Author Topic: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner (Read 76953 times)

mr300ny · « **on:** December 18, 2011, 07:28:19 AM »

First off, let me start by saying I am neurotic about my equipment and cleaners. I normally use Powerhouse cleaner or something similar to that, but I would like to know if rubbing alcohol or alcohol pads will have the same effect on cleaning reactive resin balls? Would like to hear from experienced bowlers and their opinions on this. Thanks!

High Game: 300 (3x) (11/3/07, 7/6/11, 8/23/11)
High Series: 798 (2/9/08)

Stony Brook University Bowling
Cranking the crap outta balls since birth.

charlest · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2011, 03:49:14 PM »

mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 3:42 PM:Well if your lane oil is so complex why isn't my gear dying?

Is lack of oil absorption the only reason for lack of ball performance?
How much oil do yo bowl on? How often do you bowl?
How often do you change balls?
Do your cloths absorb no oil at al?
Do you measure your balls' performances after every use, tracking the decrease or change in hooking ability of each ball?
Do you track the amount oil on which you bowl every time? and where you play?
There are 4 million reasons why oil absorption may not be causing you to observe loss of perfornance.

I know for a fact that Lanemasters stuff packs a punch but do you really need all of that?

Can you prove rubbing alcohol doesn't break down lane oil?

Yes, when I clean it with "pure" 91% isopropyl alcohol, the oil just sits there . When I clean it with Clean and Dull or Lanemasters or Hook-It, the oil gets removed. That's proof enough for me.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

mainzer · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:06:22 PM »

JLS I have done that in the past and the towel is almost completely clean when
I use the ball cleaner second in the experiment you mentioned.

Quite frankly I would like to see proof that ball cleaner can somehow magically
clean deeper into a ball than rubbing alcohol, when both are liquids. Are u telling
me that one liquid can go through a solid object better than another?

jls wrote on 12/19/2011 4:03 PM:Sir, try this... clean you ball your way... Then take a clean white towel and use a good strong
ball cleaner and re do your ball...If the towel turns black, then you will see that alcohol is not
pulling the oil from your ball.. but simply just cleaning the cover...

Now as for the reason your balls are dying...what kind of lane condition are you on???
mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 3:42 PM:Well if your lane oil is so complex why isn't my gear dying?

I know for a fact that Lanemasters stuff packs a punch but do you really need all of that?

Can you prove rubbing alcohol doesn't break down lane oil?

charlest wrote on 12/19/2011 3:23 PM:
I won't back down.

There's alcohol and there's alcohol

Household alcohol, both 70% and 91% isopropyl alcohol will break down skin oils and maybe some other simpler, less complex oils, but it will not break down lane oil. Isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol is only 2 carbon more complex, than the simplest alcohol, methyl alcohol or 2 carbon more than ethanol, ethyl alcohol, used for drinking and in gasoline. All 3 are still very simple alcohols.

LaneMasters cleaner is also an alcohol, and industrial strength, multi-carbon alcohol. Those who have used it or even smelled it know how strong it is. It DOES breakdown lane oil. Of that there is also no doubt.

So, yes, alcohol can clean a bowling ball thoroughly. It just depends on which alcohol you are using.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

MainzerPower

jls

MainzerPower

mainzer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:23:25 PM »

Answers for you Charlest

1. No it is not

2.I bowl on PBA Patterns Monday nights so I have oil their, and Moderatly heavy THS on Thursdays

3. I change balls when it is necssary idk How often do you change balls??

4. I wear black shirts but they probably have some oil on them. So??

5. I watch my stuff closely to make sure it still has its hooking potential.

6. Yeah charlest I check with ruler after each shot to see how much oil is on the ball.

7. I play deeper lines

4 million reasons why I would not see it?? I think I know my gear better than you know my gear. My stuff hasn't lost much if any reaction ever. Once again Charlest give me PROOF!! Scientific PROOF that a ball cleaner does more that Alcohol you have not done that yet, you have just given me reasons.

charlest wrote on 12/19/2011 4:49 PM:

mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 3:42 PM:
Well if your lane oil is so complex why isn't my gear dying?

Is lack of oil absorption the only reason for lack of ball performance?

How much oil do yo bowl on? How often do you bowl?

How often do you change balls?

Do your cloths absorb no oil at al?

Do you measure your balls' performances after every use, tracking the decrease or change in hooking ability of each ball?

