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Author Topic: No Sanction Card  (Read 10673 times)

carlos

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No Sanction Card
« on: January 16, 2018, 08:14:46 AM »
A bowler was found not having a USBC card. Looking at rule 101 is it clear cut for the bowlers team to forfeit all the games bowled up to the time she got it ? The league did not have a rule addressing this infraction. First time it has come up. Thanks for any insite.

 

Aloarjr810

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 08:33:53 AM »
A bowler was found not having a USBC card. Looking at rule 101 is it clear cut for the bowlers team to forfeit all the games bowled up to the time she got it ? The league did not have a rule addressing this infraction. First time it has come up. Thanks for any insite.
Doesn't matter the league didn't have a rule, the USBC does.

As you said USBC Rule 101 is clear cut, the team forfeits the games she bowled in and hadn't paid the membership fee.


Rule 101 – Membership Fee Payment Requirements

To be eligible to bowl in a USBC league, a bowler must:
a. Complete an individual membership application in each league the bowler participates in.
b. Pay or show proof of payment of USBC dues and the required association membership fees in effect
 for the current season before:
 1. Adult membership: Completion of the bowler’s first series.
 2. Youth membership: The bowler’s third session of competition.
Any team using a player who has not satisfied USBC membership eligibility requirements subjects the
games in which the bowler participated to forfeiture.
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Pinbuster

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 09:18:57 AM »
Is it a sanctioned league?

If so then it should probably be a forfeit.

If they joined now I would vote to let it slide and let the games count.

The secretary is obviously not doing their job.

star

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 10:28:06 AM »
I know I’m a UK bowler well a watcher now but sticking diligently to the rules has back fired several times for leagues and tournaments local to me.

I’ve seen bowlers no longer bowl in tourneys due to being sent home due to minor dress code violations. I’ve seen long term team mates quit leagues they’ve bowled in for twenty plus years due to their team being docked points for extremely minor infractions.

So long as the card has now been purchased and maybe backdated as they are in the UK then I’d advise leniency and a telling off over upsetting several team members who are also being punished.
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
                   R.I.P.
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Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
Thong Princess.
Thanks for the FUN times.

giddyupddp

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 10:34:38 AM »
I would agree with the statements below. Tell that team to pay the sanction fee and sanction the bowler. If they refuse then they forfeit the points.

I know I’m a UK bowler well a watcher now but sticking diligently to the rules has back fired several times for leagues and tournaments local to me.

I’ve seen bowlers no longer bowl in tourneys due to being sent home due to minor dress code violations. I’ve seen long term team mates quit leagues they’ve bowled in for twenty plus years due to their team being docked points for extremely minor infractions.

So long as the card has now been purchased and maybe backdated as they are in the UK then I’d advise leniency and a telling off over upsetting several team members who are also being punished.

JohnP

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 11:04:34 AM »
Quote
subjects the games in which the bowler participated to forfeiture.

If I was the league president or secretary I'd interpret the use of the word "subjects" to mean there is some wiggle room.  If this was a deliberate attempt to avoid paying the sanction fee I'd impose the penalty.  If it was just an honest mistake on the bowler's part I'd make the offender sanction immediately and forget about any penalty.  Remember, the penalty the USBC gives affects the entire team, not just the offending bowler.  Of course, the offender might just lie about the intention.  --  JohnP

carlos

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 11:26:15 AM »
We must have our USBC CARD by the 4th week in our league. She could have forgot all together. She bowls in multiple leagues. There has to be some type of punishment just like if you were to bounce checks. We may have a answer tomorrow

charlest

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 11:29:06 AM »
While it is ultimately the bowler's responsibility to have paid the sanction fee and filled out the application, here in New Jersey (I say that because I'm not sure how other states and other associations deal with this),
every secretary in every league I have ever been in has distributed sanction applications to every team and bowler at the start of the season. Most are preprinted with all the member's/bowler's information, because most have been int he league before; but they also distribute blanks to be filled out by first timers.

Everyone in each league has to fill out the card indicating they are paying their sanction dues in this league or which league in which association in which state, they are sanctioned. They give that card back to the secretary or the treasurer, with the money/dues paid. The secretary and/or treasurer then knows the status of each bowler in the league with regard to their sanction status.

Did this secretary or treasurer do this?
If so, shouldn't they have know about 2 weeks into the season whether this bowler had paid their dues?

« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:31:08 AM by charlest »
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 11:36:19 AM »
I know I’m a UK bowler well a watcher now but sticking diligently to the rules has back fired several times for leagues and tournaments local to me.

I’ve seen bowlers no longer bowl in tourneys due to being sent home due to minor dress code violations. I’ve seen long term team mates quit leagues they’ve bowled in for twenty plus years due to their team being docked points for extremely minor infractions.


Sorry but those sound like spoiled children playing in a playground, not adult bowlers.
You know the kind, "Waaa, it's my ball; if I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home."

