

KiDSGoTGaMe

Mike Austin · « **Reply #30 on:** January 01, 2011, 10:06:01 PM »

What do you do if your "friend" messes up? Is he still your friend?

You could also contact me, I drill for a number of people around the country. May not be quite the fastest or the cheapest, but it will be done correctly! UPS goes everywhere!!

StickZ wrote on 1/1/2011 5:21 PM:
ok, but what if in your area, you dont have a knowledgeable proshop guy? or maybe he is lazy and jus wants to make money instead of do your equipment the right way...then yes the prices i would pay in a proshop are too high and I am not going to drive an hour away to spend X amount of money on a new bowling ball. So what is one to do?? Deal with it? no I buy usually online and have a friend drill it for me. so the proshop loses out on X amount of money because in turn they didnt EARN it. If they dont put forth the effore or the "skill" they have why reward them for nothing??? I know this isnt every proshop but how do you go about things when you have no proshop to go to that you can have drill a ball with confidence and not worry about the ball not getting drilled correcctly...

Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774

KiDSGoTGaMe

Mike Austin's Bowling Dynamix Pro Shop
Houston, TX

I'm back doing what I love and couldn't be happier!!!

Author Topic: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over" (Read 1220 times)

Russell

For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Russell

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Doug Sterner

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Gunny

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

vkowalski1970

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

qstick777

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Doug Sterner

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

DON DRAPER

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

David Lee Yskes

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

David Lee Yskes

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

StickZ

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

JohnP

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Russell

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Doug Sterner

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

StickZ

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"

Mike Austin

Re: For those that think pro shops are "bending people over"