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Author Topic: Is bowling ruined for good?  (Read 21382 times)

BeerLeague

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Is bowling ruined for good?
« on: January 18, 2017, 08:39:13 AM »
Not to beat a dead horse here, but it has been bugging me lately.

I see people averaging 220+ on "house" conditions, with no real versatility, and no game other than big revs. Their spare shooting sucks.  I see guys that can miss by 5 boards in or out and still crush the pocket.   The same guys can easily shoot 450 without the free hook outside and hold inside.

I also see guys in more competitive leagues, where the shot is intentionally challenging, bring a 20X average into a tourney and get pins.  These same guys can average 220+ on walls.  This hardly seems ethical and it hurts turnout.

I guess my point is ... Can we PLEASE get rid of wall shots?  I remember the local USBC/ABC office would run tapes regularly to check for illegal "block" shots, which are known as "walls" or "THS" today.  What happened?

The combination of reactive resin equipment, blocked walls, and pins that fly like crazy has turned bowling into parody of itself.  Shot making is no longer rewarded and accuracy seems to have taken a backseat to power.  If you have both, then you are deadly but us mere mortals cannot hit dimes while putting 500 RPM on the ball.... and that brings up the 2 handed / thumb-less argument which I will not engage in but I will say I believe it should be illegal.

I know its an old, worn out subject, but the game has been destroyed.  Some people will argue that it has evolved.  I reject that.  Where is the real test of skill?

I think we could take a lesson from the PGA .... they got rid of square grooves (to put premium on accuracy over power and hit fairways), and make anchored putting illegal (it gives the golfer a physical advantage).  You can draw the same parallels to bowling....
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 09:08:32 AM by BeerLeague »

 

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 09:22:50 AM »
It doesn't matter which era you feel is superior.  There is another that thinks it is unfair. 

If you like the urethane days, the plastic guys complain.  Like the plastic days, the rubber guys complain.  There is no one era that is superior.  Older bowlers have complained forever that the new guns are ruining the game.

Evolve, just like everyone else has had to do since the beginning of time. 

BeerLeague

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 09:40:06 AM »
It doesn't matter which era you feel is superior.  There is another that thinks it is unfair. 

If you like the urethane days, the plastic guys complain.  Like the plastic days, the rubber guys complain.  There is no one era that is superior.  Older bowlers have complained forever that the new guns are ruining the game.

Evolve, just like everyone else has had to do since the beginning of time. 

That's not the point I was trying to make.  It's not about one "era" over another.  The PGA made the rules changes to preserve the integrity of the game.  That was my point.  There is nothing to evolve to .... that is my point.

I was making 2 points really ....

1.) Eliminate the the house walls, the unsanctioned sport shots and the disparity in lane conditions.  We needs some enforceable standards across all sanctioned leagues -- why else have a sanctioning body? -- the other alternative is roll back the ball technology but that seems counter productive.

2.) Make 2 handed / thumbless stuff illegal as it gives the bowler an unfair advantage over the field.  I make a parallel comparison to the anchored putting with this.

itsallaboutme

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 10:18:01 AM »
A putter is a piece of equipment.  If you want to compare 2 handed to golf it would be if somebody was able to "Happy Gilmore" a drive and hit it 50 yards further than anyone else.

The game has changed.  Bowling has gone through the Tiger effect.  Belmonte has been around long enough that the kids that saw his style and that it was ok to do things differently than before are now old enough to compete, so there are a bunch of guys in their late teens and early 20's that are way ahead of the learning curve. 

Impending Doom

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 10:36:34 AM »
My way is simple. Want recognition for your honor score? Want awards of some sort? Don't sanction THS. Put your money where your mouth is, only sanction shots that meet a certain criteria, and keep the Ths for people that want to "play bowling", not participate in the sport of bowling. Make them fair enough, and then equipment becomes less of a arguing point and shotmaking becomes the norm.

You want integrity after this much tomfoolery, though, some heads are going to roll and some people are going to be left out in the cold and there would be some factioning of the play bowlers and the athletes.

