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Author Topic: Let's enter the time machine  (Read 3850 times)

bcw1969

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Let's enter the time machine
« on: January 18, 2017, 12:41:49 PM »
Let us say we enter the time machine and travel back to the very early 90's.......nu-line is seeking abc/pba/wibc approval for a "reactive" urethane bowling ball. Knowing what we know now, would YOU approve their bowling ball, why or why not? And what would you do then to try and prevent what has become of league bowling and tournament/professional bowling in our present day?

Brad

 

Gene J Kanak

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 08:25:51 AM »
Like many others, I'm not thrilled with the fact that almost any average donk can average 200+ these days due to soft conditions and mega-powerful balls. However, in the end, that donk still occupies the same place on the bowling ladder as he or she always has. The truly talented players still win in the competitive arena (PBA, Team USA, high end scratch tourneys, etc.). League takes a bit of a hit, but the best are still the best. The difference is simply that where the best used to average 210-220+, now they average 230-240+ and the old 180-190 guys are now the 200-210 guys. The numbers have changed, but the truth hasn't. The best bowlers will win no matter what type of bowling balls we're throwing.

spmcgivern

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 08:39:22 AM »
It was mentioned about the cost of oil being prohibitive to centers putting out tougher oil patterns. I have nothing against reactive bowling balls and urethane.....but if resin never was then centers would not have to put down as much oil on each lane, thus saving money for the center and perhaps keeping the cost of bowling down for the bowler practicing and for the linage to bowl league, which could keep more bowlers actively participating.

Brad

The amount of oil applied for house shots and sport shots isn't any different.  You can find house shots that apply less oil than some sport shots and you can find sport shots that apply less oil than house shots.

Besides, as stated, oil isn't as big of a cost as some make it out to be.  Putting out 23 ml per lane costs about $0.50 a lane.  Oil costs around $400 for 5 gallons.  Cleaner is harder to predict since traffic can play a role in the concentration used and some centers might skip some cleanings on the weekends.

avabob

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 11:29:36 AM »
Not one person has mentioned the change the was the most revolutionary and started the technological trend to ever more aggressive ( high friction ) balls.  The change from lacquer lane finish to epoxy urethane lane finish in the early 70's started this all.  Prior to urethane lane finish polyester balls had been around for 10 years yet nobody saw any real advantage to using them over the hard rubber balls of the 40's 50's and 60's.  On urethane finish, Don Johnson and others found a much better ball reaction from the polyester balls, particularly Columbia white dots, than from rubber.  They also discovered that the softer the shell the better the reaction.  Columbia came out with the super soft shore d, and then the yellow dot ( softer than white dot but harder than shore d).  Scoring began to go up dramatically in the late 70's at all levels.  In 1981 the urethane ball was introduced.  It was no softer than polyester, but bowlers discovered that it could be sanded down to 400 grit and still skid through early oil but come booming off the dry.  Scores continued to rise as the ABC mandated shorter oil to keep lane men from using oil to steer the ball to the pocket.  Wrong move.  The new breed of bowlers that was coming out by 1980 were just looking for some head oil and a lot of swing area which the short oil walls of the 80's provided.  Again, scores continued to rise.  Lots of league bowlers pushing 230 by the time the resin ball came out in 1992.  Resin enhanced urethane created friction more efficiently than pure urethane, and allowed strokers to rejoin the scoring parade that had been dominated by power players for 10 years.   Resin also soaked oil off the lanes and created the need for higher volumes and longer oiling than was needed with urethane.

Modern lane machines and more consistent synthetic surfaces certainly had an impact on scoring, but it was incremental compared to the progress in ball technology and the harder surfaces.   Biggest factor of all is that bowlers today are much better than they were 30 years ago.  I am 69 years old, and am not the player I was even 10 years ago, but I have no doubt I could go back to the conditions of the 80's using the equipment available at the time and score as good or better than I did in my prime simply because of changes I made to my game, and knowledge I have accumulated to offset my physical decline. 

Bottom line in answer to the original question, I might outlaw urethane in 1992, but not because of its scoring, rather because of the way it destroys lane patterns.  We have the ability today with the modern machines to put out a variety of challenging lane patterns yet high rev players blow the patterns up so fast you cant run a long format tournament anymore.     

