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Author Topic: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications  (Read 3072 times)

Aloarjr810

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The 11th Frame: Guest column: Veteran pro shop owner Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/10116/Guest-column-Veteran-pro-shop-owner-Rob-Bailey-on-USBCs-latest-proposed
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avabob

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 08:51:07 PM »
Adjustments got tricky when urethane lane finish came in because of the carrydiwn factor. On lacquer lanes started click, and the trsckopened up relatively quick causing us to make small moves in with both feet and target.  Usually only 3 or 4 boards during league, but easily 5 -10 boards over the course of a 12 game tournament which by the way was much more common back then.

avabob

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2018, 08:56:16 PM »
Most league bowlers averaging over 210 are pretty accurate.  Their weakness is in the versatility to make adjustments that take them outside their comfirt zone.  Such adjustments aren't as necessary on league patterns that font very in length from week to week

HackJandy

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2018, 09:45:02 PM »
The one difference I might argue between eras is like Mark Baker says you have two types who cash on tour.  Stone cold shot makers who probably are the most alike era to era (PDW immediately coming to mind, across different eras) and people who can do things physically nobody else can which probably was more common in the past with limited equipment and styles but less common today.  That is probably the biggest difference in eras.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 09:49:59 PM by HackJandy »
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ignitebowling

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2018, 10:22:20 PM »
What benefit is anything possibly being proposed by USBC going to do for your typical league bowlers?  How does it increase membership?  How likely is it to bring down honor scores or perfect series?

It won't stop the in flux of new equipment.  It won't lower the cost of equipment. It won't slow down the manufactures from working around the guidelines to continue and give consumers what they have seen in recent years.  According to USBC the last coverstock advancement was in 2005, (technically 1997) and the last core advancement was in 2001. So the USBC is over a decade behind the manufactures.
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spmcgivern

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2018, 08:10:49 AM »
What benefit is anything possibly being proposed by USBC going to do for your typical league bowlers?  How does it increase membership?  How likely is it to bring down honor scores or perfect series?

It won't stop the in flux of new equipment.  It won't lower the cost of equipment. It won't slow down the manufactures from working around the guidelines to continue and give consumers what they have seen in recent years.  According to USBC the last coverstock advancement was in 2005, (technically 1997) and the last core advancement was in 2001. So the USBC is over a decade behind the manufactures.

Based on the report, it will allow proprietors to put out less oil thus saving them money.  Imagine that.... a USBC rule change that benefits BPAA.  Who woulda thunk it.

ignitebowling

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2018, 08:24:13 AM »
What benefit is anything possibly being proposed by USBC going to do for your typical league bowlers?  How does it increase membership?  How likely is it to bring down honor scores or perfect series?

It won't stop the in flux of new equipment.  It won't lower the cost of equipment. It won't slow down the manufactures from working around the guidelines to continue and give consumers what they have seen in recent years.  According to USBC the last coverstock advancement was in 2005, (technically 1997) and the last core advancement was in 2001. So the USBC is over a decade behind the manufactures.

Based on the report, it will allow proprietors to put out less oil thus saving them money.  Imagine that.... a USBC rule change that benefits BPAA.  Who woulda thunk it.

Houses can do that already and eliminate the ability for bowlers to use high end equipment.  The center I bowl in has done that to try and save money.  There's even "short patterns" that eliminate the middle of the lane and force bowlers to ball down. Everyone always assumes you need more volume  to combat the new bowling equipment when it's easier to do with far less.

So every center has the ability to dry up the condition why would we need equipment regulations to then allow the centers to do it?
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DP3

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2018, 08:44:19 AM »
The center I bowl league at went to not stripping and reoiling the lanes at all before league. There's a 15ft head shot over whatever's been there since the night before and averages are down 10-15 pins across the board. There no amount of balls that you can buy to *trick* the shot. It's the few teams that have shotmakers that are at the top of the heap.

And people need to stop throwing out the term "shotmakers" when it comes to the first ball only. The real shot makers are making all their spares, and making 70% of their wash out combinations. 2-10, 2-4-10 split..... Easy spare for a shotmaker. You show off on your first ball, you make money over the long term on your 2nd shot.

There's this stigma going around that only the low rev guys can be shotmakers. That's simply not true.

SMACdi

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2018, 08:48:48 AM »
All they need to do is enforce the rules they already have to get the scoring pace where they want it.  They have proven that at Nationals since 2014.  USBC is on record saying they weren't happy with the scoring pace that year so they started to figure out how to tighten it up through lane patterns.  The scoring pace has come down to a point where they (USBC) are comfortable.
The same thing can be done with the scoring pace in general if they simply enforced their own rules rather than mandating new specifications on equipment.  Lower the volumes and flatten the patterns, scoring pace comes down (IMO) and the economics make more sense for the proprietors.  The problem can be solved organically.  I'm not advocating leagues use a "Nationals" type pattern.  That would be a disaster.  All I am saying is that the inaction governing lane conditions over the past decade or two created the current situation. 

itsallaboutme

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2018, 09:13:39 AM »
What benefit is anything possibly being proposed by USBC going to do for your typical league bowlers?  How does it increase membership?  How likely is it to bring down honor scores or perfect series?

It won't stop the in flux of new equipment.  It won't lower the cost of equipment. It won't slow down the manufactures from working around the guidelines to continue and give consumers what they have seen in recent years.  According to USBC the last coverstock advancement was in 2005, (technically 1997) and the last core advancement was in 2001. So the USBC is over a decade behind the manufactures.