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 10:39:08 AM »
It doesn't matter which era you feel is superior.  There is another that thinks it is unfair. 

If you like the urethane days, the plastic guys complain.  Like the plastic days, the rubber guys complain.  There is no one era that is superior.  Older bowlers have complained forever that the new guns are ruining the game.

Evolve, just like everyone else has had to do since the beginning of time. 

That's not the point I was trying to make.  It's not about one "era" over another.  The PGA made the rules changes to preserve the integrity of the game.  That was my point.  There is nothing to evolve to .... that is my point.

I was making 2 points really ....

1.) Eliminate the the house walls, the unsanctioned sport shots and the disparity in lane conditions.  We needs some enforceable standards across all sanctioned leagues -- why else have a sanctioning body? -- the other alternative is roll back the ball technology but that seems counter productive.

2.) Make 2 handed / thumbless stuff illegal as it gives the bowler an unfair advantage over the field.  I make a parallel comparison to the anchored putting with this.

You seem to not like the game as it is played today, thus not liking this era.  You want to go back to taping the lanes after every award score to ensure "integrity"?  That is ridiculous.  To do that you would have to pay out the butt to support the logistics.  Then what do you do about the times there aren't any award scores?  Do you tape lanes before every competition whether it be league or tournament?  More money.

As for two-handed bowling, I fail to see the unfair advantage.  Two-handers use one hand to release the ball, not two.  Some two-handers put their thumb in the ball so that can't be it.  And if you don't like thumbless, then who determines the "proper" way to throw the ball?  Bowlers used to have one finger and one thumb years ago.  Are they more right than you and your illegal two fingers and thumb? 

I understand you feel today's game lacks some level of integrity.  But whatever your vision of bowling is, I am sure there is someone who disagrees with you.

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 10:43:58 AM »
My way is simple. Want recognition for your honor score? Want awards of some sort? Don't sanction THS. Put your money where your mouth is, only sanction shots that meet a certain criteria, and keep the Ths for people that want to "play bowling", not participate in the sport of bowling. Make them fair enough, and then equipment becomes less of a arguing point and shotmaking becomes the norm.

You want integrity after this much tomfoolery, though, some heads are going to roll and some people are going to be left out in the cold and there would be some factioning of the play bowlers and the athletes.

I have always felt USBC should only be in the sport market, not the game market.  Let the proprietors and BPAA decide what fun leagues should be.  Let them decide what the shot should be for fun leagues (no required taping) and decide if the members get anything in return for awards. Charge a fee per league game bowled to support the effort. 

USBC should be in charge of bowling as a sport and any league/tournament that wants the USBC logo needs to adhere to some regulations whether they be conditions or whatever. Membership costs would be higher, but I think we are headed down that path no matter what.

This wouldn't get rid of fun handicap leagues, but hopefully it can reduce the logistical concern over taping and the such.

Luke Morningwood

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 10:47:09 AM »
I was making 2 points really ....

1.) Eliminate the the house walls, the unsanctioned sport shots and the disparity in lane conditions.  We needs some enforceable standards across all sanctioned leagues -- why else have a sanctioning body? -- the other alternative is roll back the ball technology but that seems counter productive
.

You are up against bigger forces on this point. The proprietors have a financial interest in happy customers. It has been pretty well proven that higher scores tend to create happy (and scoring entitled) customers. Happy customers tend to spend more money. The USBC cannot outright ban certain patterns, and they know it. But they have put in place avenues to recognize bowling on more competitive patterns.  This is about as good as USBC can do at the house level.


2.) Make 2 handed / thumbless stuff illegal as it gives the bowler an unfair advantage over the field.  I make a parallel comparison to the anchored putting with this.

