win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon  (Read 15452 times)

BrianCRX90

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« on: April 25, 2016, 02:43:30 PM »
Not trying to be a pessimist, but 15 years ago in my area bowling was very popular, to an extent still is but some of the trends are very disturbing to me:

The formation of USBC - thought at the time it would be a good idea to merge ABC/WIBC. After 10 years of this since 2005, I do not see the benefit of merging the two bodies. All I see is increase in fees and for what?

The PBA, a sport 10 years ago was my favorite to watch on tv and attend in person is surviving on a thread. I used to record every show but now...who cares? It's not a real tour anymore, nothing is live except for a couple major events and most of the events are in one city then eventually may have it an another city. Kind of hard to take seriously when the events are not live and not having a tour for everyone to see.

Bowling alleys. What year in your area was the last time a bowling alley was built? Entertainment centers like Main Event or Lucky Strike do not count. These places don't usually have leagues. They cater everything from kids to upper class drinking adults. I counted all the bowling alleys in my area and I came up with 1988 was the last time a bowling alley was built, also every time a bowling alley has been closed down nothing has took it's place.

Also, Brunswick selling their company to Bolmore was probably the nail in the coffin. Brunswick was the best thing to happen to bowling in the 1980's putting alleys everywhere, AMF has always sucked then Bolmore did nothing to improve them not they practically have a monopoly on it. Let's not talk about what Bolmore did to my Brunswick bowling alley's bar.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:45:30 PM by BrianCRX90 »

 

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2016, 11:13:22 AM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.

If you actually took the time to read them, you would know those are summarized financial statements and if they have nothing to hide why not share the detail. Mr. Murphy has been asked multiple times for budget level information and has consistently declined to share the information with membership...which by the way are the same people he supposedly works for. If the tournament side of the organization is not being funded by membership dollars, prove it by giving the people funding the non-profit organization the information requested?

I took the time to read them. I don't need to know the "details" of every dollar spent. But then again, I'm not obsessing over finding a reason to bitch about every thing USBC does either.

Have a nice day.

I think the USBC should be accountable to membership and that's not happening. You obviously think they are doing a tremendous job to just give them money with no plan or accountability. That philosophy has gotten us to 1.7 million members and falling...the definition of insanity comes to mind.

You are reading a lot into what I think. Here is what I actually think, USBC could and should be doing a better job. What should they do differently? I have no idea, but spending money to provide details to people who just want to grind on the minutia and bitch would be a huge waste.  The financials are available for anyone who wants to review them.

Perhaps you should take up a different sport if the governing body of bowling upsets you so much.

As best I can tell, the USBC is accountable to no one deciding what we are allowed to know and what's best for us and as a member that's unacceptable. Again, at the end of the day I expect a much higher degree of integrity from a non-profit organization that is supposed to work for us, the membership. If they spent half as much energy working to make the local associations more effective to retain/recruit members as they do on Team USA, PWBA, Junior Gold, etc bowling would be in a much better place. IMHO, the sport of bowling was healthy when membership was healthy...focusing on the sport is not going to make membership healthy again but that's exactly what we get #afutureforthesport 24x7.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2016, 11:16:29 AM »


As best I can tell, the USBC is accountable to no one deciding what we are allowed to know and what's best for us and as a member that's unacceptable. Again, at the end of the day I expect a much higher degree of integrity from a non-profit organization that is supposed to work for us, the membership. If they spent half as much energy working to make the local associations more effective to retain/recruit members as they do on Team USA, PWBA, Junior Gold, etc bowling would be in a much better place. IMHO, the sport of bowling was healthy when membership was healthy...focusing on the sport is not going to make membership healthy again but that's exactly what we get #afutureforthesport 24x7.

So I take it you are at least a board member of your local association? Or perhaps a volunteer for the association functions?
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

AlBundy33

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2016, 01:56:33 PM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.

If you actually took the time to read them, you would know those are summarized financial statements and if they have nothing to hide why not share the detail. Mr. Murphy has been asked multiple times for budget level information and has consistently declined to share the information with membership...which by the way are the same people he supposedly works for. If the tournament side of the organization is not being funded by membership dollars, prove it by giving the people funding the non-profit organization the information requested?