Do you track the amount oil on which you bowl every time? and where you play?

There are 4 million reasons why oil absorption may not be causing you to observe loss of perfornance.

I know for a fact that Lanemasters stuff packs a punch but do you really need all of that?

Can you prove rubbing alcohol doesn't break down lane oil?

Yes, when I clean it with "pure" 91% isopropyl alcohol, the oil just sits there . When I clean it with Clean and Dull or Lanemasters or Hook-It, the oil gets removed. That's proof enough for me.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

MainzerPower

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:08:01 PM »

It is not a matter of one liquid going thru a solid object better than another, it is a matter of one liquid dissipating (disolving) the oil better than another.

mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 5:06 PM:JLS I have done that in the past and the towel is almost completely clean when
I use the ball cleaner second in the experiment you mentioned.

Quite frankly I would like to see proof that ball cleaner can somehow magically
clean deeper into a ball than rubbing alcohol, when both are liquids. Are u telling
me that one liquid can go through a solid object better than another?

jls wrote on 12/19/2011 4:03 PM:
Sir, try this... clean you ball your way... Then take a clean white towel and use a good strong

ball cleaner and re do your ball...If the towel turns black, then you will see that alcohol is not

pulling the oil from your ball.. but simply just cleaning the cover...

Now as for the reason your balls are dying...what kind of lane condition are you on???

mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 3:42 PM:
Well if your lane oil is so complex why isn't my gear dying?

I know for a fact that Lanemasters stuff packs a punch but do you really need all of that?

Can you prove rubbing alcohol doesn't break down lane oil?

charlest wrote on 12/19/2011 3:23 PM:

I won't back down.

There's alcohol and there's alcohol

Household alcohol, both 70% and 91% isopropyl alcohol will break down skin oils and maybe some other simpler, less complex oils, but it will not break down lane oil. Isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol is only 2 carbon more complex, than the simplest alcohol, methyl alcohol or 2 carbon more than ethanol, ethyl alcohol, used for drinking and in gasoline. All 3 are still very simple alcohols.

LaneMasters cleaner is also an alcohol, and industrial strength, multi-carbon alcohol. Those who have used it or even smelled it know how strong it is. It DOES breakdown lane oil. Of that there is also no doubt.

So, yes, alcohol can clean a bowling ball thoroughly. It just depends on which alcohol you are using.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

MainzerPower

jls

MainzerPower

**********************************************************************

"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

mainzer · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:23:58 PM »

Well if neither can go through a bowling ball better than
Another how can one "deep clean" better?

Brickguy221 wrote on 12/19/2011 6:08 PM:It is not a matter of one liquid going thru a solid object better than another, it is a matter of one liquid dissipating (disolving) the oil better than another.

mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 5:06 PM:JLS I have done that in the past and the towel is almost completely clean when
I use the ball cleaner second in the experiment you mentioned.

Quite frankly I would like to see proof that ball cleaner can somehow magically
clean deeper into a ball than rubbing alcohol, when both are liquids. Are u telling
me that one liquid can go through a solid object better than another?

jls wrote on 12/19/2011 4:03 PM:
Sir, try this... clean you ball your way... Then take a clean white towel and use a good strong

ball cleaner and re do your ball...If the towel turns black, then you will see that alcohol is not

pulling the oil from your ball.. but simply just cleaning the cover...

Now as for the reason your balls are dying...what kind of lane condition are you on???

mainzer wrote on 12/19/2011 3:42 PM:
Well if your lane oil is so complex why isn't my gear dying?

I know for a fact that Lanemasters stuff packs a punch but do you really need all of that?

Can you prove rubbing alcohol doesn't break down lane oil?

charlest wrote on 12/19/2011 3:23 PM:

I won't back down.

There's alcohol and there's alcohol

Household alcohol, both 70% and 91% isopropyl alcohol will break down skin oils and maybe some other simpler, less complex oils, but it will not break down lane oil. Isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol is only 2 carbon more complex, than the simplest alcohol, methyl alcohol or 2 carbon more than ethanol, ethyl alcohol, used for drinking and in gasoline. All 3 are still very simple alcohols.

LaneMasters cleaner is also an alcohol, and industrial strength, multi-carbon alcohol. Those who have used it or even smelled it know how strong it is. It DOES breakdown lane oil. Of that there is also no doubt.

