win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Thumb Fit  (Read 14255 times)

dR3w

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
Thumb Fit
« on: July 31, 2014, 11:32:13 AM »
Hi all,

In the past year or two, I've been getting more and more disgusted with my fit.  My thumb has become more callused on both sides and my thumb hole has become more oval in nature.  One thing that has really caused me issues lately is that my thumb changes size so much during the course of 3 games.  When I start out, I can barely fit my thumb in the thumb hole.  After 3 games, I am dropping the ball badly because the thumb hole feels so large.   What do people out there do to cope with this type of change.  I guess tape is the obvious answer, but I dislike the constant in out changes.  Then it's always a guessing game whether I will hang if I put too much in.  I tried Ron Clifton's fuzzy tape, and have had some success, but as my thumb has oval-ed over time, it feels like it rubs my thumb in certain spots.  I have tried cutting that tape down a bit, but even that has given me mixed results.

Any suggestions?  I've been bowling for about 15 years now, and have really only had this shrinking thumb problem over the last few years.

 

xiek376

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 01:01:58 PM »
I'm certainly not an expert on this topic, but I was dealing with thumb fit issues very bad last year.  I tried lots of different suggestions.  The one that finally did the trick for me is tiered taping:

http://www.itbca.bowlingknowledge.info/index.php/2013-fall/95-tiered-taping-a-process-to-reduce-grip-pressure-and-improve-swing-release

After I figured out the right amount of tape with that, I no longer had a need to add/remove tape throughout the night.  Might be worth a shot.

Pinbuster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4583
  • Former proshop worker
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 03:10:41 PM »
Assuming you have the correct span and pitches, tape is the only real solution.

Steven does what we recommended to bowlers who shrink a lot. For about 10 minutes before they would start bowling they would force their thumbs into a vinyl insert that was too small. This will preshrink the thumb.

Some can run cold water over the thumb and others could wrap a towel/handkerchief around the thumb tightly to try and pre-shrink the thumb.

If you are getting excessive callousing on the sides of the thumb I would look into side pitch issues because you are rubbing somewhere.

I have always questioned what is 'excessive callouses'.  If I use a rake or shovel in the yard for a couple of days, I begin to develop callouses. I don't see how bowling is much different. I think you have repeated contact and friction with your thumb. This in turn causes callouses to develop.  If there is no pain, or other negative effects, I don't think that the callous is a bad thing. If the skin build up becomes excessive, remove some with a razor, but leave enough build up to protect the delicate thumb.

I've seen some thumbs that look like a tumor is growing on the side.

Some callous is natural and needed. But you shouldn't be able to look at a thumb and go obviously this person is a bowler.

bass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1063
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2014, 06:50:48 AM »
You could try thumbless.

Actually the interchangeable thumb sleeves would be the way to go but only after you have had your ball fit checked.

Then get 3 different sizes made.... small, normal and extra large for your various swelling issues.

You can even take these a step further by making them so you can put a piece of textured tape in both the front and back of the thumbhole to start with.

I am a notorious tape changer so I feel your pain.

Also if you go thru that much tape maybe look into buying a 500 piece roll.
free agency it is until i get a better offer.   LMAO

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2014, 02:17:25 PM »
Assuming you have the correct span and pitches, tape is the only real solution.

Steven does what we recommended to bowlers who shrink a lot. For about 10 minutes before they would start bowling they would force their thumbs into a vinyl insert that was too small. This will preshrink the thumb.

Some can run cold water over the thumb and others could wrap a towel/handkerchief around the thumb tightly to try and pre-shrink the thumb.

If you are getting excessive callousing on the sides of the thumb I would look into side pitch issues because you are rubbing somewhere.

I have always questioned what is 'excessive callouses'.  If I use a rake or shovel in the yard for a couple of days, I begin to develop callouses. I don't see how bowling is much different. I think you have repeated contact and friction with your thumb. This in turn causes callouses to develop.  If there is no pain, or other negative effects, I don't think that the callous is a bad thing. If the skin build up becomes excessive, remove some with a razor, but leave enough build up to protect the delicate thumb.

Once you rub, you build callus on top of callus. Period. There is no end to it. The body knows what it needs to do to protect itself. Unless you sand or cut off the callus, it will continue to enlarge, as long as there is friction. So there's basically no such thing as just enough callus; it will always be excessive.