I took the time to read them. I don't need to know the "details" of every dollar spent. But then again, I'm not obsessing over finding a reason to bitch about every thing USBC does either.

Have a nice day.

I think the USBC should be accountable to membership and that's not happening. You obviously think they are doing a tremendous job to just give them money with no plan or accountability. That philosophy has gotten us to 1.7 million members and falling...the definition of insanity comes to mind.

You are reading a lot into what I think. Here is what I actually think, USBC could and should be doing a better job. What should they do differently? I have no idea, but spending money to provide details to people who just want to grind on the minutia and bitch would be a huge waste.  The financials are available for anyone who wants to review them.

Perhaps you should take up a different sport if the governing body of bowling upsets you so much.

As best I can tell, the USBC is accountable to no one deciding what we are allowed to know and what's best for us and as a member that's unacceptable. Again, at the end of the day I expect a much higher degree of integrity from a non-profit organization that is supposed to work for us, the membership. If they spent half as much energy working to make the local associations more effective to retain/recruit members as they do on Team USA, PWBA, Junior Gold, etc bowling would be in a much better place. IMHO, the sport of bowling was healthy when membership was healthy...focusing on the sport is not going to make membership healthy again but that's exactly what we get #afutureforthesport 24x7.

I'd like to know what areas there is still integrity the sport has, because there is certainly very little or none in the Detroit area. Not to mention that the state association turned the state tournament (which I used to enjoy bowling in) into the Michigan Sandbagging Classic.

Truthfully, I will always love the sport, but the people running the sport from those in Arlington to league officers are either cheats, crooked and/or totally clueless for the most part.

As I've said here before, if you lost $9 million on membership fees alone in just one season, shouldn't that be a red flag that something is amiss?

But those in charge in Arlington take the words of Andrea True and say "More More More".
Instead of "A Future For The Sport", it really should be "A Sport Without A Future"

bigbaby987

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2016, 10:55:21 PM »
I think with the environment that the current PBA League has presented, that is the future of bowling. An exciting atmosphere with teams that rep an entity that people can get behind possibly. I think the league coordinators should get sponsors that maybe cover the price of jerseys and maybe money to contribute to the prize fund. This could turn into maybe franchises. Let the sponsor choose their captains or rely on the coordinators to help them choose one and have a draft.  That would be fun. Then create an atmosphere that is fun and exciting like in Portland. This would be awesome. I would love to see the PBA expand their teams to more cities and or states. Just like football, baseball and hockey. This may not work for every league but the people working on getting better in more "fun" type leagues, this gives them a goal to work forward. For the others in the fun league it gives them a reason to possibly hang out at the alley another night. Excitement is contagious and bowling needs some excitement.

Ken De Beasto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2016, 11:08:57 PM »
I think with the environment that the current PBA League has presented, that is the future of bowling. An exciting atmosphere with teams that rep an entity that people can get behind possibly. I think the league coordinators should get sponsors that maybe cover the price of jerseys and maybe money to contribute to the prize fund. This could turn into maybe franchises. Let the sponsor choose their captains or rely on the coordinators to help them choose one and have a draft.  That would be fun. Then create an atmosphere that is fun and exciting like in Portland. This would be awesome. I would love to see the PBA expand their teams to more cities and or states. Just like football, baseball and hockey. This may not work for every league but the people working on getting better in more "fun" type leagues, this gives them a goal to work forward. For the others in the fun league it gives them a reason to possibly hang out at the alley another night. Excitement is contagious and bowling needs some excitement.
I like the idea but don't know if that can happen

AlBundy33

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2016, 07:25:50 AM »
I think with the environment that the current PBA League has presented, that is the future of bowling. An exciting atmosphere with teams that rep an entity that people can get behind possibly. I think the league coordinators should get sponsors that maybe cover the price of jerseys and maybe money to contribute to the prize fund. This could turn into maybe franchises. Let the sponsor choose their captains or rely on the coordinators to help them choose one and have a draft.  That would be fun. Then create an atmosphere that is fun and exciting like in Portland. This would be awesome. I would love to see the PBA expand their teams to more cities and or states. Just like football, baseball and hockey. This may not work for every league but the people working on getting better in more "fun" type leagues, this gives them a goal to work forward. For the others in the fun league it gives them a reason to possibly hang out at the alley another night. Excitement is contagious and bowling needs some excitement.