It's no benefit to the league bowler.  The proposed rule changes are an attempt to control and lower the scoring pace of bowling at the higher levels while having the least effect on regular league bowling. 

Regardless of anyone's opinion if it belongs in bowling or not, every proprietor cringes when the youtube videos of the 40 foot launches over the left gutter show up from tournaments like the Masters.

spmcgivern

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2018, 10:08:42 AM »
What benefit is anything possibly being proposed by USBC going to do for your typical league bowlers?  How does it increase membership?  How likely is it to bring down honor scores or perfect series?

It won't stop the in flux of new equipment.  It won't lower the cost of equipment. It won't slow down the manufactures from working around the guidelines to continue and give consumers what they have seen in recent years.  According to USBC the last coverstock advancement was in 2005, (technically 1997) and the last core advancement was in 2001. So the USBC is over a decade behind the manufactures.

Based on the report, it will allow proprietors to put out less oil thus saving them money.  Imagine that.... a USBC rule change that benefits BPAA.  Who woulda thunk it.

Houses can do that already and eliminate the ability for bowlers to use high end equipment.  The center I bowl in has done that to try and save money.  There's even "short patterns" that eliminate the middle of the lane and force bowlers to ball down. Everyone always assumes you need more volume  to combat the new bowling equipment when it's easier to do with far less.

So every center has the ability to dry up the condition why would we need equipment regulations to then allow the centers to do it?

Sure houses can do that, and they do.  But it doesn't stop the bowlers from throwing charcoal on the lane and thus destroying the lane bed.

I bowl in such a house.  I am a bit of a cranker but not overly so.  I am forced to use an OG Purple Rhino Pro due to that lack of oil.  Only the extremely speed dominant bowler succeeds in this house.

Every center around me has a more conducive shot for a wide variety of bowling styles to succeed.  I would never want the shot to be catered directly to me, but this house is ridiculous.

And by lowering the strength of the covers (in the report) and the core (in the report) bowling balls will naturally become weaker.  This will force centers to cater to their bowlers and put out less oil than currently applied. Yeah, cheaper oiling costs.  And if they don't change their patterns, then they will longer life from their lane beds.  Another win for the proprietor.

The scores will not change.  The league bowler will dictate the pattern with either complaints or their wallet.  The house with the highest scores will still get the business. 

xrayjay

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2018, 10:18:13 AM »
whoa..... what's up with bowling balls and golf balls these days....
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northface28

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2018, 12:33:46 PM »
What benefit is anything possibly being proposed by USBC going to do for your typical league bowlers?  How does it increase membership?  How likely is it to bring down honor scores or perfect series?

It won't stop the in flux of new equipment.  It won't lower the cost of equipment. It won't slow down the manufactures from working around the guidelines to continue and give consumers what they have seen in recent years.  According to USBC the last coverstock advancement was in 2005, (technically 1997) and the last core advancement was in 2001. So the USBC is over a decade behind the manufactures.

Based on the report, it will allow proprietors to put out less oil thus saving them money.  Imagine that.... a USBC rule change that benefits BPAA.  Who woulda thunk it.

Houses can do that already and eliminate the ability for bowlers to use high end equipment.  The center I bowl in has done that to try and save money.  There's even "short patterns" that eliminate the middle of the lane and force bowlers to ball down. Everyone always assumes you need more volume  to combat the new bowling equipment when it's easier to do with far less.

So every center has the ability to dry up the condition why would we need equipment regulations to then allow the centers to do it?

The problem with this is you cant erase "surface + high end balls = hook" mindset. When Joe Bowler sees his Sure Lock stop at 27 feet and go forward he will either rough it up more and go grab another ball thats even stronger.
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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2018, 01:26:18 PM »
The problem with this is you cant erase "surface + high end balls = hook" mindset. When Joe Bowler sees his Sure Lock stop at 27 feet and go forward he will either rough it up more and go grab another ball thats even stronger.

So much truth here.  Joe Bowler doesn't always have a high bowling IQ (or have the "want to") or an understanding of bowling theory with regard to ball motion.
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2018, 03:06:47 PM »
The problem with this is you cant erase "surface + high end balls = hook" mindset. When Joe Bowler sees his Sure Lock stop at 27 feet and go forward he will either rough it up more and go grab another ball thats even stronger.

So much truth here.  Joe Bowler doesn't always have a high bowling IQ (or have the "want to") or an understanding of bowling theory with regard to ball motion.

I don't know if I completely agree with this.  My definition of Joe Bowler is someone who doesn't understand or even use surface for coverstock management.  To me, Joe Bowler is someone who buys the new ball of the month/year, stands on the big dot, and throws it right, somewhere near 2nd arrow.

northface28

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2018, 03:16:37 PM »
The problem with this is you cant erase "surface + high end balls = hook" mindset. When Joe Bowler sees his Sure Lock stop at 27 feet and go forward he will either rough it up more and go grab another ball thats even stronger.

So much truth here.  Joe Bowler doesn't always have a high bowling IQ (or have the "want to") or an understanding of bowling theory with regard to ball motion.

I don't know if I completely agree with this.  My definition of Joe Bowler is someone who doesn't understand or even use surface for coverstock management.  To me, Joe Bowler is someone who buys the new ball of the month/year, stands on the big dot, and throws it right, somewhere near 2nd arrow.

This is my point, his feet are bolted on the big dot never moving left or right of it. He will pitch his Sure Lock out to the dry and it "wont hook". He will go to his PSO and say "my ball isnt hooking, theyre flooded tonight". Said PSO will not argue or try to educate this donkey, instead he will take down in grit even lower. Rinse, wash, repeat.
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