I have been dealing with this problem for well over 40 years. So you could say I speak from experience. That said, my personal callus problem ceased when I started using tape on my thumb. I did it for to reasons: one, to help me get a cleaner release, and, two, to help prevent callus buildup and prevent blisters. Since i started using tape on my thumb, i have had ZERO blisters and have virtually no calluses on my thumb. I have averaged bowling 2-3 times per week, 52 weeks a year for the last 20 years. I started using thumb tae about 8 years ago. Since then, I have no worries about calluses or blisters.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 02:19:41 PM by charlest »
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2014, 02:47:32 PM »
Thanks to everyone who replied.  I really appreciate it.

The interchangeable thumb does sound like a good idea, but my thumb changes so much over the course of a night, as well as over the course of the season, that I probably would have to have 3 or 4 replaceable thumb inserts … just guessing.

As I implied, my thumb, like several others in this thread, changes an inordinate amount over the course of bowling, whether it be 3 games or 8 games. People who do not know or do not have the same problem, always ask why I "play" with my thumb hole and tape so much. I try to explain that they should be glad they don't have the same problem. Since they don't, they do not understand.

I would estimate that if I tried an interchangeable thumb, I'd need between 3 and 5 different sizes for each ball. Besides the fact that the system is not perfected and every one of the brands breaks in some fashion from time to time, I am not willing to even try one yet. I would suggest that you don't either.

Quote
I have looked at the foam tape, and maybe I will give that a try.

I have never liked the feel of white tape.  It makes me feel like I am going to hang, and always wind up getting tape residue when fiddling with it. 

Like anything worth doing, it takes time and experience to master. You are doing something wrong OR using the wrong tape if you are getting tape residue on your fingers.
I guarantee that. The only time I see residue is when a piece of tape has been in the thumb hole for too long. (FYI I use Master Tape, but have tried Real Bowler's Tape, Storm and Vise-Grip tape for the thumb hole, all with excellent results.)

FYI#2 I used ONLY black tape until one day I ran out and had to borrow someone else's tape and all he used was White. I was amazed: it acted like an/off switch for me. That was about 1995. I have used it exclusively ever since.
White tape is your life line. earn it, use it, love it. It will save your *ss, too many times to count.

As a matter of general principles, your thumb hole must be as large as your thumb will ever swell; that includes  some tournaments where bowling starts at 8 AM, when yor body's extremities (hands, fingers, feet, toes) are swollen beyond belief. If you doubt me, when you normally wake up (5 AM, 6 AM 8 AM, whatever) run to your bowlingbag and try to stick your hand in your bowling ball. Bet you $50 you can't!!!

So, unless you're a robot or not human, you need tape (white or black) in the front (and maybe the back) of your thumb hole. It is the thumb adjustment. Everyone swells to a lesser or greater degree. It depends on body chemistry, humidity, weather, phases of the moon, religion, politics, etc

Unless you have another way (Ron Clifton's Magic Carpet, Slick Tape or some other), white tape is your key success.

Quote
I have tried an oval drilling before, and didn't like the snug fit of the narrower hole.  I felt like the skin on the underside of my thumb would pull on exiting and prevent a clean release.  It could certainly be that after so many years of bowling with a round thumb hole, I just need to get used to it.  I think that my thumb actually seems to rotate as it exits the thumb hole, and the oval seems to stop me from getting out clean that way.

Unless you're very unusual (5% percentile), most people's thumb is oval. If not when you look at it from the end, then, when it is placed in a thumb hole and you press down to hold the ball firmly, it WILL BE oval.

For most (no, not everyone) people, even a milled thumb hole is wider, left to right than top to bottom (or back to front). You fit the thumb hole left to right, then you adjust it with tape top (back of the thumb) or bottom of thumb hole (front of the thumb).

Quote
I would love to be fit by someone who really knows how to fit.  I live in Central Virginia and would travel within the state (or perhaps even further) to find someone who really knows his/her stuff.  I have been to many coaches over my "career", and most have told me my fit is fine.  Of course that isn't the same as hearing it from someone who fits people for a living.

