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Author Topic: Phil and Mo  (Read 1389 times)

AlonzoHarris

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Phil and Mo
« on: January 17, 2017, 03:04:15 PM »
What on the current market besides the obvious (Radical), did Mo and/or Phil create or influence during their time at the respective company?
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CoorZero

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 11:43:38 PM »
That Facebook Live video Phil did today was great. Gave a lot of insight about Radical. Something that really stuck out to me was how he and the rest of the company seem pretty committed to focusing on equipment on the stronger end of the scale. Which makes sense since that's what we've seen from them recently.

Kind of what I'm starting to see on the lanes too. Anything outside is just gone too quickly. Gotta keep moving in and shelling up or using something equally strong just with a different motion.

Anyways, I'm a fan of what I've seen from Radical. Just waiting for a good opportunity (cough *good deal* cough) to try something from them that fits a need...

Aloarjr810

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 09:43:31 AM »
What on the current market besides the obvious (Radical), did Mo and/or Phil create or influence during their time at the respective company?

I think from reading Mo's posts/articles he invented everything connected with a bowling ball.

He either invented it or if another company had a idea it was a old idea he had years ago or "bullpucky" "marketing" and wouldn't work until he improved it and fixed it. LOL
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billdozer

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2017, 11:24:51 AM »
That Facebook Live video Phil did today was great. Gave a lot of insight about Radical. Something that really stuck out to me was how he and the rest of the company seem pretty committed to focusing on equipment on the stronger end of the scale. Which makes sense since that's what we've seen from them recently.

Kind of what I'm starting to see on the lanes too. Anything outside is just gone too quickly. Gotta keep moving in and shelling up or using something equally strong just with a different motion.

Anyways, I'm a fan of what I've seen from Radical. Just waiting for a good opportunity (cough *good deal* cough) to try something from them that fits a need...

Me too. I'm a few more ugly storm balls away from trying something new. Lol
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robertbrowder

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2017, 02:10:42 PM »
I know that I've been very impressed with everything they have done with Radical and look forward to the next great innovation from MO and Phil.
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JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2017, 02:37:10 PM »
I've thrown balls from many manufacturers. I've thrown many balls. I have loved most of the Radical balls I've bought since the summer. I watched Phil's video (as well as past ones, and Mo's). I highly respect both of them. I was on here talking about getting the Fix and putting motion hole on it, and being accused of falling for marketing... Ridiculous Pearl (with motion hole) is my go to ball right now. Below are my opinions.

Phil kept talking about producing the strongest balls on the market and everything else is considered medium. They keep pushing these perception vs. reality videos. Here's the problem: those shots are clearly set up so the radical balls are being thrown at optimal angles. Some videos you see other balls rolling too early. Some balls too late. The Radical ball? Just right. As Phil stated, they are pushing a certain spot down lane as a break point. And for me, this motion is a match for the most part. However....

My Guru Supreme had a hook/stop motion - and he kind of confirmed that yesterday with one comment. I own a Hammer Scandal and Motiv Jackal LE. Both balls outhook the Supreme. Scandal picks up earlier with a strong, smooth motion to the pocket. The LE gets further down the lane and is very continuous. Both balls provide more hook than the Supreme, as I stated, but they also provided better shapes. Yet the Guru Supreme received one of the highest ratings before the Cash, and other companies are far behind? Don't see it.

Yesterday, I finally had the Radical Fix drilled up. Went with the "big dog" layout - as Mo put it in some of his videos. Strong asymm with motion hole. I also had a Storm Code Black drilled up. Drilled it fairly aggressive for downlane motion. On the house shot, fresh, burnt and otherwise (based on last night on 2 different pairs), the balls are fairly comparable. Code Black gets a little more length, but they cover similar number of boards. I played my usual down and in with a little speed, I got left and played a little loft, and I got further left and reduced speed and let them roll. I'd say the Fix is a tad stronger overall, but not a ton. Yet we are to believe no one comes close to Radical?

I'm sure the Alpha Crux isn't far off from the Cash. Scandal, Jackal Ghost, No Rules, Maverick, etc., etc... all probably comparable, just might hook at different points on the lane. A true perception vs reality video would show different lines being played with different surfaces, rev rates, etc. And multiple patterns.

As I said in the opening, I respect Phil and Mo. I'm constantly telling others about the brilliance of Mo's scientific background when it comes to ball motion. Yet I will not sit here and fall for the hype. The Cash may very well be the strongest ball on the market, but to saying other companies produce medium balls in comparison? Blatant lie or arrogance. My medium hook Radical balls do not compare to the competition's aggressive balls. No, they compare to the competition's medium balls. And I would argue that other companies have as stronger, or stronger equipment available. Bowlers Journal is not the be all, end all. Other sites suggest what I'm saying.

