Everyone knows my stance on this. I like the idea of this, however, you have to take the ball out of the equation.

Technology has driven up the costs of this sport. Manufactures have got us all hooked. This site is proof. Many on here with 10 plus bowling balls. Why? Because the bowling ball arsenal works. Unfortunately it comes with a high price tag. Not many bowlers can afford this.

There are gaps between levels of bowlers and tough oil patterns don't help. Oil patterns adds complexity to equation. And usually the solution is to buy a ball to combat the pattern.

We all know the truth here. The high end ball is the reason for high honor scores and high averages. THS has helped too, but the ball is the big issue here.

I will also say that a tougher shot would be better, but like others have said it will not promote enough revenue for the bowling alley. They are in business to make money, not lose and unfortunately they will lose money because most people that bowl in leagues do not want a tougher condition to bowl on. This is a great concept, but in reality it will not happen.

Just a little note .. probable doesn't apply, didn't read all the postings ..

I started a Summer league after having leg problems to end the winter league .. Summer league has 6 teams of 4 bowlers per team. I missed first week .. bowled last night for first time of two week old league. There have been three different individuals that have thrown 300 games already! In my one attempt I averaged 165 .. my leg problem continues but I wanted to bowl at least 1 league during the summer.

Are the shots too easy? Are the balls too good? Whatever it is .. scoring seems to be too easy! You can't judge by my performance ..

Let me first just say I am on Dooms team.

This is my first attempt at a sports league, and it didn't go very well, but its just the first night and I WILL IMPROVE.

I did this sports League to challenge myself and improve my bowling abilities. Hoping I will improve myself for the future.

Maybe I thought I was better than I was. After last years Nat. Tourney I shot fairly well, but last Tuesday kicked my butt. 

And to each his own, if people want to talk about this more power to em.
If you don't like it don't read it, but their is no reason to go after the op for wanting to talk about this.

I think their is enough room for both and everybody can have what they want.

I think many more serious bowlers would love the opportunity to bowl sports leagues and other tougher patterns.. Problem is, where are they? Some cities/towns have a couple going, only 10-20 minutes drive away. Others are considerably further..

Many of us have to get up early for our "real" job, and it can begin quite early.. So for me, I end up bowling at my local house, where all I ever bowl on is their THS.. It's not hard, just have to do be consistant in speed,revs and balance for the most part.

I feel  Impending Doom, u might consider pulling your  their head in, and take into account peoples lives, with time,money and family commitments, before paying out on house bowlers..

I think toughening up a house shot, would bring some of the big house dogs down, but really, the problem is so much bigger than simply harder conditions. To think, u would let centers close down, and only the commited will stay, well, lets see how u feel when u have to possibly travel over an hour to get to the 1 regional bowling center in your area, as do the other thousands of league bowlers,  just to bowl league.. Bowling WILL DIE even quicker than what is happening today..Seems to be a very selfish attitude to take, if u love bowling as much as u claim.

Hate using golf to compare, but when I shoot 80 on my local course (I never have I'm learning around 120 at the mo, I'm terrible lol), I know that shooting that score at St Andrews or Pebble Beach is not going to happen.. It's still ALL golf, it's just relative!! We just have to be honest with ourselves.. If the 225 plus big dogs at your center prance around, u know, that on a harder shot, they will be nowhere near that..They are just kidding themselves, let them have their glory, or if u resent them, BEAT THEM..Don't hate them for being better than u..Do something about it, and practise!

I actually envy you Impending Doom, that u can participate in a sports league!! But equally it would be nice to think that u may have more respect for house bowlers, who through no fault of there own do not get that opportunity..



I like the idea of setting up a Sports shot, just do not have any centers putting it down.. Thats not my fault, I would sign up tomorrow if my local center did that..

Just my 2c here..

Bottom line, I'll bowl on whatever I get period!! Why, cause I love bowling!

Wow. Name calling... I see some of you have been hanging around with my 12 year old...

Elitist? I prefer purist.
Idiot? Not even close.
Imbecile? Good use of your thesaurus.
Numbnuts? Hey, that's caused by a childhood accid.. er, wait. Nevermind.

Listen, you want your easy house shot? Go ahead. Just call it what it is. It's not bowling. It's the Ray Charles Open. It's Adult Bumper Bowling. It's people that don't want to put any time or effort in, and want the maximum out of it, and if they don't get what they think they deserve, well, gosh darn it, it must be the arrow, not the Indian!

In my line of work, there are 3 kinds of people, and I find that this also applied when I ran my pro shop.

1. The person that knows little to nothing about the specific topic. So, in this instance, a new bowler.
2. The person that knows enough to be dangerous. This would be most of the house bowlers that think that they can coach you, tell you that your stuff is drilled wrong because it doesn't look like his stuff, and could do the pro shops job much better than the owner operator.
3. The person that actually has a clue. Those people hardly speak up anymore, because they let #2 just run their mouths until they run themselves into a corner, and can't explain their way out of it.

Don't sanction the THS leagues. No more rings or plaques or anything like that. You want sanctioning? Make the house follow a baseline oil pattern. If you don't, too bad. You explain it to your customer.

Our numbers are already down. Centers are closing down all over the place already. Don't everyone act like bowling is a booming business right now. Know why there is no one in your centers?

