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Author Topic: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference  (Read 10294 times)

Bowl_Freak

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Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« on: July 06, 2018, 01:13:34 PM »
With having this rule in effect this coming season, is the new rule gonna give any particular style and advantage with the added side weight allowance? Will it make a noticeable difference in reaction and/or pin carry? Asking for a friend... ;) ;) ;)

 

billdozer

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2018, 02:12:19 PM »
I'm not gonna change a thing. My game typically didn't care for weight holes so I typically never used em unless I needed an OIL monster haha. 

I think there's gonna be a ton of people with illegal equipment come 2020. And people experimenting for the next two years. 

I don't think there will be too much difference until the ball manufacturers develop cores to change the specs again, but I feel once things settle down and get boring again, the USBC will create something to counteract any benefits to the new ruling.

Think about it, there's no huge benefit now, especially with USBC testing it before passing the rule.

Once ball manufacturers get behind this there might some interesting changes, and things being done...

You won't see this CHANGE untill all the balls support this new method.  You might even see the hierarchy change a bit, radical may become more and more popular, being mo knows what to do with this scenario. 

We also might see alot of bowlers quit over having to get new stuff.. I know some older guys will probably hang it up and be angry haha.
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BowlingForDonuts

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 03:58:55 PM »
With having this rule in effect this coming season, is the new rule gonna give any particular style and advantage with the added side weight allowance? Will it make a noticeable difference in reaction and/or pin carry? Asking for a friend... ;) ;) ;)

Plugged the motion hole already on several of my stronger pieces with stacked leverage which I wasn't happy with (one was on the val but other 3 were P4s).  Will report back but so far the one I have thrown I liked the reaction a little more.  Technically on paper you may lose some backend (as can reduce int diff) but not much from what I see and does seem to help slightly with over under (I emphasize slight, could all be in my head even).  Static weight will matter more with pancake cores from what I understand.  Would be curious myself to see if people like 2.5oz finger and side weight on a Scout.  Am holding some NIB stuff back until see how this all shakes out.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 04:41:16 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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Impending Doom

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 04:38:35 PM »
Side weight = nothing.

six pack

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 07:45:09 PM »
the only difference I think I'll see is an ugly plug in my pretty HB. >:(
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BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 09:11:09 PM »
Read between the lines here.  The reason USBC is giving us 3 oz. is because it means LESS than the current rules that allowed extra holes.  Am I upset?  I actually don't care one iota.

It's their other ruling that prohibits the guy whose ball comes ball from the pinsetter with crap all over it from cleaning it with an APPROVED cleaner during play that has me baffled. 

The sooner these idiots learn that you can't "legislate" honesty/integrity the better we'll all be.   If someone wants to destroy their ball's cover by using illegal chemicals to clean with I say let them.  USBC is punishing their whole membership for the actions of a relative few.  Go figure...




« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 09:19:59 PM by notclay »

Bowler19525

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 09:47:27 PM »
Read between the lines here.  The reason USBC is giving us 3 oz. is because it means LESS than the current rules that allowed extra holes.  Am I upset?  I actually don't care one iota.

It's their other ruling that prohibits the guy whose ball comes ball from the pinsetter with crap all over it from cleaning it with an APPROVED cleaner during play that has me baffled. 



The USBC has clarified in the FAQ that there will be no Approved Anytime cleaners in 2019.  If a bowler has a situation where a ball has marks or a substance that cannot be removed with a dry towel during sanctioned competition, they can consult with a league or tournament official about cleaning the ball with a cleaner on the approved list.

The biggest issue with the new specs will be with no thumb bowlers, and bowlers who don't use all finger holes all the time.  There have already been words between bowlers at the local center.   The no thumb guys think they will still be allowed "performance holes", and don't understand they cannot have anything other than finger holes.  The bowlers that only put one finger in their ball to pick up spares don't get they cannot do that anymore either. 

The local association has already started spreading the word, and the local center said they will be watching bowlers closely in the fall of 2020 to ensure compliance.  They also said with 2 years notice there will be no excuse for sanctioned bowlers to not be in compliance.  There will also be heavy reliance on PSOs to drill new equipment under the new rules and explain to customers what can and cannot be done.

