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Author Topic: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff  (Read 9384 times)

TheFearlessForecaster

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Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« on: January 09, 2018, 07:46:38 PM »
Been bored at work these first few days of 2018:
www.HookJuice.com

www.ThatPurpleStuff.com


Just a little fun poke at each....
Maybe Ron will buy the URLs from me now, what a terrible CEO not even owning these URLs... 8)
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2018, 08:07:55 AM »
Quote from: psycaz on January 11, 2018, 05:23:38 AM
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...

It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.

So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.

If you go back to my earlier post With the email from the usbc. It was about mixing SG with Alcohol.

And all they said was that the products on the list were approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed together.

This whole water not being legal thing was never actually said by the Usbc, hackjandy was the one that started it and keeps harping on it.

He's basing it on the idea that if something is not on the list, then it's illegal to use and since water isn't on the list the usbc is saying it's illegal.

If you want to take that logic farther, then abralon, sandpaper etc. are illegal because they are not on the list of approved products list either.

The approved/not approved list is just a list of products that have been submitted to and tested by the usbc.

Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determined.

It doesn't mean they can be used or can't be used.

It's just that in cases like that typically you would err on the side caution before using a untested product and just treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise.

But he's taking it to a extreme.





« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:31:15 AM by Aloarjr810 »
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Impending Doom

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2018, 08:57:50 AM »
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on January 11, 2018, 07:56:52 AM
Quote from: daves123 on January 10, 2018, 10:44:41 PM
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing).  Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.

This is an incredible display of irony here, the bold text is literally asinine. 

For all intensive purposes, this is wrong.
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spmcgivern

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2018, 09:32:48 AM »
Quote from: Aloarjr810 on January 11, 2018, 08:07:55 AM
Quote from: psycaz on January 11, 2018, 05:23:38 AM
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...

It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.

So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.

If you go back to my earlier post With the email from the usbc. It was about mixing SG with Alcohol.

And all they said was that the products on the list were approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed together.

This whole water not being legal thing was never actually said by the Usbc, hackjandy was the one that started it and keeps harping on it.

He's basing it on the idea that if something is not on the list, then it's illegal to use and since water isn't on the list the usbc is saying it's illegal.

If you want to take that logic farther, then abralon, sandpaper etc. are illegal because they are not on the list of approved products list either.

The approved/not approved list is just a list of products that have been submitted to and tested by the usbc.

Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determned.

It's just In cases lke this typically you would err on the side caution before using a un tested product and just treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise.

He just took it to a extreme.


I know you are more versed in the rules than 99% of the bowlers.  And I realize the idiocy in assuming water is not allowed.  However, USBC has painted themselves in a corner on this.  USBC has a list of Approved chemicals they say are the only chemicals that can be used.  See below from Rule 18:

Quote
18/1 When may I alter the surface of my bowling ball?
 a. Cleaning – Cleaners approved for use any time may be utilized before, during or after
 certified competition; cleaners approved for only before and after competition may only be
 used during these times. The use of a ball spinner is prohibited during competition.
 b. Sanding – You are permitted to sand the surface of your bowling balls prior to certified
 competition; however, the use of abrasives is strictly prohibited once the first ball is thrown
 in the competition.
 c. Polishing – You are permitted to polish the surface of your bowling ball prior to certified
 competition. However, once tournament or league play begins, the use of a ball spinner is
 strictly prohibited.

They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct.  Only chemicals on the list can be used.  Water isn't on the list. 

I will use water much like a lot of bowlers will use whatever they want when at home. 
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milorafferty

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2018, 09:36:22 AM »
Us bowlers are funny people.  ::)
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2018, 11:09:03 AM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on January 11, 2018, 09:32:48 AM
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct.  Only chemicals on the list can be used.  Water isn't on the list.   

Just so you know, I wasn't saying Abralon was illegal obviously it's not.

Just that "if" someone wanted too they could argue it was since was not listed on any usbc approved product list (which there are other lists, like for plugging materials etc.) there for it must be illegal.

