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Author Topic: Let's get the argument correct (Read 451 times)

tgknukem

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Let's get the argument correct
on: December 09, 2017, 02:29:12 AM
Stumped about all the posts that say "URETHANE causes carrydown."  If a ball has ANY type of coverstock, yet also has enough track flare for there to be full oil line separation
(dry coverstock is constantly exposed on every ball revolution),  there can't possibly be ANY carrydown other than bowtie dots, assuming the ball is wiped off after every shot.  A Storm Natural (.04 diff) drilled 3&3/8" pin/pap chucked at a couple hundred RPM will not carry down any more oil than a high diff reactive drilled to flare a lot.  So the argument from now on needs to be LOW TRACK FLARE causes carrydown.
Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 03:23:32 AM by tgknukem

Juggernaut

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #1 on: December 09, 2017, 02:38:59 AM
Thank goodness you were here to straighten us all out.  :o ???

tgknukem

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #2 on: December 09, 2017, 03:26:03 AM
Not all, only those that generalize that 'urethane carries down oil' or 'urethane wrecks the shot' which is a BS generalization.

charlest

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 05:27:31 AM
Stumped about all the posts that say "URETHANE causes carrydown."  If a ball has ANY type of coverstock, yet also has enough track flare for there to be full oil line separation
(dry coverstock is constantly exposed on every ball revolution),  there can't possibly be ANY carrydown other than bowtie dots, assuming the ball is wiped off after every shot.  A Storm Natural (.04 diff) drilled 3&3/8" pin/pap chucked at a couple hundred RPM will not carry down any more oil than a high diff reactive drilled to flare a lot.  So the argument from now on needs to be LOW TRACK FLARE causes carrydown.

Carrydown has nothing to do with flare; it has to do with the rate of oil absorption.
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tgknukem

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 09:04:55 AM
If dry coverstock only is in contact with the lane, there can't be carrydown.  You only get dry coverstock contact with track flare.

avabob

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #5 on: December 09, 2017, 09:54:43 AM
I went down for a practice session yesterday.  18 year old anvil lane.  39 foot top hat 10 to 10 .  started with a pitch blue, 4 inch pin to pap.  Targeting 8 board at the arrows, playing pretty direct I threw a four bagger, with a ball reaction similar toi mild reactive.  3 of the strikes were on 8-9, one leaked out to 7.  Fifth shot left a flat 10.  Likewise with the 6th.  I tightened my feet one board a threw another strike.  Next shot was a 5-7.  For the next 4 shots I made a one and one move out to 7.  Every shot moved early and set up high.  Never got s carrydown reaction at 7 board because there was no head oil that far to the right.  I fiddled around with various minor adjustments for another 10 or 12 frames but was unable to get a decent ball reaction to the pocket.  I the got out a polished alpha Crux and moved 4 and 1 to 9 board.  Struck 10 out of 12 with a solid 7 and ringing ten. 

I am a lower rev stroker.  Different styles would certainly have different results, but the carrydown was real.  All balls. Including resin carry some oil down the lane on a fresh condition.  However urethane is much more susceptible to reading carry down than resin.  The carrydown created by urethane had much less impact on resin.  At the most you might have to tighten your line a board or two using resin, but you typically will not lose ball reaction in the pocket the way you do with urethane on  carry down.. 

 

Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 10:00:40 AM by avabob

Aloarjr810

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #6 on: December 09, 2017, 10:25:36 AM
If dry coverstock only is in contact with the lane, there can't be carrydown.  You only get dry coverstock contact with track flare.

How much a ball flares or not just determines how the carrydown is deposited on the lane. Not whether there is or isn't any carrydown.

This is a image from Kegel showing carrydown produced by flaring and non flaring balls.



Those little strips can build up over the course of a few games, add those to the long strip carrydown left by low flare balls and the backends can tighten up a lot.

Oil volume and Coverstock types (Charlests rate of oil absorption) will also affect how much carrydown there is.

Plastic balls will deposit the most, because all the oil just sits on the balls surface. Resin balls will deposit less, because they absorb the  oil into the coverstock very fast.

Something to note also about resin balls is, the amount of oil you see on a balls surface when it comes back. Is less than what you would have seen on it when it first came out of the oil on the lane, because that oil will be absorbed by the time it gets back to the return.
Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 10:33:36 AM by Aloarjr810
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Jesse James

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #7 on: December 09, 2017, 11:41:20 AM
Thank you Aloarjr810!

I'm not one to be arguing a point that I can't win with just my own perception, but from the naked eye, if I am bowling with a person on the lane throwing urethane, I purposely don't wipe my ball off, when I am throwing a reactive, just because of that reason. And, it has worked to my advantage so far.

Their carry suffers after many frames.
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HackJandy

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Re: Let's get the argument correct
Reply #8 on: December 09, 2017, 11:46:37 AM
Thank you Aloarjr810!

I'm not one to be arguing a point that I can't win with just my own perception, but from the naked eye, if I am bowling with a person on the lane throwing urethane, I purposely don't wipe my ball off, when I am throwing a reactive, just because of that reason. And, it has worked to my advantage so far.

Their carry suffers after many frames.

Yeah that's pretty much been pointed out that those that suffer the most from actual carry down are those throwing urethane and plastic themselves.  Reactives eat up light amounts of oil for breakfast.  Its what they are built to do chemically.
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