We can all beat this to death, and maybe already have, but you aren't going to win this war either. If it isn't two handed, or no thumb, it will be the Maximum Bob's or Jimmy Keith's of the world. In many ways, allowing two handed and/or no thumb is a way to level the playing field for most of us who don't have the large hands or otherworldly physical gifts of some of these guys.
In general, with the equipment and conditions of today, more rev's is only an advantage if you can manage it and control it. At the highest level, they do.  As you work your way down to the house shot heros, they have the rev's but not the control, so they look great on the THS, but self destruct as the patterns become more demanding. I'm only about 300 rev's myself, but in may cases can complete on sport type conditions with 500 rev guys because of speed control, or accuracy, or spare shooting, or ability to read transition. At times I can keep up on a THS, but when they get matched up, they blow past me. If they lose the look, I can blow past them.
Rev's are only one part of the game, but at times it is the poster child for complaining about all problems with bowling. I respect your opinion, but I do not agree

Kegler300800

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 10:49:14 AM »
The USBC could NOT survive without us league bowlers. We are it's best cash cow. We league bowlers don't get much from the USBC anyway. Bonding is very important, but beyond that, not much. Tournaments are nice when they are scratch.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 11:00:21 AM »
Bowlers in America are entitled brats. As the parent, USBC, you should give the entitled brats what they deserve, not what they're screaming for. Eventually, the screaming and tantrums quiet down and the child falls in line.

xrayjay

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 11:01:56 AM »
when I was in high school, or around the time reactive came into the world of bowling, I hung out at the bowling center for non bowling reasons. I stopped bowling at the time, but I was around die hard bowlers. And I remember the older men talking, sitting at one of the restaurants, about leaving bowling due to the new strong cover.

I didn't have any idea what the new cover was, but my old youth teammate (who later became a pro) was hooking the crap out of the ball!!! I barely could make my ball hook 3 boards lol.  Friction was very hard to find. But my friend was enjoying it!

Anyway, I'm guessing these men whom I knew, who were already hooking the urethane ball didn't like the reactive ball. And all of them had stopped bowling in the early 90's and took up golf or fishing. In the opposite side of the coin. My older sister, relatives, and her friends picked up the sport because they could hook the ball. By the mid 90's I was a rare sub and I remember leagues having a waiting list still. Though not the same thing is happening here nowadays - there is no waiting list. Leagues are begging for bowlers. Well, one league I know here is really HUGE and it's "wait and see" list.

But, I see more rec bowlers interested in joining league. I see more two handed bowlers or no thumb bowlers asking questions about leagues. IMO, Bowling isn't as popular as it once was, but bowling will not die.
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northface28

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2017, 11:22:34 AM »
Sounds like sour grapes from someone who averages 188 on house and got clobbered the night he composed this thread by someone who averages 220+.......
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avabob

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2017, 11:23:02 AM »
First, you do understand that the resin era has been here for 25 years.  Prior to that the rules allowed totally walled blocks for 24 feet, ensuring plenty of free hook for anyone who could cup his wrist enough. 

Today most tournaments are held on conditions that force versatility as opposed to standing left and throwing right.  League bowling is for fun.  Let people have fun hooking the lane.

As for the bowling vs golf arguments, more people quit golf because it is too hard than quit bowling because it us too easy.  As for the too easy argument, expanding on nortface comment, people usually quit bowling because it is too easy-------for the other guy
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:26:14 AM by avabob »

BeerLeague

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2017, 12:18:24 PM »
Sounds like sour grapes from someone who averages 188 on house and got clobbered the night he composed this thread by someone who averages 220+.......



Not hardly.  I just trying to start an objective discussion.

If you haven't noticed,bowling is almost extinct and the PBA is a joke.  I want the game to thrive. 

Rileybowler

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2017, 12:18:34 PM »
We can all moan and complain about the way the conditions are and that the 2 handed bowlers have the advantage, but the bottom line is you bowl on the same conditions that they do. Generally speaking the bowler with the most talent is going to come out on top in the long run. All of us get beaten by someone with less skill and we even beat those with more skill than we have. There is no way to make everything exactly equal but the one constant is you can improve your own skill by correctly practicing. It is just like the handicap those on top think there shouldn't be any and those on bottom want the handicap. Bottom line no way to please all so just bowl do the best you can and if you are pleased with the way you bowled that is really all that matters.
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