Edit: I know I went off topic from the OP. This response was more addressing some things mentioned in some subsequent posts as well as what was said in the web stream yesterday. Just my honest opinions, and I do love some of the Radical balls I own - particularly the Ridiculous Pearl.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 02:39:29 PM by JazlarVonSteich »

AlonzoHarris

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2017, 02:47:09 PM »
Nice write up Jazlar. I have to say I share a similar view point. Mine is more observation as I've only watched others roll their equipment where as you have hands on experience.

I would have liked to of seen Mo's cores with Motiv's covers. I think that could be some nice pieces.
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JohnP

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2017, 11:10:51 AM »
Rev dominant bowlers don't need the strongest balls on the market.  For them a strong ball hooks early and doesn't have very much back end, making it look "weak".  A weaker ball goes further down the lane before hooking, giving it more back end and making it look "stronger" even though it has less total hook.  --  JohnP 

bowler001

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 11:51:16 AM »
I've thrown balls from many manufacturers. I've thrown many balls. I have loved most of the Radical balls I've bought since the summer. I watched Phil's video (as well as past ones, and Mo's). I highly respect both of them. I was on here talking about getting the Fix and putting motion hole on it, and being accused of falling for marketing... Ridiculous Pearl (with motion hole) is my go to ball right now. Below are my opinions.

Phil kept talking about producing the strongest balls on the market and everything else is considered medium. They keep pushing these perception vs. reality videos. Here's the problem: those shots are clearly set up so the radical balls are being thrown at optimal angles. Some videos you see other balls rolling too early. Some balls too late. The Radical ball? Just right. As Phil stated, they are pushing a certain spot down lane as a break point. And for me, this motion is a match for the most part. However....

My Guru Supreme had a hook/stop motion - and he kind of confirmed that yesterday with one comment. I own a Hammer Scandal and Motiv Jackal LE. Both balls outhook the Supreme. Scandal picks up earlier with a strong, smooth motion to the pocket. The LE gets further down the lane and is very continuous. Both balls provide more hook than the Supreme, as I stated, but they also provided better shapes. Yet the Guru Supreme received one of the highest ratings before the Cash, and other companies are far behind? Don't see it.

Yesterday, I finally had the Radical Fix drilled up. Went with the "big dog" layout - as Mo put it in some of his videos. Strong asymm with motion hole. I also had a Storm Code Black drilled up. Drilled it fairly aggressive for downlane motion. On the house shot, fresh, burnt and otherwise (based on last night on 2 different pairs), the balls are fairly comparable. Code Black gets a little more length, but they cover similar number of boards. I played my usual down and in with a little speed, I got left and played a little loft, and I got further left and reduced speed and let them roll. I'd say the Fix is a tad stronger overall, but not a ton. Yet we are to believe no one comes close to Radical?

I'm sure the Alpha Crux isn't far off from the Cash. Scandal, Jackal Ghost, No Rules, Maverick, etc., etc... all probably comparable, just might hook at different points on the lane. A true perception vs reality video would show different lines being played with different surfaces, rev rates, etc. And multiple patterns.

As I said in the opening, I respect Phil and Mo. I'm constantly telling others about the brilliance of Mo's scientific background when it comes to ball motion. Yet I will not sit here and fall for the hype. The Cash may very well be the strongest ball on the market, but to saying other companies produce medium balls in comparison? Blatant lie or arrogance. My medium hook Radical balls do not compare to the competition's aggressive balls. No, they compare to the competition's medium balls. And I would argue that other companies have as stronger, or stronger equipment available. Bowlers Journal is not the be all, end all. Other sites suggest what I'm saying.

Edit: I know I went off topic from the OP. This response was more addressing some things mentioned in some subsequent posts as well as what was said in the web stream yesterday. Just my honest opinions, and I do love some of the Radical balls I own - particularly the Ridiculous Pearl.


Good post JVS. But let me play devil's advocate here...

As for the perception versus reality, why wouldn't they wanna set the video up for the optimal strike line for the Radical ball? Second, if that strike line isn't achievable for competing balls, it proves their point. Even in the past vids, the competing balls in some cases still hit the pocket and some even struck, just may have not gone through the pins as well or left a weak 10. I think they are very fair videos, and purely based on hook alone, they prove the point...if I can stand on 30 and throw it out to 5 and one ball makes it back and the other ball doesn't, which one hooks more? And this is in a much more controlled environment than league night. These are typically balls with identical layouts either fresh out of the box or with same amount of games thrown by a robot. And while I respect you have personal experience with the balls, it sounds like some of the balls you're comparing may not even use the same layout, may have different surface prep or may even have more lane time than the other. There are so many variables to consider in an uncontrolled environment. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt your results, and absolutely believe results will vary for each individual, but when all things are equal, the results are pretty clear. Still nice write up with your thoughts, I enjoyed reading it.