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Aloarjr810

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2018, 11:16:58 AM »
Quote from: milorafferty on January 11, 2018, 09:36:22 AM
Us bowlers are funny people.  ::)

Yes it's been posted before that asking bowlers to use common sense is a waste of time.
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HackJandy

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2018, 11:25:55 AM »
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on January 11, 2018, 07:56:52 AM
Quote from: daves123 on January 10, 2018, 10:44:41 PM
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing).  Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.

This is an incredible display of irony here, the bold text is literally asinine.

Takes one to know one which is why calling out USBC.
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HackJandy

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2018, 11:33:03 AM »
Quote from: Aloarjr810 on January 11, 2018, 08:07:55 AM
Quote from: psycaz on January 11, 2018, 05:23:38 AM
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...

It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.

So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.

If you go back to my earlier post With the email from the usbc. It was about mixing SG with Alcohol.

And all they said was that the products on the list were approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed together.

This whole water not being legal thing was never actually said by the Usbc, hackjandy was the one that started it and keeps harping on it.

He's basing it on the idea that if something is not on the list, then it's illegal to use and since water isn't on the list the usbc is saying it's illegal.

If you want to take that logic farther, then abralon, sandpaper etc. are illegal because they are not on the list of approved products list either.

The approved/not approved list is just a list of products that have been submitted to and tested by the usbc.

Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determined.

It doesn't mean they can be used or can't be used.

It's just that in cases like that typically you would err on the side caution before using a untested product and just treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise.

But he's taking it to a extreme.

>Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determined.

That is not correct.  Anything not on the approved cleaner/chemical list is not approved period.  The never can be used list simply lists things that will never be legal as testing has shown they change the cover stock.  I am all for common sense but is the USBC?  They seem pretty divorced from reality rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic that is the sport of bowling.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:35:45 AM by HackJandy »
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JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2018, 11:35:38 AM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on January 11, 2018, 09:32:48 AM
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct.  Only chemicals on the list can be used.  Water isn't on the list. 

I will use water much like a lot of bowlers will use whatever they want when at home.

Does it actually say chemicals anywhere? I've seen cleaners and polishes mentioned. While water can technically clean on its own, I don't think most people would think of it as a cleaner. Pretty sure they are just targeting actual cleaning products. Water also wouldn't alter the surface. As long as it is wiped off, it should be good to go. I agree with others who think that the whole thing is absurd. This is why everything has so many disclaimers these days. What happened to common sense?

I also don't think mixing water with simple green should be a problem. That is how it is intended to be used. Unless USBC specifically says it is not to be done, it should be fine. Do people want some thousand page rule book covering everything that could potentially come up?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:37:39 AM by JazlarVonSteich »
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HackJandy

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
Quote from: JazlarVonSteich on January 11, 2018, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: spmcgivern on January 11, 2018, 09:32:48 AM
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct.  Only chemicals on the list can be used.  Water isn't on the list. 

I will use water much like a lot of bowlers will use whatever they want when at home.

Does it actually say chemicals anywhere. I've seen cleaners and polishes mentioned. While water can technically clean on its own, I don't think most people who think of it as a cleaner. Pretty sure they are just targeting actual cleaning products. Water also wouldn't alter the surface. As long as it is wiped off, it should be good to go. I agree with others who think that the whole thing is absurd. This is why everything has so many disclaimers these days. What happened to common sense?

I also don't think mixing water with simple green should be a problem. That is how it is intended to be used. Unless USBC specifically says it is not to be done, it should be fine. Do people want some thousand page rule book covering everything that could potentially come up?

Well I would ask the USBC directly but since I am boycotting them currently not fair to use their resources since I don't pay.  Read that letter Mr. Murphy posted on the web site and with the US Open fiasco and talk of banning balls can't stand that guy and not giving them money until he is gone regardless if they show common sense on cleaning or not.  That was just the first red flag for me that even following common sense and spirit might break rules regardless.

>Unless USBC specifically says it is not to be done, it should be fine.