So, yes, alcohol can clean a bowling ball thoroughly. It just depends on which alcohol you are using.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

MainzerPower

jls

MainzerPower

**********************************************************************

"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

MainzerPower

scotts33 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:53:35 PM »

Here's my take.......

If you were closer to me I'd take a few of your balls cleaned with alcohol and take either C&D, LM cleaner or Hook-IT with a white paper towel I would think we would see dirt/grime on the equipment that you only use alcohol on.

If you know of anyone with these products try an application after you have used alcohol and see what happens use a clean white paper towel. That is about as scientific one can get. Seeing is believing. ie. I use Remedy RX which is an legal based cleaner approved by USBC during competition after I am done I use Hook-IT or LM cleaner and always remove dirt and grime that is visible on a white paper towel using these products after using Remedy RX.

The other issue if these three products mentioned above C&D, Hook-IT and LM cleaner are ONLY approved for prior to or after competition one would question why ONLY prior to or after why not during like alcohol. Just that question should make for an eye opener in that their chemical make-up is not allowed during competition for a reason.

"Well if neither can go through a bowling ball better than

Another how can one "deep clean" better?"

Scott

Edited by scotts33 on 12/19/2011 at 6:54 PM

charlest · « **Reply #22 on:** December 19, 2011, 06:12:30 PM »

Mainzer,

In addition to what Scott said,

It's not a matter of your knowing your equipment better than I do. It's a matter of many things affecting this situation,

AND

why do you need proof when your judgment comes from what you're seeing in your balls.

Is your vision and observance of what happens different than mine?

My judgment comes from my not seeing alcohol make any change in oil laying on bowling balls and not removing it. If oil is one of the problems, and from many sources, it is, why bother even using alcohol when it does nothing except remove some types of dirt. Heck, water would do as much.

Clean your balls with water and tell me how much of a change in their behavior you see. I bet you also see nothing.

Proof?

I am not interested in proving you wrong or me right. I am interested in one thing: helping.

I know alcohol will not remove oil from the surface of a ball. I'd like you to use as inexpensive a liquid or method as possible that will enable you to live with yourself and not consider yourself cheated for spending too much money on the unnecessaary. Pick any one that will actually remove lane oil from the surface of a bowling ball. household alcohol by itself will never do that.

Merry Christmas!

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 12/19/2011 at 7:15 PM

Edited by charlest on 12/19/2011 at 7:52 PM

jrs813 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2011, 06:27:22 AM »

holding a bottle of storm reacta clean. CAUTION contains denatured ETHYL ALCOHOL.

« **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2011, 08:24:52 AM »

jrs813 wrote on 12/20/2011 7:27 AM:holding a bottle of storm reacta clean. CAUTION contains denatured ETHYL ALCOHOL.

contains DENATURED ethyl alcohol... FIXED!

Not too long ago this was illegal for use by U.S.B.C. (straight out of the bottle or can - Storm dilutes it with other ingredients)
Not sure if it still is, or if they have relaxed their stance on it. The point is that it's not the same as the alcohol used in this discussion.

Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Edited by notclay on 12/20/2011 at 9:29 AM

mainzer · « **Reply #25 on:** December 20, 2011, 09:18:49 AM »

Actually charlest you are still wrong, Rubbing alcohol can remove oil
from the surface of the bowling ball. How can it take dirt off and not pull oil
off? That statment makes no sense on your part. I am living with myself just fine
using rubbing alcohol sir.

You must be a really good bowler if you need to get every drop of oil off
your gear between uses, much better than me. But may I ask how you can prove
Rubbing alcohol doesn't get oil off the surface of the ball? I understand the a ball cleaner
may work better of that I will not argue.

I see that you seem to think your judgment is somehow better than mine, I would stop
if you had proof that alcohol does nothing but all you have is your judgment. A previous
poster stated the rubbing alcohol dissolves oil and that he looked it up on
google but yet you know better?

charlest wrote on 12/19/2011 7:12 PM: Mainzer,

In addition to what Scott said,
It's not a matter of your knowing your equipment better than I do. It's a matter of many things affecting this situation,
AND
why do you need proof when your judgment comes from what you're seeing in your balls.
Is your vision and observance of what happens different than mine?

My judgment comes from my not seeing alcohol make any change in oil laying on bowling balls and not removing it. If oil is one of the problems, and from many sources, it is, why bother even using alcohol when it does nothing except remove some types of dirt. Heck, water would do as much.