At the end of the day this is going to be an absolute trainwreck, and there will be a lot of arguments the first few weeks of fall 2020 sanctioned leagues.  If the USBC was smart,  they would mail the FAQ to every sanctioned bowler from the past 3 seasons to the address on file.  Communication is crucial for this type of change, and it hasn't been very well communicated so far. 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 02:36:15 AM by Bowler19525 »

tburky

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 05:12:33 PM »
When has the usbc done anything smart...never! Weight holes don’t mean anything to me and cleaners I don’t use until after bowling. The whole point of weight hole legislation is meaningless because average bowlers don’t throw the ball consistently to take the advantage of maybe 2 boards total hook at the max. The usbc is and always will be a joke.

spmcgivern

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2018, 07:41:06 AM »
The biggest issue with the new specs will be with no thumb bowlers, and bowlers who don't use all finger holes all the time.  There have already been words between bowlers at the local center.   The no thumb guys think they will still be allowed "performance holes", and don't understand they cannot have anything other than finger holes.  The bowlers that only put one finger in their ball to pick up spares don't get they cannot do that anymore either. 

The local association has already started spreading the word, and the local center said they will be watching bowlers closely in the fall of 2020 to ensure compliance.  They also said with 2 years notice there will be no excuse for sanctioned bowlers to not be in compliance.  There will also be heavy reliance on PSOs to drill new equipment under the new rules and explain to customers what can and cannot be done.

Why would the bowling center care what the USBC rules are for extra holes?  The center should not be the enforcer of the rules.  Is the center going to tell open play hot shots who throw house balls with two-fingers they have to put their thumb in the finger sized thumb hole?  Of course not. 

It is up to the league members and league officers to enforce the new rules. 

BrunsNick

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 08:02:01 AM »
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ignitebowling

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 08:30:01 AM »
I will do a post later this week using blueprint to simulate some different results using side weight….. Just a preview for all you old school pancake weight block guys from back in the day when "static weights mattered".

Testing a plastic ball with 2ozs positive side weight vs 2.3 ozs negative side weight had a hooking difference of just over 1 board in total hook on a 15lb ball.

Also keep in mind on a pancake weight block the cg is the low rg axis.  So when creating these differences in static weight also created big shifts in the pin location. The positive side weight ball had a 2" pin to pap and the negative side weight ball was roughly 6.5" pin to pap.

Will be able to try using the Spare+ which has a core to keep the pin/mb the same and only change the statics with the cg vs a pancake weight block and see the simulated results.
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BeerLeague

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 10:48:05 AM »
The entire reason for this rule change nonsense is the rule bending by the no-thumbers with flipping the ball backwards and drilling thumbholes they don't use.

I still feel they need to deal with the cause of the problem instead on penalizing people who respect the rules instead of creating more problems.

It is a 100% certainty that come Jan 1, 2020 - there will be a lot of "illegal" equipment in play.  There will also be a lot of league vacancies once the rules get "enforced."

I bowl one competitive league and one beer league.  I can see the competitive league conforming and being in the know, but the beer league is another story.  You have no-thumbers using 15 year old stuff that was given to them .... they just don't care since they can score with it on the mega-wall.  Its about a night out.  -- Let's see what happens when they are told they can't use that ball anymore or they need to get the magic thumb they may or may not use plugged. -- if the ball will even scale legal after that.

THe USBC needs to deal with the no-thumb stuff and please leave the rest of us alone.  The USGA has proved you regulate styles of play (anchored putting, head on putting come to mind.) and the USBC should follow.  PGA pros who had to give up the anchored putter are still on tour and competitive.  Belmonte and the rest of the 2 finger wonders will survive too.




« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 10:55:53 AM by BeerLeague »

DP3

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 10:49:24 AM »
I'm waiting, with popcorn, for the outrage as soon as a two hander shoots the lights out with 3oz side.

BeerLeague

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 10:56:52 AM »
I'm waiting, with popcorn, for the outrage as soon as a two hander shoots the lights out with 3oz side.

I agree ... as the increased rev rate generated by the style gives a definite advantage over the field ... no doubt about it.

Impending Doom

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Re: Side/Top/Finger weight rule...much difference
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 11:02:30 AM »
I'm waiting, with popcorn, for the outrage as soon as a two hander shoots the lights out with 3oz side.

I'm waiting for there to be a rule stating that I can't throw the ball.overhand.