To be honest, I'm surprised that the PBA League has made it this far considering that the NBL died so spectacularly in the early 1960s when the game was at its peak.
Instead of "A Future For The Sport", it really should be "A Sport Without A Future"

bigbaby987

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2016, 09:54:13 AM »
I understand but the PBA has stood the test of time and bowling deserves a professional arm of the sport.  The general public doesn't really view bowling as a sport.  The key is to get them to understand how much of a sport it is.  To be honest, I never really understood how much of a sport golf was until I got deep into bowling and realized how closely related they are.  Bowling has an opportunity to spring forward with the hype it has now.  Again, people love excitement.  People can get behind teams or individuals that represent their interests, whether it's where they work or where they live.   Bowling centers can offer incentives for local businesses to sponsor their league teams.  Incentives like a free day of bowling for their staff for a certain amount of time with some help and maybe instruction from their league team captian/coach and possibly team. Have you ever played a sport with a pro whether it's a pick up game or for real?  It's awe inspiring!  This will make the employees excited about the people representing them, and maybe make some new bowlers to grow the sport and again, grow some excitement.  This in turn gives new people to come out to be spectators.  Maybe once or maybe on a regular basis.  Either way, it gets people out. 

Having these sponsor are great because it's a small investment to get the word out for their businesses also.  Let's just say a 1000 dollar investment for a 5 member team.  This easily buys shirts for around 300-400 dollars.  Take another hundred to make a cool banner with company logo and team name to go somewhere in the center, and 500 to the prize fund. We have 36 teams on our Monday night league.  That make 18,000 dollars to the prize fund alone!!!  All the bowlers have to pay is laneage and possibly secretary fee.  Probably 5 bucks a night.  The question is payout.  I would believe that top 3 teams get paid so everyone has a real stake in how they play and it really means something to win.  Now bowling seems more than Al Bundy and his friends drinking brews and eating pizza all night.  People can see that bowling is a SPORT.   The general public doesn't see it that way, and all of these fun places that keep popping up like Main Event devalue the sport. 

AND ANOTHER THING..... I started back bowling just a little while ago.  There were some great representatives of the sport and many that sucked.  For being a newbie at the time, people were nice at face level, but when it came to it, they were somewhat assholes. I understand that you have to prove to be proficient at anything to be in the 'in crowd', but things can get insulting.  My PSO was amazing at helping me get started again.  He walked my through what to buy and I even hired him as a coach.  This was awesome.  Fortunately, I got paired up with great team members also.  But there were the ones that thought they were too good to even say hi.  In fact, I would visit other pro shops, and the employees would look at me like "you don't know the Storm HyRoad??  Ok, you're an idiot."  The different PSOs were always nice though.  I say that because we should welcome every newcomer to the game with open arms.  NOT to be overbearing about their game, but to guide them.  Let them know they are appreciated even if they may suck-like I did and do on occassion-LOL.

I love this sport and we are all ambassadors to this sport and the more excited we are for doing what we do, the more excited others will be.  Let's not be snobs.  Let's invite people out to have fun, and then maybe show them the competitive side too.   


That's my .02's on the matter. 

Oh BTW!!  I know a lot of people have been disgruntled with the USBC but I think the sport of bowling needs it or something like it.  Baseball has the commission and so forth.  Whether they do a good job can be argued, but I think bowling needs a governing body. 

Good Times Good Times

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6462
  • INTJ Personality
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2016, 10:24:45 AM »
Here's what I'll do.  Pay my $20 for the bonding of the league money and go bowl in Reno at the Open Championships and have a freaking blast with my friends. 

Hell, I get $20 in value off the fun atmosphere of Nationals alone. 

Maybe get some of that bracket cash too......... ;)  ;)  ;)  :P  :P
GTx2

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2016, 12:06:14 PM »
The cost of USBC sanctioning, even if it went up to $33 per year, is nothing in the grand scheme of things.  Compared to what bowlers pay for equipment, practice, various tournament entry fees, etc.   The more sanctioned events you bowl the more value you get out of the membership.  At $33 it amounts to $1 per week for a 33 week league [less than the 20oz bottle of soda or water out of the machine at the center.]