Contrary to what the "standard" fitting guides have suggested, I have a forward pitch in my thumb (1/4") … yet my overall span is close to 4-3/4 and 4-7/8.  I recently switched to Bill Hall's "tri-grip", and talked to him over the phone to settle on a span … but that isn't the same as being fit in person.  Somedays the fit feels good, but some days it just feels bad.  I wish I could describe it better.


Whoa! How did you get a  Bill Hall Tri-Grip without getting fit in person????
I understand that a pro shop has to buy Bill's Software and be instructed in its use to fit a person properly with it.
!/4" forawrd is within the parameters of a 4 3/4" - 4 7/8" span. I have a 4 3/4" span and use ZERO reverse with 1/4" left (away from palm) pitch; I am right handed.

Might I suggest you be more open to certain adjustments (like tape, AND different brands of tape, white and black, rough and smooth) and be willing to experiment a little more over a period of time, before deciding on a final course of action.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 02:51:32 PM by charlest »
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2014, 03:10:29 PM »

I would estimate that if I tried an interchangeable thumb, I'd need between 3 and 5 different sizes for each ball. Besides the fact that the system is not perfected and every one of the brands breaks in some fashion from time to time, I am not willing to even try one yet. I would suggest that you don't either.


Most of your analysis is fairly accurate, but I don't agree with your assessment of interchangeable thumbs. I used Turbo Switch Grip when they first came out, and I've been using the Vise IT for the past several years. I average 20-30 games a week, and I've never had a problem with the IT system. If it's installed properly, it should be bullet proof for most bowlers.
 
I say "most" because I know a few really high rev bowlers, who rip the cover off at release, experience isolated problems with IT. But I'm talking about guys in the top 5% of rev rates, who put incredible torque on the ball. Unless a bowler falls into anything close to that category, it would be foolish not to use the system, especially if you have a sizable arsenal.
 
I have swelling/shrinking issues on par with anyone, and I can't image needing more than three sizes. I do have three, and 95% of the time I'm alternating between 2 of them. I make tape adjustments to deal with any fine tuning needed.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 03:19:05 PM by Steven »

ccrider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2230
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 03:36:08 PM »
Charlest, how can you have a right fit and not rub some?

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2014, 03:50:41 PM »
Charlest, how can you have a right fit and not rub some?

The rubbing is on the tape, not on my thumb surface.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2014, 03:59:16 PM »

I would estimate that if I tried an interchangeable thumb, I'd need between 3 and 5 different sizes for each ball. Besides the fact that the system is not perfected and every one of the brands breaks in some fashion from time to time, I am not willing to even try one yet. I would suggest that you don't either.


Most of your analysis is fairly accurate, but I don't agree with your assessment of interchangeable thumbs. I used Turbo Switch Grip when they first came out, and I've been using the Vise IT for the past several years. I average 20-30 games a week, and I've never had a problem with the IT system. If it's installed properly, it should be bullet proof for most bowlers.
 
I say "most" because I know a few really high rev bowlers, who rip the cover off at release, experience isolated problems with IT. But I'm talking about guys in the top 5% of rev rates, who put incredible torque on the ball. Unless a bowler falls into anything close to that category, it would be foolish not to use the system, especially if you have a sizable arsenal.
 
I have swelling/shrinking issues on par with anyone, and I can't image needing more than three sizes. I do have three, and 95% of the time I'm alternating between 2 of them. I make tape adjustments to deal with any fine tuning needed.

Steven,

That's your personal experience. I wouldn't say you found otherwise, but other people have. Barnes earned the hard way that he wasn't perfect. Yes, that's the exception, but tape doesn't have that all or nothing effect.

Plus is you also use tape on top of the 3 different sizes, that adds an additional complication. For the time being, I will stick to thumb hole tape personally. Let anyone who wishes experiment on their own. I just don't feel I can recommend it ... yet. (And, yes, I know several people personally who swear by them, as you do.)
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2014, 04:24:22 PM »

Steven,

That's your personal experience. I wouldn't say you found otherwise, but other people have. Barnes earned the hard way that he wasn't perfect. Yes, that's the exception, but tape doesn't have that all or nothing effect.

Plus is you also use tape on top of the 3 different sizes, that adds an additional complication. For the time being, I will stick to thumb hole tape personally. Let anyone who wishes experiment on their own. I just don't feel I can recommend it ... yet. (And, yes, I know several people personally who swear by them, as you do.)

