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Author Topic: Scoring and technology  (Read 3647 times)

avabob

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Scoring and technology
« on: March 19, 2018, 12:40:48 PM »
I bowled my first adult league in the fall of 1966.  I used hard rubber balls till 1975, polyester till 1981, and resin since 1992.   Highest average ever with rubber balls, 199.  Highest average with polyester, 218.  Highest average with urethane 229.  Highest average with resin.  In my opinion lane conditions had very little to do with those average increases.

Here may be more telling statistic.  In 15 years using rubber and plastic   2 300s, both with plastic.  In 11 years with urethane 4 300s.  In 25 years with resin, 38 300s.

Not only is it clear that resin balls had a monumental impact on award scores, it is just as interesting that they had a much smaller impact on averages.  I know I am only one person, but my experience is similar to that of most other top scratch bowlers during an era that transcends ball evolution

 

itsallaboutme

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 08:47:13 AM »
Uh, you're 45, in the early 80's you were 10.  You quit 25 years ago and returned 4 years ago, but you bowled during the beginning of the resin era.  Looks like you need a math lesson.

avabob

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 09:42:59 AM »
Lane conditions can be used to control scoring with plastic and urethane.  Not so much with resin. Sport patterns have been around for 20 years now, and good scratch bowlers are shooting decent scores on them with resin.. 

itsallaboutme

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 09:51:46 AM »
What resin and current lane conditioning procedures have eliminated is the medium scoring pace.  Somebody is either averaging 250 or the conditions are brutally hard.

amyers2002

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 09:54:15 AM »
Uh, you're 45, in the early 80's you were 10.  You quit 25 years ago and returned 4 years ago, but you bowled during the beginning of the resin era.  Looks like you need a math lesson.

Well in the interest of brevity I was incorrect should have said I started bowling in the early 80's. I can see where that could cause some confusion

By the beginning of the resin area I meant when I first started seeing them in proshops was in the late 80's early 90's mainly the Hammer Red Hammer resin ball as it was the first one I seen sell in appreciable numbers there may have been some Xcalibur and others before that but I don't remember seeing them much.

If were exate dating stuff I guess I was out 22 years as I quit in 1996 and returned in 2012 which also means I've been back for closer to 5-6 years now

Sorry if my inprecise dates were confusing you



Juggernaut

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2018, 10:24:40 AM »
This is going to sound a bit off coming from me, because I used to rag on resin balls as much as ANYBODY on this forum, but I am proof that even old dogs can learn new tricks.

 Yes, bowling ball tech has played a very big part in the “scoring revolution”, but the biggest player, by default, MUST be lane conditions.

 NO ball can overcome lane conditions. If you dry them totally out, you can’t hardly even get any ball to the pins, at least not with any side rotation on it whatsoever.

 There are also conditioners and volumes that will make it virtually impossible to get ANY ball to read the pattern and get any reaction.

 NO BALL DOES ANYTHING THAT THE LANE CONDITIONS DONT ALLOW IT TO DO.

 Resin scores so well, because it is better at creating friction than anything else so far used in ball construction. It allows you to both throw it hard AND enter the pocket at an optimum angle for striking much better than any previous coverstock technology, but it will not, BY ITSELF, create scores.

YOU CAN KILL RESIN WITH THE WRONG CONDITION, JUST LIKE YOU CAN ANYTHING ELSE.

 It is just better at exploiting the proper conditions better than anything previous to it.

 Rubber balls worked because the conditions allowed them to. Likewise with polyester, urethane, and now resin.

 Rubber exploited soft wood and lacquer finishes which would probably preclude 95% of people from even using a resin ball, and resin exploits harder synthetics with urethane finishes that probably preclude 99% of people from even using a rubber ball.

 DEAL WITH IT, BECAUSE CONDITION IS KING!

 
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avabob

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2018, 10:44:58 AM »
You are absolutely correct that you can cut oil down enough to negate the power of resin balls.  However given normal volumes necessary to protect the lane surface from high friction resin, the edge to edge pattern can be over powered quickly with resin.  Not so much with plastic or urethane.  Example.  I recently bowled for the championship in a local tourney against a PBA tour player with national championships.  Qualifying was tough.  I made match play with 10 over for 5 games.  By the championship match, my opponent and I both had a great shot to the pocket.  Unfortunately for me my carry was not do good as I had to move deeper with my slow ball speed.  He shot 258, 279 at me in a 2 game match.  With anything other than resin the pattern would not have opened up as quickly, and carry potential would not have been close.

Carry potential with resin astronomically better with resin, but it is also more volatile if your speed and rev rate don't match up.  More speed had become necessary because of the extreme friction created by dry off the end of the oil.  Stripping the back ends isn't the issue.  Shot my last 300 playing fall back at 17 board on  47 foot pattern.  For you young guys fall back is what we call keeping the break point inside of 10-12 board when playing  inside of 3rd arrow.

The first time I realized the impact of resin was bowling the last night of a singles league 25 years ago.  I had just gotten an excaliber.  During the step ladder the carrydown was killing everyone with their blue hammers  Nobody cracked 170.  Carrydown was killing me too on the warmup pair.  Then I got out the excaliber and coasted in my match as the resin ball cut through the carry down.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:57:33 AM by avabob »

Kegler300800

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2018, 11:33:47 AM »
Before resin 300 was an accomplishment, and 200 average was something, now anyone can shoot 300 and average 200

I'm so tired of hearing this. It is such a horrible generalization of bowling and does nothing to help the sport. I know people who put their heart and soul into bowling and do not average 200 and do not have  a 300 game.