No one needs to practice on the easy shot! Surprise!

You tell bowlers that they are going to have a chance to practice on something other than the house shot, people will show up. If it's just the house shot, what's the point? Everyone can score on the house shot!

When I ran my shop, I had it in a 36 lane house. The GM (what a joke he was) wouldn't do anything different during the day. Not change the shot, not charge less, nothing. He told me that it costs him money, and he wasn't going to give anything away. He told me this as the entire house was empty, and remained empty until 5. Yeah, that's smart.

Equipment... OK. I'll use plastic. Everyone else does too. Bring the loads that the oil machine is putting out down to the level where a plastic ball is going to make some sense. No need for the big puddle in the middle anymore, right? No more big hooking, big flaring balls tearing up our lane beds! We can save money and use less oil!

We can have a handle on equipment as well. USBC just recently reduced the max diff from .080 to .060. With the rate that people replace equipment, everyone being at that level is going to be a reality soon.

Well, let's reduce it to .040. Let's get a handle on RA values. Let's get rid of asymmetricals. It's all doable... It will just take time to have that be the standard.

And if you've heard this all before, what the hell are you doing about the problem? Are you a watercooler kind of person, who talks about all the injustice in the world, or do you actually go out, and try to change things?

Last time I checked, we were all bowlers. You wanna stand by while the powers that be wreck it? That's on you, buddy.

Not me.

P.S. Since this has been posted 1000 times, I am also going to go start a thread about what the hell a ball drilled Rico will do. That topic hasn't been beaten to death. 

Bowling, in my opinion, needs both the easy conditions and the tougher ones. I prefer the challenge of the tougher ones, which is why I'm bowling one this summer.

However, the masses want to have fun and and their self esteem is closely tied to their scores.  They want to show off to the open play people. They want a ball for every possible condition, even though they will only bowl on the THS. They buy beer (or sodas), and contrary to some, they pay the bills so the center you bowl at can keep the doors open.

Sport bowling leagues are great, and for a relatively small portion of us provide a reality check as to our true skill levels. They force us to be accurate and repeat shots with consistency, or pay the price. However, if that were the only thing available, the same center that offers you the sport condition might close it's doors because their customer base went to the competition, who puts out the easier shot.

It has everything to do with human nature, and very little to do with bowling, and the fact that most people will choose the path of least resistance.

Not everyone is a bowling purist. Some do it for recreation, or giggles, or camaraderie with their friends. If you chase away the majority of bowlers (and their revenue) you will have no place to bowl your sport league before long.

Pretty much agree with much of this. As a side note, though, and IMHO, the crude "black and white" world of THS and sport bowling painted in the original post does not really exist. It is a vision of self-proclaimed elitists and it does not help anyone. I pretty much agree with Carter's impression, that you need the whole range, from children's birthday parties up to professional levels, where lane intelligence is part of the game.

Having just one end of both extremes won't save the game, sport, or whatever you call bowling. And as long as economic factors dictate the conditions for players (e .g. putting out only minimum lane conditioner to protect the lane surface) and many egos are involved (love those senior players with no hand, 10mph speed and tossing high end orbs, then complain about the poor carry and that 'the ball does not hook'... you know the archetypes [Class 2 - nice portrait!]), the "Class 3 bowlers" will have a hard time and remain a minority who must be lucky to find a house and probably a ball driller who has sport ambitions and "understands" that bowling is more than just punching 3 holes into an expensive plastic thing, in order to cover as many boards as possible without clue of the item's operator. Sad, but that's the way it is, and I cannot see any way to change it, esp. from a governing body's point of view.

Additionally, a point from the previous post: I'd personally love to play/practice on tougher conditions, I'd be even happy there was just enough oil out there to use anything from a weak reactive upwards. But the only occasion I find this might be a "sport league", which will take place in the evening in a neighboring city - totally unrealistic for my life reality.

Personally I think any decision one way or the other could be a detriment to the sport as a whole and eventually shut it down.  The "elitists" only account for about 10% of the total bowling population.  If the USBC starts to cater to what the 10% want, then who is to say that 50% of that remaining 90% go bye bye?  And then what?  Now your total membership drops significantly further and then centers are going to have to become what we dont want and that is family entertainment centers that now have to care only about open play and parties. 

IMO....there is no reason that we cant make a shot that is a little tougher, thats fair to everyone without sacrificing too much of the scoring pace, and yet have enough length and volume for todays bowling balls.  The difference between your high average league bowler dropping from 230+ down to 220 and your 200 bowler dropping to 185-190 is not so significant that I dont think people are going to quit.  However, if your 230 THS drops to 200-210 and your 190 drops to 165-170, then you will start to see people walking.  I think if you take these houses that have 8:1 to 10:1 volume ratios and drop them into the 4:1 area, it toughens the shot without making them unfair.  But if you take that ratio and drop it to where the USBC ratio is this year, then I think no doubt people will turn the other way.  I believe if centers can come up with something in the 40 foot area length wise and just flatten out the pattern SOME, then bowlers actually might be more apt to focus more from shot to shot and try to become better as opposed to walking out the door.  In other words, dont make the shot too easy and yet dont make the shot too hard either.  Find a middle of the road per se and see what happens.