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over it, but I mentioned it because for the vast majority of users, interchangeable thumbs don't cause issues. I've seen the glue come loose on "permanent" thumb slugs (twice) as often as I've seen failures on IT's. Bowl the Senior Masters, or any of the other PBA50 events and you'll see at least as many balls with interchangeable's as without. In these tournaments, nobody is using technology they can't rely on.
 
Also, I don't understand your comment about thumb tape causing issues on the different sizes. My base configuration on any thumb is three pieces of white in front, and one on the back. Based on the sized Interchangeable I'm using, I'll either add or subtract a piece in front to fine tune the grip. If that doesn't work, it's time to go with to a different size thumb. I find it quite simple.
 
As always, it's up to the individual to decide if it's worth the hassle to try something new.  For Interchangeable thumbs, I hate to see fear as a reason for passing.

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2014, 04:52:32 PM »
Without completely read through I'll add my opinion on the original post...
Proper AND improper fits create callouses, understand releasing a bowling creates callouses of some sort as releasing a bowling, through acceleration, creates friction, thus callouses.
And everyone's thumb or digits will swell to some extreme due to varying complications, weather, temperature, any liquids or food consumed AND how much the individual grips or SQUEEZES and TRUST me, everyone squeezes...now with all that being said, you have a fit problem - plain & simple. Until you get a proper fit - SPAN and ANGLES - nothing else matters...slugs, tape or interchangeable inserts....NOTHING.
go get reFIT by a qualified pro shop professional and ACCEPT the fact you have GRIP ISSUES
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2014, 04:57:28 PM »

Steven,

That's your personal experience. I wouldn't say you found otherwise, but other people have. Barnes earned the hard way that he wasn't perfect. Yes, that's the exception, but tape doesn't have that all or nothing effect.

Plus is you also use tape on top of the 3 different sizes, that adds an additional complication. For the time being, I will stick to thumb hole tape personally. Let anyone who wishes experiment on their own. I just don't feel I can recommend it ... yet. (And, yes, I know several people personally who swear by them, as you do.)

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over it, but I mentioned it because for the vast majority of users, interchangeable thumbs don't cause issues. I've seen the glue come loose on "permanent" thumb slugs (twice) as often as I've seen failures on IT's. Bowl the Senior Masters, or any of the other PBA50 events and you'll see at least as many balls with interchangeable's as without. In these tournaments, nobody is using technology they can't rely on.

Understood. No pissing contest.

 
Quote
Also, I don't understand your comment about thumb tape causing issues on the different sizes. My base configuration on any thumb is three pieces of white in front, and one on the back. Based on the sized Interchangeable I'm using, I'll either add or subtract a piece in front to fine tune the grip. If that doesn't work, it's time to go with to a different size thumb. I find it quite simple.

I said that because you said you still had to use tape with the switchable inserts,

Quote
As always, it's up to the individual to decide if it's worth the hassle to try something new.  For Interchangeable thumbs, I hate to see fear as a reason for passing.

My personal "fear" is twofold, oops, make that 3-fold. 1) That I'd need 3 or more inserts; 2) that it might break, although the chance seems to be vanishingly small (I have had so many thumb problems over the years, that the potentiality of another one makes me want the percentage of failure to be infinitesimally small.), 2) [new problem] the size of the hole required  makes me concerned about weight holes and required top weight and how much is removed. (This may wind up being nothing, but not having done anything in this regard, all I have done is see the large holes where people's thumb hole is.)
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2014, 05:01:21 PM »
Any interchangeable inserts alter the inner dynamics, more so than most realize
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

amyers2002

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2014, 05:33:04 PM »
Rico


Can the problem of blistering be caused by gripping the ball too much or is it usually a fit problem. I've been fighting blistering on the top rt side of my thumb 1/4 to 1/2 inch below my nail. At first my driller told me it was a fit problem made a couple adjustments still had the blistering problem. Now I'm being told it's me gripping the ball. I've been working on it for 8 months still having the same issue.

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Thumb Fit
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2014, 05:49:02 PM »
Gripping generally references the feeling of losing control of the bowling ball - the primary influencers are improper span or the thumb hole being too big - the bowling ball should fit on the bowlers hand and supported by the wrist and releases thru gravity & momentum
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com