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Author Topic: Surface thoughts  (Read 3169 times)

AlonzoHarris

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Surface thoughts
« on: October 25, 2016, 03:08:36 PM »
So what's the highest grit pad you would suggest before you might as well drop to a lower grit and add polish? example 5000 grit vs 1000 grit and polish.
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charlest

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 03:34:48 PM »
It depends on how you apply polish.

In general, 1500 grit base sanding + polish (NOT Storm's "1500 grit polished") has the same oil handling ability as 500/1000/2000/4000 grit (different from 500/4000 grit) but it hooks slightly earlier, with slightly less backend, and handles carrydown slightly better.

Some people tend to use so much polish, press so hard for such a long period of time, over a 1500 grit sanding, that they might as well have sanded to 4000 grit and applied polish. They make the micro-abrasive in the polish sand the peaks AND the valleys to something in the neighborhood of 5500 grit, maybe higher.

In general, when you apply polish over a 500 grit or a 1000 or even a 1500 grit sanding, you want to see the sanding lines underneath the polish. What polish should do is make the peaks finer, smoother, while retaining the deep valleys caused by the base sanding level.
(NOTE: Remember that polish is not a coating applied over the ball; it is just a smoothing of the peaks by means of a micro-abrasive.)

So you can use a compound, or a polish or a super-fine 4000 or 5000 grit pad to smooth those peaks. It depends on what you need/want to do and your skill level.

The more rev dominant you are, the more important the degree of finesse is, in applying something to smooth out those peaks. The more speed dominant you are, the less important this is to your game.

 
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AlonzoHarris

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2016, 03:59:18 PM »
Thanks for the detailed reply!
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spmcgivern

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2016, 04:55:50 PM »
Surface adjustments can be a very personal thing.  Each person who has done any extensive research or experimentation will have their way of doing it that may not match someone else.  We all use different pressures, different pads, different polishes amongst any other number of variances.

As long as the basics are understood, and charlest is the voice here on surface so definitely listen to him, you can develop your own methods that meet your needs.

Experiment and see for yourself what each combination does.  May take a while, but once you go through the process, you will be able to make the adjustments you need quickly.
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charlest

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 06:12:44 PM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on October 25, 2016, 04:55:50 PM
Surface adjustments can be a very personal thing.  Each person who has done any extensive research or experimentation will have their way of doing it that may not match someone else.  We all use different pressures, different pads, different polishes amongst any other number of variances.

As long as the basics are understood, and charlest is the voice here on surface so definitely listen to him, you can develop your own methods that meet your needs.

Experiment and see for yourself what each combination does.  May take a while, but once you go through the process, you will be able to make the adjustments you need quickly.

In my opinion, that's the key: experimenting and determining what you need, NOT what you want.
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spmcgivern

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 08:14:36 AM »
Quote from: charlest on October 25, 2016, 06:12:44 PM
In my opinion, that's the key: experimenting and determining what you need, NOT what you want.

Exactly.  Too many people don't know what they need.  We get the questions here all the time asking what 4000 or polish will do ball X.  No one here can answer that question since we aren't them, we don't know the shot they will bowl on, and we don't know what the current surface is. 

Anytime a bowler asks those questions, I want to answer, "Who the hell knows.... why don't you do it and report back.  Better yet, do it and keep a log for future reference."  But I am too nice too often.
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charlest

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 08:54:59 AM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on October 26, 2016, 08:14:36 AM
Quote from: charlest on October 25, 2016, 06:12:44 PM
In my opinion, that's the key: experimenting and determining what you need, NOT what you want.

Exactly.  Too many people don't know what they need.  We get the questions here all the time asking what 4000 or polish will do ball X.  No one here can answer that question since we aren't them, we don't know the shot they will bowl on, and we don't know what the current surface is. 

Anytime a bowler asks those questions, I want to answer, "Who the hell knows.... why don't you do it and report back.  Better yet, do it and keep a log for future reference."  But I am too nice too often.

You have to be nice with your answers; we all do, unless the guy/gal has asked the same questions before and has shown they haven't listened to what you said previously.

We all get tired if posting the same answers but not every body has the chance to read every post plus some people are new here; so we all need to remember to treat each question as if it's never been asked before. It's hard and we all human, with how we feel at the moment often coloring our response.
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spmcgivern

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 09:19:43 AM »
And that is why I leave those threads alone for the most part.  You sir are the perfect person for any surface question. 

Thank you for your contributions!!!
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charlest

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 12:15:22 PM »
Quote from: spmcgivern on October 26, 2016, 09:19:43 AM
And that is why I leave those threads alone for the most part.  You sir are the perfect person for any surface question. 

Thank you for your contributions!!!

Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it.
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todvan

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 03:06:56 PM »
In general, does say 1000 plus polish give a different reaction than 1000/light 4000?
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charlest

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 03:09:23 PM »
Quote from: todvan on October 26, 2016, 03:06:56 PM
In general, does say 1000 plus polish give a different reaction than 1000/light 4000?

Like I said above, it depends on how you polish.
Ordinarily, with a medium polish not intended to remove the sanding marks, I'd say they were equivalent, with the 4000 sanding giving a slightly earlier lane read, with a slightly smaller and less sharp backend.
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todvan

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 04:04:51 PM »
Thank you. So i am leaning towards trying some polish - something like powerhouse factory finish.  Do I need a spinner or can this be done by hand?  Just trying to keep a midland read while improving energy for the backend. 
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charlest

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 11:01:36 PM »
Quote from: todvan on October 26, 2016, 04:04:51 PM
Thank you. So i am leaning towards trying some polish - something like powerhouse factory finish.  Do I need a spinner or can this be done by hand?  Just trying to keep a midland read while improving energy for the backend. 

It's very difficult to get a shine using hand and not a spinner. In fact, unless you use some device, you're better off asking the pro shop to do it or ask them if you can use their spinner. If you can afford it, a spinner is indispensable to make surface adjustments. It costs about a new ball and half and is worth its weight in gold.
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spmcgivern

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Re: Surface thoughts
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2016, 08:28:29 AM »
Not saying polish doesn't have its place, but I tend to exhaust all my abralon (or similar) options before I go to polish.  And for me, if polish is what will get the ball to react properly, I would probably change balls first.  But of the two methods of surface adjustment, polish can be the most inconsistent. 

With that said, for you perhaps have the pro shop polish the ball, but when you go to bowl, take a 4000 pad with you.  If the polished surface is not reading the lane properly, you can take the 4000 pad to the ball to get it to try and read earlier.  If you go 4000 first, you won't be able to go higher if needed.

Also, as charlest has said, a personal spinner is indispensable to any competitive bowler.
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