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2016, 12:25:11 PM »
The replies here are interesting but please remember we are a very small sample size.

And I am a close friend of a gentleman who was the execute director of a major city association for over 25 years (now retired) and got to see "behind the curtain" on how that association ran for many years.

First off, as we all know, bowlers are very selfish.

When at meetings and discussions were held about tournaments and such; the association board members who averaged 160-180 always wanted to introduce rules that would benefit them and limit the ability of the scratch bowlers to do well in the tournament.  The one or 2 scratch board members would get told, city tournaments are for the general membership and they should have a big advantage over you.  We'd prefer you not even enter as you scare away entries.

When the scratch member would speak up, you would hear, "oh shut up, we out number you". 

It was surprising to me.  The mentality was the 160-180 bowler who was the majority of the membership in the city as well, didn't care one bit about the scratch bowler.

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2016, 12:44:06 PM »
The replies here are interesting but please remember we are a very small sample size.

And I am a close friend of a gentleman who was the execute director of a major city association for over 25 years (now retired) and got to see "behind the curtain" on how that association ran for many years.

First off, as we all know, bowlers are very selfish.

When at meetings and discussions were held about tournaments and such; the association board members who averaged 160-180 always wanted to introduce rules that would benefit them and limit the ability of the scratch bowlers to do well in the tournament.  The one or 2 scratch board members would get told, city tournaments are for the general membership and they should have a big advantage over you.  We'd prefer you not even enter as you scare away entries.

When the scratch member would speak up, you would hear, "oh shut up, we out number you". 

It was surprising to me.  The mentality was the 160-180 bowler who was the majority of the membership in the city as well, didn't care one bit about the scratch bowler.

And scratch bowlers feel the same way about the 160-180 bowler.

As someone who has seen both sides of this issue somewhat recently, I'm amazed by both sides and their lack of understanding and/or caring about others who bowl. I threw a ball down the lanes for the first time ever in January 2008.

Scratch league bowlers only want what benefits them, otherwise USBC is wasting their money.

Handicap league bowlers only want what benefits them, otherwise USBC is wasting their money.

Tournament scratch bowlers only want what benefits them, otherwise, USBC is wasting their money.

Handicap tournament bowlers only want what benefits them, otherwise USBC is wasting their money.

"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2016, 01:46:47 PM »
Going back 40 years I have been very critical of the ABC, now USBC, with respect to competitive aspects of the game I care about.  Specifically they were way behind the curve in technical knowledge during the critical period when lane finishes were changing.  The result was a series of rules such as Amendment 4 in the late 70's followed by the limited distance dressing rules of the 80's.  Their attempts to curb scoring with these rules were failures, and resulted in a backlash from scratch bowlers. 

Having said all of the above, I don't think anything the USBC has done has had any impact in the steady decline of membership.  Without the USBC we would be worse, even considering the mistakes I believe they made in rule making.  Innovative technology in the form of ball advancement had no bigger impact on the competitive game of bowling than did similar advancements in golf club construction impact that game.  In the latter case the USGA took a much more active position on technology, yet many golf courses, once considered championship caliber are obsolete, not too mention half the municipal driving ranges that no longer can contain balls launched by big strong free swinging hackers.     

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2016, 08:56:20 AM »
Can someone please tell me, back in the day (60s, 70s, 80s), how many bowling balls did most pro bowlers carry around with them?

How many for your local area scratch bowler?

How many for the high average league bowler?

I don't recall seeing many 5 or 6 ball totes back then?









Talkin' Trash!

itsallaboutme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2001
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2016, 09:13:45 AM »
In the 80's and early 90's we used to give the guys that brought a second two ball tote to league a hard time.

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2016, 10:16:34 AM »
Back in the 70's I carried a yellow dot and a white dot.  On house shots today I might carry 2 balls plus my spare ball.  Don't really need any more.  Tournaments are a different story.  Oil patterns can be anywhere from 30 to 50 feet.  Surfaces are different.  Oils themselves vary a lot.  I wouldn't go to any serious scratch tourney without 4 balls plus a spare ball.  Do I need this many balls.  Who knows.  I do know that I can make at least as good a use of them as does the 18 handicap golfer with 14 clubs in his bag.