I agree should be.  Would be impossible to prove as well as long as don't use lane side (where I agree they should limit chemicals during competition) but don't like being told how I can clean my equipment in my house when the onerous should be on them to determine if cover stocks have been altered.  The rule should be no chemical can alter a cover stock chemically ever (as it is currently) and then provide a safety list for informational purposes instead of a can only use these list (except during competition which I can buy) but since that might affect their bottom line (costs big money to get on the oligopoly approved list, high barrier to entry is invaluable) they won't change I am sure.  Fair amount of money to be made on $2 an oz cleaners just like the printer market where the real money to be made is on the ink.  Too lazy to calculate but with $2 an oz cleaners bet it doesn't take that long (few years maybe) before you have used more cleaner cost wise on the ball than the ball originally cost.  Bet the margins are better as well (less R&D turnover for sure).  Consumables are often where its at which is why most of cleaners and polishes these days are owned by the ball companies.  Ron seems to want to lap up some of that money and thus back to the name of the thread.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 01:32:40 PM by HackJandy »
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HackJandy

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2018, 01:50:55 PM »
Ball Cleaners/Polishes

Any cloth towel that is non-abrasive that doesn't modify the surface finish of the ball and contains no chemical additives will be acceptable for use during USBC certified competition.  Here is a list of approved and not approved ball cleaners and polishes. For a product to be approved at anytime, the product must not soften the ball surface or leave a residue. If a product is not found on the list below, consider it to be NOT APPROVED either before, after, or during certified competition.

http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/link-for-approved-ball-cleaners-t243284.0.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7JQQ3QIL1GMJ:bowlingballexchange.com/attachment.php

(edit:  think this was the old version of the rules but they are very vague and ambiguous in the latest version)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 02:01:04 PM by HackJandy »
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psycaz

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2018, 02:02:36 PM »
The thing with SG is if, when the USBC did there testing to approve it, they followed the directions on the bottle, they added water or the sample they received was already at the proper level of water and concentrate.

They should use the produce as it’s prescribed to be used by the manufacturer.
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HackJandy

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
Quote from: psycaz on January 11, 2018, 02:02:36 PM
The thing with SG is if, when the USBC did there testing to approve it, they followed the directions on the bottle, they added water or the sample they received was already at the proper level of water and concentrate.

They should use the produce as it’s prescribed to be used by the manufacturer.

Actually for some things they do recommend full strength on the bottle.

Directions for Use

Use as-is, or dilute with water. Using ambient temperature water saves energy. Spot test on a hidden area first.


http://simplegreen.com/products/all-purpose-cleaner/    (how to use tab)

I know SG will never change the coverstock no matter its strength or dilution. I know its in the spirit of the rules.  My point is much like USBC itself their rules are sloppy.  They deserve to die and only think they represent the sport when they are just killing it faster.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 02:11:56 PM by HackJandy »
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2018, 02:27:48 PM »
Hack, you really seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts on USBC for not being a member.  Is this all just motivated by your love for the sport and drive to see it back to its glory days or by the hate in your heart?

We only have so many days/hours/minutes on this Earth and you seem to like spending them talking about USBC.

I'm curious about your psychology.....

Certainly I have my issues with the USBC that I don't like, as I think every poster here does as well, but I do enjoy Nationals/State tournaments and league bonding (I feel I get $21 of value for those things).  I commend you for walking the walk and not paying dues to an organization you hate and speaking with your wallet but I'm simply seeking to understand the end-game here for you and what exactly you get out of all this.  Is it just to hate on the USBC?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 02:32:11 PM by Good Times Good Times »
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HackJandy

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Re: Hook Juice / That Purple Stuff
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2018, 02:37:51 PM »
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on January 11, 2018, 02:27:48 PM
Hack, you really seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts on USBC for not being a member.  Is this all just motivated by your love for the sport and drive to see it back to its glory days or by the hate in your heart?

We only have so many days/hours/minutes on this Earth and you seem to like spending them talking about USBC.

I'm curious about your psychology.....

Certainly I have my issues with the USBC that I don't like, as I think every poster here does as well, but I do enjoy Nationals/State tournaments and league bonding (I feel I get $21 of value for those things).  I commend you for walking the walk and not paying dues to an organization you hate and speaking with your wallet but I'm simply seeking to understand the end-game here for you and what exactly you get out of all this.  Is it just to hate on the USBC?

Honestly its more bored at work.  But yeah not going to deny they have done some good in past but today's iteration seems more like a jobs program for getting paid more than your education is worth and in a general an old boy's club.  In the end who cares (but me) what I think lol.  Had my say now I'm chill.  Think will avoid slagging them off going forward as you say only so much time and energy to use in one life lol.
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