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Author Topic: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question  (Read 4200 times)

mrfrostee

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Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« on: July 20, 2012, 08:41:50 AM »
What is the cause of a ringing 10 pin vs a flat 10 pin, and what adjustments do you use to correct for both. Thanks.

 

notclay

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 09:29:43 AM »
I don't change anything for the ringing 10, because I figure it was a good shot. If it happens frequently then I may tweak my entry angle, but the shot that leaves the ringing 10 will usually have a good carry percentage.

The flat 10 requires a change in entry angle. First, I usually try hitting the 1-3 slightly higher to send the 3 more to the right, which helps the 6 do it's job.  On the flat 10 the 3 pin usually heads straight back, which sends the 6 sideways to lay in the channel. 

Assuming your angle is good then I look at other causes for the flat 10, such as the ball losing energy too fast by finding friction too early.  We are all different. We throw it with varying speeds, rev rates, rotation, etc., not to mention the myriad of different balls at our disposal.  What works for one might not be the answer for you, but don't be afraid to try.  Leaving 10 after 10 after 10 can drive you nuts if you let it.

I look at changing my angle this way:  If all I am doing is shooting spares, I can tweak my entry angle and still make spares in the worst case scenario.  If it works then all is fine again.  Once you decide to change, then commit to it and be fearless so you'll release the ball well...



« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:34:37 AM by notclay »
Lane W. Carter
Brunswick Regional Staff

www.allstarbowlingandentertainment.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 09:30:10 AM »
Two things can cause a flat 10:  The first is maybe there is carrydown and the ball doesnt really get into the hook phase (skid/roll/hook).  It lacks entry angle and deflects alot after hitting the pocket.  The second is there isnt enough oil in the front part of the lane and the ball loses energy getting down the lane.  Even if it hits the pocket, the ball has nothing left and also deflects alot leaving the flat 10.

Solid 10 is nothing more than you have a good match up with ball to lane condition but the ball gets a touch too far down the lane before its backend reaction and has too much entry angle.  The ball just needs to roll a little sooner in the midlane to carry out the solid 10.

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

notclay

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 09:39:46 AM »

Thanks for your input, TWOHAND834, I liked hearing that you occasionally leave the 10 standing!  For those of us with rev rates in the "human range" we may attack the issue differently...  My rev rate is VERY human.


Lane W. Carter
Brunswick Regional Staff

www.allstarbowlingandentertainment.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

mrfrostee

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 09:54:23 AM »
Thanks guys,
I have often heard the backup on the approach an inch or two and throw the same ball thought. Wasn't sure if it applied to both ring/flat 10 or not.

HankScorpio

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 10:15:47 AM »
Two things can cause a flat 10:  The first is maybe there is carrydown and the ball doesnt really get into the hook phase (skid/roll/hook).  It lacks entry angle and deflects alot after hitting the pocket.  The second is there isnt enough oil in the front part of the lane and the ball loses energy getting down the lane.  Even if it hits the pocket, the ball has nothing left and also deflects alot leaving the flat 10.

You've got that a bit backwards.  It is skid/hook/roll.  The flat 10 can occur when the ball does not get into roll phase.  That is also the most likely cause of the dreaded 8-10 pocket split.

PLM

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 10:31:48 AM »
A lot of good replies here with good analysis.  I would add that when I leave a ringing 10, I figure the shot was just a little light and I move my feet one half board right on the approach (I am a righty).  When I leave a flat ten early in the shift, it probably means I need to move feet and target to the right.  Later in the shift a flat 10 normally means either a move with feet and target to the left or a ball change. 

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 11:07:46 AM »

Thanks for your input, TWOHAND834, I liked hearing that you occasionally leave the 10 standing!  For those of us with rev rates in the "human range" we may attack the issue differently...  My rev rate is VERY human.




LOL!!!  Yes I can leave my share.  Regardless of rev rate, it still boils down to entry angle.  I have gotten better at knowing that to kick a ten playing up the track, you can be more up the back of the ball but still need some backend.  Once you move deeper, you need to increase your axis rotation to kick the ten.  All of this is providing you have the right ball in your hand, or my case, hands. 

@Hank....I may be wrong but I am not sure that anyone wants their ball to hook in the midlane before it rolls.  I have always known it to be skid/roll/hook.  In my case, if the ball hooks in the midlane and rolls on the backend, I should be happy with alot fo 9 counts providing I even hit the headpin.

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

Aloarjr810

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 11:21:19 AM »
The three phases of ball motion:
Aloarjr810
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Click For My Grip

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 04:02:45 PM »
So I was incorrect.  I researched it at another site.  Seems weird that you would want the ball to hook in the midlane.  But, oh well.  I stand corrected.

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

David Lee Yskes

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2012, 06:36:25 PM »
usually for me, when i leave a ringing tenpin, it's usually when I just slam the pocket... I usually do not adjust for it unless I leave a couple of them in 1 game, then i usually move 2 or 3 boards to the left ( i am a righty ) Since i figure my ball is comming in to hard.

As for a flat ten,  I look at the shot, did i get the ball off my hand good?  did i follow thru good?  miss my mark ( pull left and get fast in heavy oil ) 

usually for me, a flat ten is just a bad shot for me..  unless I start to encounter carry down...   And then i usually just move to the right to get the ball to hook up earlier or make a ball change. 
" Lift your skirt, grab your balls and learn how to bowl "

HankScorpio

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2012, 07:04:39 PM »
So I was incorrect.  I researched it at another site.  Seems weird that you would want the ball to hook in the midlane.  But, oh well.  I stand corrected.

The 3 phases don't say WHERE the ball reacts, just how.  The hook phase can take place anywhere on the lane. 

avabob

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 10:11:15 AM »
Flat 10 is clearly about deflection.  However it is just as likely, or more so today, to come from roll out as the ball not getting into a roll.  One misconception about increased entry angle is that it reduces deflection.  That is not strictly true.  All other things being equal, increased entry angle merely changes the angle of deflection.  If a ball has lost rotational energy in the process of increasing entry angle it will still deflect and can often lead to a flat 10. 

The ringing 10 usually occurs because the 6 pin goes airborne vertically and misses the 10 on the way by.  There can also be some deflection involved with a ringing 10 because many times the 6 goes past the 10 on the right, which is a sign of deflection. 


bhsbigcountry

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 08:56:58 PM »
Remember hook is just the deviation from a straight line. A ball can start hooking in multiple places. Just cause the phases are in order of skid/hook/roll doesnt mean that they happen in the same place and for the same amount of feet on the lane.
If that were the case what would be the purpose of all these balls on the market?

ambi1

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Re: Ringing 10 vs flat 10 question
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2012, 02:42:12 PM »
Here's a diagram about leaving ten pins.



"You are looking at the ball hitting the pocket. The ball could have struck the head pin slightly heavy (diagram A) or it could have struck the head pin slightly light (diagram B). Of course thereís always the question of the ballís angle of entry to consider."

I question a bit diagram B.  I believe the ball hits the pocket, deflects heavily into the 3 pin, causing it to go straighter backwards and cutting the 6 pin into the gutter.  Causing a weak ten.

or is the weak ten leave a different animal from a flat ten?


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