Your leagues and bowling do not need such spoiled children. Adults know the rules of whatever game/sport they're engaging in. They abide by the rules. You don't give a child leniency when they refuse to play by the same rues everyone has no problem abiding by.

Of course this all is true as long as the punishment fits the "crime". Once other "children" who "rule the roost" make rules to suit their need to grab power, all bets are off.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JOE FALCO

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 11:47:23 AM »
Could it be that the bowler in question is a SUB and not there at beginning of league?
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star

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 12:05:43 PM »
I know I’m a UK bowler well a watcher now but sticking diligently to the rules has back fired several times for leagues and tournaments local to me.

I’ve seen bowlers no longer bowl in tourneys due to being sent home due to minor dress code violations. I’ve seen long term team mates quit leagues they’ve bowled in for twenty plus years due to their team being docked points for extremely minor infractions.


Sorry but those sound like spoiled children playing in a playground, not adult bowlers.
You know the kind, "Waaa, it's my ball; if I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home."

Your leagues and bowling do not need such spoiled children. Adults know the rules of whatever game/sport they're engaging in. They abide by the rules. You don't give a child leniency when they refuse to play by the same rues everyone has no problem abiding by.

Of course this all is true as long as the punishment fits the "crime". Once other "children" who "rule the roost" make rules to suit their need to grab power, all bets are off.

I understand what your saying and to a point agree with it. However the rest of the team is punished too. Hurting 4 players in a team for ones infraction can feel over the top.

Adhering strictly to rules is great when you have a thriving community however people bowling several years plus in a 40 week league are a loss to the sport, they were to our small leagues. Like I say if the cards are backdated like in the UK then a simple fine for the offending person would be more in order.
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
                   R.I.P.
Mo Pinel. The Guru.
Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
Thong Princess.
Thanks for the FUN times.

charlest

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 01:20:09 PM »
I know I’m a UK bowler well a watcher now but sticking diligently to the rules has back fired several times for leagues and tournaments local to me.

I’ve seen bowlers no longer bowl in tourneys due to being sent home due to minor dress code violations. I’ve seen long term team mates quit leagues they’ve bowled in for twenty plus years due to their team being docked points for extremely minor infractions.


Sorry but those sound like spoiled children playing in a playground, not adult bowlers.
You know the kind, "Waaa, it's my ball; if I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home."

Your leagues and bowling do not need such spoiled children. Adults know the rules of whatever game/sport they're engaging in. They abide by the rules. You don't give a child leniency when they refuse to play by the same rues everyone has no problem abiding by.

Of course this all is true as long as the punishment fits the "crime". Once other "children" who "rule the roost" make rules to suit their need to grab power, all bets are off.

I understand what your saying and to a point agree with it. However the rest of the team is punished too. Hurting 4 players in a team for ones infraction can feel over the top.

But those are the rules. If you feel they are excessive, then make a suggestion to the league to change them in your by-laws. Otherwise, you're accepting them, as needs be.

Quote

Adhering strictly to rules is great when you have a thriving community however people bowling several years plus in a 40 week league are a loss to the sport, they were to our small leagues. Like I say if the cards are backdated like in the UK then a simple fine for the offending person would be more in order.

League by-laws allow changes to virtually every rule in the USBC rule book.
By the way, I agree, it seems harsh, but no one disobeys this law here. There are also check and counterbalances to insure compliance. After the individual's responsibility, there's also the team captain's responsibility. Plus as a bottom line, the captain, in USBC parlance, owns the team. You can then blame him/her for also not following the rules.

FYI There are a lot of rules in that book, on first glance, seem odd and out of place in today's environment. Until someone breaks one of those rules and is punished according to them, 99% of the bowlers don't know them and ignore them completely, UNTIL it becomes their turn. Then they become quite vociferous about how "unfair" the rule is.

Remember that by being sanctioned you're accepting every rule in that book. It's similar in concept, but not exactly the same as  the idea of by living in any country, you're accepting the laws of that country. There is a saying, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse (for disobeying that law)."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Aloarjr810

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 01:29:21 PM »
Like I say if the cards are backdated like in the UK then a simple fine for the offending person would be more in order.

They backdate cards in the UK, I Took a look at the BTBA rulebook I don't really see anything that says that's okay. They appear to have the same rule as the USBC.

If their back dating forms to show the player paying earlier than they really did, then they know their doing something wrong and trying to hide it from the assoc.

Because if there's nothing wrong with paying for your card late, then there's no reason to back date the pay date on the forms.



 




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jimjames

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 03:18:36 PM »
"vociferous". Hmmm. Had to get my Dictionary out for that one.  ???  Thanks for the lesson.  ;) I learned something today. That's GREAT.  ;D

psycaz

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Re: No Sanction Card
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 03:35:53 PM »
We must have our USBC CARD by the 4th week in our league. She could have forgot all together. She bowls in multiple leagues. There has to be some type of punishment just like if you were to bounce checks. We may have a answer tomorrow

Are any of the other leagues sanctioned?
If so, kinda hard to explain forgetting to get sanctioned.