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Author Topic: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling  (Read 1724 times)

charlest

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Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« on: May 17, 2017, 04:40:04 AM »
I recently learned of a proposed rule change. I suspect it would not affect many of you but it seems inane and senseless to implement, not even mentioning that it's up for serious discussion.

The rule currently states:
The use of approved cleaning agents listed in the Approved Anytime section of the Approved Cleaners and Polishes list is permissible.

The proposed change is to delete current text and replace with the following:
Only a dry towel is to be used to clean the surface of a bowling ball during USBC certified competition. Should a foreign substance appear on the outer surface of a bowling ball which cannot be removed by a dry towel, an approved cleaner may be used with consent from a league or tournament official.

The idea that you have to ask permission to clean your ball is childish at best.

Here is the text that they sent along with this:

We would like to request your comments about a potential specification regarding the use of liquid cleaners during competition. The intent of the specification always has been to allow a bowler to remove dirt and oil from the ball during competition with the use of an approved liquid cleaner. Current specifications allow the use of cleaners provided:
1) It does not affect the hardness of the ball
2) It is totally removed from the ball before delivery
USBC’s approved use of liquid cleaners is intended only for cleaning the ball surface, not to alter the ball performance. USBC is aware there are some liquid cleaning products that do not technically violate the above hardness and residue specification, but do alter the performance of the ball on the lane. The intent of the specification is to prohibit the use of cleaners that alter ball performance during competition.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

 

notclay

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2017, 09:45:23 PM »
Only USBC can say WHY they are proposing this stupidity.  Regardless of their reasoning, I resent the idea that they are trying to dictate whether or not I can clean my bowling ball, for any reason I want, if it's with an approved (by USBC) cleaner.

Are they saying that all their time and research to create an "approved list and a non-approved list" has all been a waste?  If a cleaner has been approved by them, meaning it has no illegal advantage over my opponents, then why dictate when I can use it?  You can't have it both ways.

I guess I should say they can't LOGICALLY have it both ways, but since when do they worry about logic?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 09:47:58 PM by notclay »
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ITZPS

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 06:24:20 AM »
Most likely because of what was said earlier, just because you have a bottle that says approved doesn't mean what is in the bottle is.  It's another example of a few idiots cheating and ruining it for everyone. 
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leftybowler70

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2017, 06:51:05 AM »
+1

notclay

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 07:54:58 AM »
I guess we'll go back and forth with this, but again, how would any league official, or any USBC official know whether something in a bottle is legal or not?  They won't, so they will either, 1) give approval (most likely) and just add a useless step for all bowlers, or 2) deny cleaning of bowling balls, thus rendering all their prior research useless...

The dishonest will ALWAYS find a way to cheat.  It is impossible to "legislate" honesty.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 08:06:54 AM by notclay »
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ITZPS

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 08:59:51 AM »
You're right, it's just a complete catch 22 and anyone who so chooses can argue their case either way and really have valid points on either side of the argument.  It IS really funny though that the VAST majority of league bowlers can't even comprehend cheating.  Don't know how many people I've had to explain the easy slide rule to that get upset because they just want to slide and then I explain how people use it to cheat and they just smile and shake their heads.  Hadn't ever occured to them before. 

I'm of the mind I really don't care what people want to do in the middle of a set . . anytime you make changes you have to adjust to those changes, so I'd see most things as a detriment rather than help, but I know those who get uppity on principle alone regardless of actual outcome.

I guess we'll go back and forth with this, but again, how would any league official, or any USBC official know whether something in a bottle is legal or not?  They won't, so they will either, 1) give approval (most likely) and just add a useless step for all bowlers, or 2) deny cleaning of bowling balls, thus rendering all their prior research useless...

The dishonest will ALWAYS find a way to cheat.  It is impossible to "legislate" honesty.
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HankScorpio

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2017, 09:11:22 AM »


The dishonest will ALWAYS find a way to cheat.  It is impossible to "legislate" honesty.


Yes it is. Still, that's the USBC's job. Tough job.