Clean your balls with water and tell me how much of a change in their behavior you see. I bet you also see nothing.

Proof?

I am not interested in proving you wrong or me right. I am interested in one thing: helping.
I know alcohol will not remove oil from the surface of a ball. I'd like you to use as inexpensive a liquid or method as possible that will enable you to live with yourself and not consider yourself cheated for spending too much money on the unnecessaary. Pick any one that will actually remove lane oil from the surface of a bowling ball. household alcohol by itself will never do that.

Merry Christmas!

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 12/19/2011 at 7:15 PM

Edited by charlest on 12/19/2011 at 7:52 PM

MainzerPower

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #26 on:** December 20, 2011, 09:33:05 AM »

First, I have no horse in this race. That being said.......

Mainzer, given the concession you made that a ball cleaner will work better, if you believe that alcohol would remove oil and dirt from the surface of a ball, and that a ball cleaner would do the same (not offering a deep clean), how is it a ball cleaner would "work better"? What would the specific benefit be of a ball cleaner OVER alcohol, in you opinion?

If alcohol offers cleaning dirt and oil from the SURFACE, and a ball cleaner offers cleaning dirt and oil from the SURFACE, how will a ball cleaner work better?

I'd suppose the suggestion of cleaning with alcohol THEN cleaning with a ball cleaner and examining a WHITE towel would solve this?

mainzer wrote on 12/20/2011 10:18 AM: Rubbing alcohol can remove oil from the surface of the bowling ball. How can it take dirt off and not pull oil
off?

I understand the a ball cleaner may work better of that I will not argue.

charlest wrote on 12/19/2011 7:12 PM:
Mainzer,

In addition to what Scott said,

It's not a matter of your knowing your equipment better than I do. It's a matter of many things affecting this situation,

AND

why do you need proof when your judgment comes from what you're seeing in your balls.

Is your vision and observance of what happens different than mine?

My judgment comes from my not seeing alcohol make any change in oil laying on bowling balls and not removing it. If oil is one of the problems, and from many sources, it is, why bother even using alcohol when it does nothing except remove some types of dirt. Heck, water would do as much.

Clean your balls with water and tell me how much of a change in their behavior you see. I bet you also see nothing.

Proof?

I am not interested in proving you wrong or me right. I am interested in one thing: helping.

I know alcohol will not remove oil from the surface of a ball. I'd like you to use as inexpensive a liquid or method as possible that will enable you to live with yourself and not consider yourself cheated for spending too much money on the unnecessaary. Pick any one that will actually remove lane oil from the surface of a bowling ball. household alcohol by itself will never do that.

Merry Christmas!

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 12/19/2011 at 7:15 PM

Edited by charlest on 12/19/2011 at 7:52 PM

MainzerPower

GetOffMe10Pin

"Sometimes people call me an idealist. Well that is the way I know I am an American."
- Woodrow Wilson

scotts33 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 20, 2011, 09:48:41 AM »

I'll get back into this per Good Times post.

Here's the real question. The difference being that there two different types of ball cleaners those that are approved for use during and those that are NOT approved for use during ONLY to be used before or after.

The ball cleaners that are approved for use during are basically all alcohol based. So, use your alcohol based cleaner during.

My statement is after a league I maintain that if you take Hook-IT, LM cleaner or C&D you will remove more than you can with just alcohol. IF someone in your area has any 3 of these products try it with a white paper towel and see if you can remove more. I'd bet that you will. That's the difference IMO.

Someone answer me this? Why are there approved for use cleaners and approved ONLY prior to or after? The reason would be obvious to me the prior to and after are stronger products which will remove more. They may also take off lane shine which allow more traction. Some may contain abrasives which I understand would allow more surface but most are non-alcohol based and allow for a more deep cleaning.

USBC Acceptable/Non-Acceptable Ball Cleaners/Polishes

Good Times Good Times wrote on 12/20/2011 10:33 AM:First, I have no horse in this race. That being said.......

Mainzer, given the concession you made that a ball cleaner will work better, if you believe that alcohol would remove oil and dirt from the surface of a ball, and that a ball cleaner would do the same (not offering a deep clean), how is it a ball cleaner would "work better"? What would the specific benefit be of a ball cleaner OVER alcohol, in you opinion?