On edit: I'd be very interested to see other companies attempt a similar style video, but we have yet to see it...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:53:00 AM by bowler001 »

cheech

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2017, 01:02:03 PM »
about the sumo ball Mo designed i remember a seminar i went to that ron hickland from ebonite was there after he left ebonite. he was saying they gave Mo a dollar for every sumo ball sold and gave him a gold "medallion" (for lack of better word) with the sumo logo on it at 500,000 sold since he designed it. then he made a joke he said "you know what they gave me for the gas mask (widow) and gamebreaker design? a hand shake and a "good job" lol"

i do agree that Mo for sure concentrates on the upper end of performance especially from Morich. theyre "medium balls" could easily be used on heavy oil. as far as them being the strongest on the market i guess is depends on your definition of strongest is. if your definition is most boards covered they might not be the strongest. but when your definition is hooking on an amount of oil no other ball can hook on i believe they are the strongest.

JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2017, 02:07:32 PM »
I totally get why their perception vs reality videos are set how they are. They're marketing their balls. I have no problem with them. As I said, I enjoy several of the Radical balls I've purchased. I just find it a bit shady when they try to make all these other claims, such as it being the absolute truth. Different balls are made to hook in different spots of the lane. Of course they won't all match the Radical ball.

As for cheech's post, I define strength in terms of front to back ball motion, not side to side. From my own experiences with these balls (and I got out last night and threw more shots with the Fix, Code Black, Scandal, and Jackal LE - sold the Guru Supreme), the other balls are just as strong or stronger. I haven't thrown other Gurus besides the Supreme and Limited. I just got the Fix, and I also have a Xeno drilled with a strong double thumb layout. The Scandal and Jackal are stronger than the Radical balls.

I have not thrown the Fix on heavy oil and/or long patterns yet, but the Scandal and Jackal handled these conditions better than the Guru Supreme and Xeno. Not by a large margin, but still stronger. Yet Phil would have us believe that their high end balls are way stronger. Not in my tests.

With more throws last night, I'd say the Fix and Code Black are very close. The Fix needs more head oil, but also needs enough friction down lane to make the turn back. Given the two, it is a beast. The Code Black gets push through oil depletion and flies back at its break point. I even threw some shots two handed at the end of the night. Crazy motion. It still does well in some oil though. So I have these two balls very close in overall strength. But again, the Fix should be the clear winner according to Phil. Not seeing it.

Just my honest opinions, with absolutely no loyalty/bias towards any company or hatred towards any company. I buy way more balls than I need. It's part of my enjoyment with the sport, and allows me to fill my collecting urges.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2017, 11:43:40 AM »
I am happy that the smooth and powerful balls designed by Mo have been my biggest money makers.

The Crimson Sledgehammer which I obtained at a seminar presented by Mo was smooth and yet powerful at the pocket and will carry every corner of the pocket for me with Mo's prescribed control drilling.

Coupled with my lovely 3D Violet Hammer drilled leverage it made a travelling wet lane arsenal!  Still a nice look but in general too strongly drilled for recent years oil shortages.

On to Mo and Phil's joint venture.

To my eyes a very complete arsenal.

As evdenced by Tomorrow Smallwood almost winning on the tough PGA world championship shot! With their low end Rack Attack solid on an outside line.

Here are some balls I have seen look great from radical in others hands.

Guru original.
Guru mighty
Ridiculous Assym
Primo
Reax pearl(with a core like the 3D violet)
Rave
Grease Monkey Whack
Rack Attack solid and pearl.

The combo of talents and combination of core and coverstock they are adept at choosing, are giving a complete arsenal from weak and smooth to medium and flippy to stong and rack ripping on heavy oil.

Regards,

Luckylefty

Regards,

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Kegler300800

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2017, 11:51:01 AM »
It's too bad Radical outsourced their production to a company that makes their bowling balls in Mexico. Yes, Radical (along with Brunswick and DV8) are all made in Mexico.
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CoorZero

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Re: Phil and Mo
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2017, 11:56:23 AM »
It's too bad Radical outsourced their production to a company that makes their bowling balls in Mexico. Yes, Radical (along with Brunswick and DV8) are all made in Mexico.

So... Mexico makes nice things then.  8)