Is it easier to average 200? Yes. Is it easier to bowl a 300 game? Yes. But NO, everyone is not doing it.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 10:44:41 AM by Kegler300800 »
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rocky61201

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2018, 11:55:56 AM »
Before resin 300 was an accomplishment, and 200 average was something, now anyone can shoot 300 and average 200

I'm so tired of hearing this. As such a horrible generalization of bowling and does nothing to help the sport. I know people who put their heart and soul into bowling and do not average 200 and do not have  a 300 game.

Is it easier to average 200? Yes. Is it easier to bowl a 300 game? Yes. But NO, everyone is not doing it.

I hear ya.  I'm an 80's kid and loved that era but I have no problem saying just about everything has improved since then.  Cars are faster, equipment for all sports is better (golf, baseball, football, tennis, etc..) computers, appliances, damn near everything.  But bowling is ruined.....whatever.

But the one thing I do miss is hot chicks with big hair.
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vwDiesel

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2018, 11:56:17 AM »
Quote
DEAL WITH IT, BECAUSE CONDITION IS KING!

Agreed, based on my experience.

One league I bowl in uses a house shot that barely breaks down. My adjustment is usually one 3/1 move and maybe a ball change (maybe, just to change carry.) The racks in this house are filled with No Rules, No Rules Pearls, Sure Locks, Nirvanas, etc., yet the shot in game 3 is very close to the warmup shot.

In another house league, the shot is transitioning at the end of warmups. Any pro-level balls on the racks are highly polished, and I see far more mid-level equipment being used. The shot in this league breaks down immediately, with all of the hallmarks of modern equipment's effect on the pattern. Multiple moves inside, ball changes, maybe a giant move to another zone are all in play.

The difference is the oil pattern, oil quantity, and/or quality of oil being laid down by two different houses.
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HackJandy

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 12:06:03 PM »
Before resin 300 was an accomplishment, and 200 average was something, now anyone can shoot 300 and average 200

I'm so tired of hearing this. As such a horrible generalization of bowling and does nothing to help the sport. I know people who put their heart and soul into bowling and do not average 200 and do not have  a 300 game.

Is it easier to average 200? Yes. Is it easier to bowl a 300 game? Yes. But NO, everyone is not doing it.

Don't let him pull your chain.  Throwing monkey poop is what he does.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 12:10:30 PM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

avabob

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 02:27:50 PM »
In 1972 eight guys in my 30 man scratch league averaged over 200.  None were PBA caliber.  Lots of places were still very tough back then, but top bowling towns had high scoring houses.  Nothing like during the short oil eta of the 80's.  I averaged 220 during that era, but couldn't beat any of the young power players in area tournaments

itsallaboutme

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2018, 02:55:48 PM »
And lanes used to be conditioned with a bug sprayer and a mop and now are conditioned with a machine that costs as much as a well equipped Honda Accord.  Scores would be higher in every era if the ability to oil lanes with the consistency that is available today was available then. 

avabob

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 03:32:17 PM »
Certainly agree about lane conditioning.  I used one of those spray guns in our 8 lane center when I was a kid.  Lots of things including sophisticated lane conditioning have contributed  to scoring increases .  lane conditioning is certainly a factor in higher averages.  I still think when it comes to purely award scores that the resin ball is far and away the biggest factor.  Pocket was just as easy, or easier to stay in even on the old hand oiled lanes, but carry was much more problematic.  With resin carry can be either phenomenal or abysmal.  Again, I shot more 300 s the first 3 years after resin, than in the prior 20 years with plastic and urethane on equally easy conditions.

J_w73

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 06:13:14 PM »
And lanes used to be conditioned with a bug sprayer and a mop and now are conditioned with a machine that costs as much as a well equipped Honda Accord.  Scores would be higher in every era if the ability to oil lanes with the consistency that is available today was available then. 

Agree about lane conditions.  I have seen guys come back to bowling from quitting back in the 90's.  They pull out their old 90's equipment and average 220 - 230 on a house shot.  They were averaging at most 210 back in the 90's.
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avabob

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Re: Scoring and technology
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2018, 08:32:17 AM »
Prior to the modern lane machines there was a lot more variations in scoring conditions from center to center, or city to city.  Hot beads of bowling like St Louis, Detroit, LA, Seattle had high scoring conditions going back to the 50 s.  The Buds didn't shoot their record on a brickyard.  I bowled a tourney at a place in St Louis called Arcade Lanes in 1978.  Scores were phenomenal.  Rubber balls, plastic, all worked.

Another example.  My last year of college in 1971 I averaged 185 in a 12 lane off campus center.  I shot a 714 in the city tournament that was a house record.  High average in the hiuse was less than 190.The next year I moved to a city with about 8 centers.  I joined the best 5 man scratch league in town and averaged 200 using the same hard rubber ball.  Some of the centers were brutal, but 4 or 5 of them were all as high scoring as where I bowled. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 09:20:50 AM by avabob »