If alcohol offers cleaning dirt and oil from the SURFACE, and a ball cleaner offers cleaning dirt and oil from the SURFACE, how will a ball cleaner work better?

I'd suppose the suggestion of cleaning with alcohol THEN cleaning with a ball cleaner and examining a WHITE towel would solve this?

Scott

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #28 on:** December 20, 2011, 12:48:34 PM »

Really, its a basic chemistry problem. Like dissolves like. Rubbing alcohol is.... Well an alcohol. Chemically, it doesn't look very much like lane oil. If you took a clear bottle and filled with rubbing alcohol and lane oil, you would see two layers... They don't mix. It does look much like water though... And is quite happy to mix with water. Cleaners and other detergents have molecules called surfactants, where half of the molecule looks similar to oils and half looks similar to water or alcohol. Thus have the ability to dissolve oils and rinse away with water..

What's this mean for ball cleaners? Alcohol wouldn't be my first choice as a ball cleaner to remove lane oil.

S^2

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Steven · « **Reply #29 on:** December 20, 2011, 01:03:28 PM »

Strapper, nice explanation. It mirrors what we see in real life.

I'd never use Rubbing alcohol to clean grease off my kitchen counter. I don't think that would be the first choice of many. It makes no more sense as the first choice for cleaning a bowling ball.

Strapper_Squared wrote on 12/20/2011 1:48 PM:Really, its a basic chemistry problem. Like dissolves like. Rubbing alcohol is.... Well an alcohol. Chemically, it doesn't look very much like lane oil. If you took a clear bottle and filled with rubbing alcohol and lane oil, you would see two layers... They don't mix. It does look much like water though... And is quite happy to mix with water. Cleaners and other detergents have molecules called surfactants, where half of the molecule looks similar to oils and half looks similar to water or alcohol. Thus have the ability to dissolve oils and rinse away with water..

What's this mean for ball cleaners? Alcohol wouldn't be my first choice as a ball cleaner to remove lane oil.

S^2

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

mainzer · « **Reply #30 on:** December 20, 2011, 03:11:29 PM »

I work in Surgery I am a Sterile Processing Tech, I specialize in Processing Inst Before and after Strilization, as another part of my job is to help clean ORs after surgery

We use alot of Betadyne prep. When it is spilt onto the floor it will become a stain that no cleaning solvent will ever get off the floor, however pour a little Rubbing Alcohol on it and in about 10 seconds the Betadyne is off the floor

works like a charm, seeing that is one thing that has kept me using rubbing Alcohol,

good times I worded that poorly to say the least, let me try again. L/LM is a
very powerful cleaner, but do you NEED it to be that powerful? Is is a marketing ploy
to make more money? Just something cooked up? Or is their something behind it?

Strapper Alcohol will dissolve oil no question, Also it will evaporate quickly which why we use it alot in ORs, It is also strong enough to strip a the surface coat off a floor, I am sure it will do something for lane oil.

Steven wrote on 12/20/2011 2:03 PM:
Strapper, nice explanation. It mirrors what we see in real life.

I'd never use Rubbing alcohol to clean grease off my kitchen counter. I don't think that would be the first choice of many. It makes no more sense as the first choice for cleaning a bowling ball.

Strapper_Squared wrote on 12/20/2011 1:48 PM:Really, its a basic chemistry problem. Like dissolves like. Rubbing alcohol is.... Well an alcohol. Chemically, it doesn't look very much like lane oil. If you took a clear bottle and filled with rubbing alcohol and lane oil, you would see two layers... They don't mix. It does look much like water though... And is quite happy to mix with water. Cleaners and other detergents have molecules called surfactants, where half of the molecule looks similar to oils and half looks similar to water or alcohol. Thus have the ability to dissolve oils and rinse away with water..

What's this mean for ball cleaners? Alcohol wouldn't be my first choice as a ball cleaner to remove lane oil.

S^2

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

MainzerPower

Edited by mainzer on 12/20/2011 at 4:26 PM

Author Topic: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner (Read 76953 times)

mr300ny

Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

charlest

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

mainzer

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

mainzer

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

Brickguy221

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

mainzer

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

scotts33

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

charlest

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

jrs813

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

mainzer

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

Good Times Good Times

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

scotts33

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

Strapper_Squared

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

Steven

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner

mainzer

Re: Rubbing Alcohol as a Ball Cleaner