Gene J Kanak

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 11:52:27 AM »
But are we all honestly trying to say that things being too easy (relative term) is the reason why so many members have been lost? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. Is that the reason why SOME people no longer bowl, most likely. Still, people enjoy doing things that they're "good at," so you're never going to convince me that the inflated scoring pace is one of the major factors behind the decline in membership. Now, if you're just saying we should ban the super balls and/or soft conditions to make the game more of a challenge again, I won't argue with you there.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 12:24:33 PM by Gene J Kanak »

avabob

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2017, 12:39:51 PM »
Said it 100 times, but will say it again.  Nobody ever quit bowling because it was too easy for them,  just for the other guy.  I do think the ever increasing perceived need for a large arsenal of $200 bowling balls may have some negative impact on the game

morpheus

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2017, 06:22:12 PM »
Absolutely would not approve reactive covers. Without them:

1. No way Walter Ray is the all time PBA titles leader

You forget that WRW was player of the year in 1986 with urethane.
He'd still be way up there, if resin never came along.

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2. No way two handed bowling evolves to dominate the sport

This has more to do with the oil machines than the balls. You're alos forgetting the no-thumbers who bowled during the urethane era.

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3. Glenn Allison would still be the only person to bowl a 900 series and that was with plastic and is still the only legit one in my opinion

You forget that Allison never had a sanctioned 900 even though he deserved it.


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4. Membership would be in a better place because getting ran over lefthanders that never move off the big dot while the right has to move an arrows thanks to reactive covers is ridiculous
5. All styles are no longer competitive, it's all about rev rate, speed, and the ability to throw it half way down the lane in the air now and that's not a good thing


I think you're ignoring all the other factors in today's environment that affect membership. It's not just averages or scoring.

1. WRW had 6 titles in 10 years preceding the introduction of reactives...after reactives he won 15 titles from 1993-1996 after winning only 1 title in the previous 4 years. Without reactives he probably gets to 20 which is a far cry from where he ended up.

2. We had a few no thumbers in the urethane era, but they never dominated until reactives created enough friction for there to be a significant advantage.

3. I didn't forget, it's a travesty that the only legit 900 was never sanctioned.

i firmly believe bowling is hurt by the fact that there are two styles dominating, lefthanders and high rev right handers...if your not in those groups your skill is rarely rewarded.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

SG17

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2017, 06:51:49 PM »
the big change that I would un-do is the merger of ABC and WIBC.

Bunch of you will call me sexist; but the handicap leagues and tournaments in my area have lost more bowlers due to ramifications of that merger than any of the equipment/scoring complaints that others have brought up.

charlest

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 09:01:03 PM »

I firmly believe bowling is hurt by the fact that there are two styles dominating, lefthanders and high rev right handers...if your not in those groups your skill is rarely rewarded.

That I will agree with. Well, add one more category: high speed bowlers are thriving in my neck of the woods due to the extreme lakk of oil
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Juggernaut

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2017, 09:33:57 PM »
 In the early days, talking turn of the century stuff, bowling could've used change. When something NEEDS change, it can be a good thing.

 Changes took it and standardized it into one single sport, one where everybody was playing the same game.

 Change can be good.

 But, change can also be neutral, or even detrimental, if it is not NEEDED. If you do that, you are only introducing change for changes sake, and not adding anything beneficial to the game.

 At some point, the changes became unnecessary, and self serving. They didn't improve anything, only made it different.

 At that point, bowling started "jumping the shark" with changes that weren't needed.
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bcw1969

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2017, 11:27:45 PM »

Quote from: morpheus on Today at 06:22:12 PM


I firmly believe bowling is hurt by the fact that there are two styles dominating, lefthanders and high rev right handers...if your not in those groups your skill is rarely rewarded.


Lefties are supposed to be dominating right now????? Why am I always the last to be told  :P

Brad

avabob

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2017, 12:21:53 PM »
WRW didn't dominate because of resin.  Rather he dominated because he understood the most effective way to utilize the available equipment.  Like many of the greats before him WRW started out with a big hook, and learned that straighter was greater ( long before resin appeared). 

There are two reasons that WRW dominated more in the 90s.  First, he was entering his physical prime, and would have likely been more successful during the 90s even without resin balls. Second, the 80s lane conditions favored a crank to the bank style more than any other decade in bowling.  There were a lot if titles won by guys who could charitably called one hit wonders during that decade. 

Bottom line, bowling is a constantly changing environment.   The environment didnt come to WRW.  He adapted to the environment.   
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:29:41 PM by avabob »

Gene J Kanak

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Re: Let's enter the time machine
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2017, 03:31:24 PM »
Said it 100 times, but will say it again.  Nobody ever quit bowling because it was too easy for them,  just for the other guy.  I do think the ever increasing perceived need for a large arsenal of $200 bowling balls may have some negative impact on the game

Truer words were never spoken. Most bowlers don't whine about balls being too strong or conditions being too soft when they bowl well; it's just when others bowl better than they think they should.  ::)