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Author Topic: Timing Question and Ball Weight  (Read 2602 times)

scrub49

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Timing Question and Ball Weight
« on: October 28, 2016, 09:39:48 AM »
Can the wrong ball weight cause bad timing or is it just bad technique.
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SVstar34

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 10:12:31 AM »
The wrong weight can cause bad habits, it's definitely possible
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 12:18:19 PM »
Unless you recently switched ball weights it is bad technique.
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BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 02:35:59 PM »

One thing I've learned when it comes to bowling: YOUNEVERKNOW.
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scrub49

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2016, 08:02:56 AM »
Recently switched ball weight from 16 to 15.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2016, 08:32:14 AM »
For a lot of people going lighter they manipulate and try to "help" it because 1. they think they need to and 2. they can, because a lighter ball is easier to handle.
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bergman

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2016, 11:34:18 AM »
A lot of very good replies to this issue. I subscribe to "heavier is better", especially for stroker-type deliveries . I own both, 15 & 16 # balls and my experience has been that the 16 pound ball gives me better "carry" than does the 15 # ball. It also  gives me a wider pocket to shoot at and is far better
on longer, tighter conditions. In general, I encourage my students to select the heaviest  ball weight that they can physically handle and one that does not impede their
ability to execute with good repetitition and timing. Also, for bowlers who rely largely on a gravity-fed swing, a lighter ball WILL NOT increase ball velocity (contrary to popular belief).

 

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scrub49

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2016, 09:16:25 AM »
Everything you said ( bergman ) is spot on just two months ago shot 760 series with 16 but pain in my legs and calves really sore  so i'm trying to go down with weight.
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ICDeadMoney

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2016, 05:23:09 PM »
Quote from: bergman on October 29, 2016, 11:34:18 AM
A lot of very good replies to this issue. I subscribe to "heavier is better", especially for stroker-type deliveries . I own both, 15 & 16 # balls and my experience has been that the 16 pound ball gives me better "carry" than does the 15 # ball. It also  gives me a wider pocket to shoot at and is far better
on longer, tighter conditions. In general, I encourage my students to select the heaviest  ball weight that they can physically handle and one that does not impede their
ability to execute with good repetitition and timing. Also, for bowlers who rely largely on a gravity-fed swing, a lighter ball WILL NOT increase ball velocity (contrary to popular belief).

 

Ball speed comes mainly from the legs, so on average, a lighter ball will increase velocity.

The big difference is it takes more energy to throw a 15 lbs ball 16 mph, than it does to throw a 16 lbs ball 15 mph.

K = 0.5 * lbs * mph^2

You're better off throwing a 16 lbs ball 15.5 mph since it requires approximately the same energy to do so. 

Where you gain is in momentum.

P = lbs * mph

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bergman

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2016, 11:35:18 PM »
Actually, the majority of a ball's speed comes from the height of the initial placement of the ball in the stance (which represents the ball's amount of potential energy) which of course, most of which gets converted to kinetic energy on the downswing. This, combined with the
direction of the ball's trajectory at release , are by far the biggest factors affecting ball speed that is generated by the bowler. The forward motion of the legs do contribute to the overall velocity but alone, they represent only a small portion of the ball's forward speed. This subject has long been a topic of discussion. In fact, there was a great article
in the Nov 12, 2009 BTM debating this very question. Several well respected instructors
as well as  a few bowlers had varied opinions. I had to concur with Bill Hall, who was one of the interviewees for this article when he stated that going to a lighter ball does not increase ball speed.   I have yet to see a lighter ball, when propelled solely by a gravity-fed swing, result in an increase in ball speed. It confirms the
actual "physics" that is in play.

The important factor in this entire discussion is that we are talking strictly about a ball that is being thrown solely via the force of gravity. Any force that a bowler
applies negates all of the above.   
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ICDeadMoney

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Re: Timing Question and Ball Weight
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2016, 03:15:54 PM »
Quote from: bergman on November 02, 2016, 11:35:18 PM
Actually, the majority of a ball's speed comes from the height of the initial placement of the ball in the stance (which represents the ball's amount of potential energy) which of course, most of which gets converted to kinetic energy on the downswing. This, combined with the
direction of the ball's trajectory at release , are by far the biggest factors affecting ball speed that is generated by the bowler. The forward motion of the legs do contribute to the overall velocity but alone, they represent only a small portion of the ball's forward speed.

I suspect you're incorrectly assigning a value of height to the initial placement.

If you start the ball at shoulder level, say 5', that potential energy is fully converted to kinetic energy in the forward direction only if you have a 5' or longer arm.

Most people have an arm length closer to 2.25', so starting the ball at 5' only converts 2.25' feet worth of potential energy into kinetic energy in the forward direction, and since the ball is released 2.75' off the ground, gravity will convert the remaining potential energy into kinetic energy in the downward direction.

From stance to release, your shoulder is both moving in the forward direction, and well as lowering towards the floor, which makes the pendulum math fairly ugly.

When you do a one step drill and release the ball, you get a sense of how much speed comes from the legs, since the ball is traveling so much slower.
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