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Author Topic: Surface discussion, some feedback please  (Read 4679 times)

Luke Rosdahl

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Surface discussion, some feedback please
« on: July 06, 2017, 11:12:53 AM »
Had a short video idea, wanted to run it by the brains here.  Surfaces have always fit in two categories for me, traction grits and shape grits.  Traction grits are 2000 and below, or I feel like 2000 is the surface you have to use or go below to start getting more than just a smoother shape, but to actually start to increase traction significantly.  Shape grits are 3000 and 4000, strong enough to start reading in the buff enough and reducing surface area contact between ball and lane enough to smooth wet/dry transition, but not enough to affect traction virtually at all before the end of the pattern.

Was going to explain it and break it down from there, but can anyone else see it this way, is making a video even necessary or helpful, or are there any flaws in what I'm saying or thinking?  Thanks. 
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BowlingforSoup

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 11:22:11 AM »
Sounds like you nailed it what I see too.Video showing the differences could be helpful to some.

Good Times Good Times

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 11:24:12 AM »
I'll preface this with:  I'm not the brains here.   :P  :P  :P

That being said I really just try and focus on getting the ball to slow down properly.  2000, for me, IS somewhat of a benchmark grit and one I use the most.  Maybe this is the reason I prefer used 2000 pads on house patterns (primarily on synthetic surfaces) because it's right on the border you're attempting to define so I'm getting some traction and shape (by "shape" I mean angle off the spot).  Rarely do I use more surface texture than a fresh 2000 (USBC Open and some PBAX patterns being one of the few exceptions). 

I think a short video of the different surfaces highlighting the slowing down of the ball would be interesting.

Thanks for taking the time on all this stuff too.  I'm sure it's a thankless job to an extent but your efforts are appreciated.       
GTx2

leftybowler70

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 11:26:18 AM »
Luke this is crazy, because I just have come to these very conclusions myself as to shapes and tractions by the varying grits, and have decided (based on my game and style) to go smoother with all of my finishes (until I bowl difficult patterns). It's crazy how some of us are on the same page with these topics. 

Absolutely address this issue with the masses, very informative, and important factor in the modern game today.  I made my decision weeks ago( thanks for bringing this up.

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 11:41:30 AM »
I realize that every grit is a both a traction and shape grit, because when you change the surface, you change both of those things, but traction is the primary benefit/reason you use 2000 or under, shape is the primary benefit/reason of going higher. 

I will TRY to get video to illustrate my point, it's just a challenge and a lot more work involved putting all that together.  Also trying to keep it short and sweet, most people don't want to sit through a minimum 15 minute video and that's what most of my ideas lend themselves towards.  I realize sometimes there aren't any shortcuts, but finding the time becomes difficult at some point.  I've been ready to make another Beer Frame video for two months now, just haven't gotten schedules to work out yet. 
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leftybowler70

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 12:17:41 PM »
We appreciate all of your hard work and effort, always remember that Luke.

spmcgivern

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 12:22:12 PM »
Realize that 2000 for one isn't the same as 2000 for another.  I like the idea of explaining the effects of grit on the reaction/shape, but to be aimed at the "masses" the use of more than one style would be preferred. 

I know this throws a wrench in the idea perhaps, but for most people, they believe what they see and not the theory.  You could have the best explanation and demonstration with yourself, but until the typical senior, woman, low/high rev or low/speed bowler sees someone like him/her demonstrate the theory, they will not completely understand.

At least this doesn't necessarily cost additional equipment to show different reactions by different people.  Each bowler could bring their benchmark ball to show the effects.

But any information is still better than no information and your idea Luke is a great one.  The more I think about it, the more of a DB I sound like considering the level of information you already provide.  You do provide a valued product and I personally watch all your videos.

charlest

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 12:37:25 PM »
I realize that every grit is a both a traction and shape grit, because when you change the surface, you change both of those things, but traction is the primary benefit/reason you use 2000 or under, shape is the primary benefit/reason of going higher. 

For my 2 cents plain, yes, 2000 is a rational beginning for those who are rev/speed matched, to get both a potential benchmark or the start of a shape to deal with heavier oils.

Keep in mind that apparently the vast majority of new, Young crankers are very speed dominant and often need the help of incredibly dull surfaces to deal with oil heavier than true medium. (Unfortunately, these are the kinds of people who, in my opinion, need the help of Mo Pinel to get any ball into a roll.)

Quote

I will TRY to get video to illustrate my point, it's just a challenge and a lot more work involved putting all that together.  Also trying to keep it short and sweet, most people don't want to sit through a minimum 15 minute video and that's what most of my ideas lend themselves towards.  I realize sometimes there aren't any shortcuts, but finding the time becomes difficult at some point.  I've been ready to make another Beer Frame video for two months now, just haven't gotten schedules to work out yet. 