Regardless of whether the rule is good or bad, having the opinion that the USBC should not even ATTEMPT to solve cheating is the wrong opinion.

ITZPS

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2017, 09:21:41 AM »
Well, the USBC should try to solve it intelligently, else be endlessly mocked.  There's a point of diminishing returns, and ball cleaner isn't a battle they're gonna win in either sense. 

For what it's worth, the Shammy takes a bit of rubbing, but gets belt marks and junk off rather well.  There's a house I bowl in that's rather dirty, and I've never reached for the cleaner before because the Shammy gets it off quicker than I could get the bottle out. 



The dishonest will ALWAYS find a way to cheat.  It is impossible to "legislate" honesty.


Yes it is. Still, that's the USBC's job. Tough job.

Regardless of whether the rule is good or bad, having the opinion that the USBC should not even ATTEMPT to solve cheating is the wrong opinion.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2017, 12:43:59 PM »
 I have a few simple questions.

 What criteria, EXACTLY, will be used to decide whether or not you can clean your ball?

 Will it be predicated on how "dirty" it is?

 If I'm approved, can I clean it myself using my stuff, or do I have to have it done for me by a shop designated by them to ensure the use of an approved cleaner?

 Or, will the officials making the decision have an approved cleaner available lane side that can be used for a "small fee"?


Hmmmmmmmmmm...............
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 12:45:47 PM by Juggernaut »

charlest

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2017, 12:59:21 PM »
Well, the USBC should try to solve it intelligently, else be endlessly mocked.  There's a point of diminishing returns, and ball cleaner isn't a battle they're gonna win in either sense. 

For what it's worth, the Shammy takes a bit of rubbing, but gets belt marks and junk off rather well.  There's a house I bowl in that's rather dirty, and I've never reached for the cleaner before because the Shammy gets it off quicker than I could get the bottle out. 


This is in itself an ironic offshoot of this discussion.
A short time ago, I believe the PBA banned or was thinking of banning micro-fiber towels because they're more abrasive than plain terry cloth cotton towels. I'm not sure what happened to this concept, but if you take it a step further, I am 99% sure that the leather, shammy pad is more abrasive than micro-fiber towels. I could care less, but, if you want to get technical .... :):):)

(To get even more technical, I have no idea what a shammy is, but I know most leather drying "towels" for cars are supposed to come from Chamois sheep, pronounced "shammy". So car people often use a chamois cloth (porous dried skin of the Chamois sheep) to dry their cars. :):):):):):)  )
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ITZPS

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2017, 01:35:53 PM »
Haha, I would have to agree . . touche. 

Well, the USBC should try to solve it intelligently, else be endlessly mocked.  There's a point of diminishing returns, and ball cleaner isn't a battle they're gonna win in either sense. 

For what it's worth, the Shammy takes a bit of rubbing, but gets belt marks and junk off rather well.  There's a house I bowl in that's rather dirty, and I've never reached for the cleaner before because the Shammy gets it off quicker than I could get the bottle out. 


This is in itself an ironic offshoot of this discussion.
A short time ago, I believe the PBA banned or was thinking of banning micro-fiber towels because they're more abrasive than plain terry cloth cotton towels. I'm not sure what happened to this concept, but if you take it a step further, I am 99% sure that the leather, shammy pad is more abrasive than micro-fiber towels. I could care less, but, if you want to get technical .... :):):)

(To get even more technical, I have no idea what a shammy is, but I know most leather drying "towels" for cars are supposed to come from Chamois sheep, pronounced "shammy". So car people often use a chamois cloth (porous dried skin of the Chamois sheep) to dry their cars. :):):):):):)  )
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avabob

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Re: Proposed USBC rule change: using cleaners during bowling
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 04:28:31 PM »
There are a handful of chemicals that can impact the ball surface during the course of bowling.  They should be outlawed as much for safety concerns as for any competitive advantage.  The USBC has allowed balls with friction coefficients beyond belief. The idea if narrowing the list of mild cleaning agents that could have the most incremental pact on ball performance is ridiculous.