:)
Luke, you need to take a break from trying to educate the unappreciative world.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 12:44:31 PM »
On a side note, 3000 or 4000 grit can do similar things that 2000 grit does, for normal/average (rev/speed matched), for strong, grabbier coverstock/Strong cores.

In my view, anything from 1000, 2000, 3000, or 4000 can be benchmarks or ball reaction shaping grits, depending on both the strength of the bowler's delivery and the strength of the coverstock.  It always involves all the factors and their interrelationships. The factors are too tightly bound up with one another to separate them.

2000 grit can be your dividing line depending on the strength of your delivery and the ball you are using, or it can be 1000 grit or it an be 4000 grit. You cannot and should not put an arbitrary dividing line at 2000 grit. It is too restrictive.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

leftybowler70

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2017, 12:49:55 PM »
This is exactly why I asked you to call me a few months ago to help me with complications like these; makes a world of difference.

Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2017, 01:22:53 PM »
Well and I realize and appreciate that.  I'm past the whole pride or flattery thing though, if you say it's a terrible idea, I'm not going to be the least bit hurt, I'm just not going to make the video.  Trying to make sure I've got a good perspective here, because just because I think it would make for good or productive video doesn't mean I've fully thought everything out, trying not to be that ignorant or egotistical anymore.  There's a lot that goes into this topic like you said, or it's not super universal, a lot of context is needed to fully explain it or to interpret it for your game and conditions.  Sounds like if I'm going to do it, I really do need a visual to drive the concept home. 

Realize that 2000 for one isn't the same as 2000 for another.  I like the idea of explaining the effects of grit on the reaction/shape, but to be aimed at the "masses" the use of more than one style would be preferred. 

I know this throws a wrench in the idea perhaps, but for most people, they believe what they see and not the theory.  You could have the best explanation and demonstration with yourself, but until the typical senior, woman, low/high rev or low/speed bowler sees someone like him/her demonstrate the theory, they will not completely understand.

At least this doesn't necessarily cost additional equipment to show different reactions by different people.  Each bowler could bring their benchmark ball to show the effects.

But any information is still better than no information and your idea Luke is a great one.  The more I think about it, the more of a DB I sound like considering the level of information you already provide.  You do provide a valued product and I personally watch all your videos.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2017, 01:25:24 PM »
Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I'm after.  Tons of variables that could move it all over the place depending on how involved I want to get with this.  A lot of ideas I have for videos come from the perspective of regular league bowlers on an average house shot.  Lot of variables there too.  This will require more thought. 

On a side note, 3000 or 4000 grit can do similar things that 2000 grit does, for normal/average (rev/speed matched), for strong, grabbier coverstock/Strong cores.

In my view, anything from 1000, 2000, 3000, or 4000 can be benchmarks or ball reaction shaping grits, depending on both the strength of the bowler's delivery and the strength of the coverstock.  It always involves all the factors and their interrelationships. The factors are too tightly bound up with one another to separate them.

2000 grit can be your dividing line depending on the strength of your delivery and the ball you are using, or it can be 1000 grit or it an be 4000 grit. You cannot and should not put an arbitrary dividing line at 2000 grit. It is too restrictive.
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tloy

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2017, 01:34:54 PM »
Yes, please make the video. Would love to see it :)

leftybowler70

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2017, 01:50:30 PM »
Realize that 2000 for one isn't the same as 2000 for another.  I like the idea of explaining the effects of grit on the reaction/shape, but to be aimed at the "masses" the use of more than one style would be preferred. 

I know this throws a wrench in the idea perhaps, but for most people, they believe what they see and not the theory.  You could have the best explanation and demonstration with yourself, but until the typical senior, woman, low/high rev or low/speed bowler sees someone like him/her demonstrate the theory, they will not completely understand.

At least this doesn't necessarily cost additional equipment to show different reactions by different people.  Each bowler could bring their benchmark ball to show the effects.

But any information is still better than no information and your idea Luke is a great one.  The more I think about it, the more of a DB I sound like considering the level of information you already provide.  You do provide a valued product and I personally watch all your videos.

^^

spmcgivern

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Re: Surface discussion, some feedback please
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2017, 02:23:26 PM »
I hope I didn't poopoo on the idea.  I love the idea of a video and anything is better than nothing even if it is just for you on whatever shot you use.  You have the gift of gab and I feel you could give a well thought out explanation of the theories to reach a wide audience.

Like let keyboard pounders like myself deter you from producing something you feel your constituents would find value in.