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Author Topic: USBC rule on sandbagging?  (Read 26908 times)

shipper50

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USBC rule on sandbagging?
« on: November 16, 2012, 07:34:12 AM »
You guys are more up to date on the rule book than I am and I tried to look it up in the on line rules.

Is there anywhere in the rules that states a member is sandbagging when he bowls and has established an average well below his known capability's?

I thought the USBC came out with a rule this past year stating someone who has an average that is below his known capability can be re-rated in tournaments.

This is in regards to a Gary Arnett who bowls in Indiana and is known to be one of the biggest sandbaggers to ever bowl in Indiana.
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Nails

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 10:50:40 AM »
I don't know of any new rule, but it has always been about intent - bowling below your ability to gain a later advantage.  It's always been hard to prove and even harder to get it enforced.

Your biggest problem is that it is up to each individual tournament director to decide whether or not to re rate.  Even when it's obvious, few tournaments do it.  I've heard the excuse "I don't want to lose bowler X" even when told that 10 bowlers won't bowl if he does.  I've always been an advocate of a national database of tournament scores/averages/cashes to go along with the USBC's average.  It would help root out the guys who average 177 for 18 games in 5 leagues every year, who just happen to finish in the top 5 of every tournament they enter.
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gkess1213

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 12:28:24 PM »
USBC Rule 17a. Unfair Tactics
An individual can be charged with attempting to gain an unfair advantage in league or tournament play for the following reasons:
1. Directly or indirectly tampering with lanes, pins or bowling balls so they no longer meet USBC specifications.
2. Misrepresenting an average to gain a greater handicap, or qualify for a lower classification in an event.
3. Establishing an average below the player’s ability to gain an unfair advantage in handicap or classified competition.

USBC Rule 319c. Average Adjustments (Rerating)
The average of a bowler may be adjusted upward before participation in any event. If the assigned average is not accepted by the bowler, the entry fee shall be refunded.
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dR3w

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 12:28:48 PM »
In the old ABC Rules it was 17a:  According to Rule 17a, unfair tactics are defined as intentionally bowling under a person’s average to gain an advantage in League or tournament play. 

Also:


under rule 115A of the ABC rule book, a player may be dismissed from the league for one of the following reasons   

1. Conduct derogatory to the best interest of the league.
or
2. Any “deliberate” action which can be proven to be detrimental to the best interest of the league.
or
3.  Violation of any WIBC or ABC league rule.
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gkess1213

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 12:29:23 PM »
All of that said, good luck proving anything.  VERRRY difficult!
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dR3w

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 12:36:02 PM »
Quote from: gkess1213 on November 16, 2012, 12:29:23 PM
All of that said, good luck proving anything.  VERRRY difficult!

I went through this many years ago.  A guy in my league was bagging on purpose.  Bowling with his spare ball for the first 5-6 weeks of league.  Establishing a 160 average, when he carried over 200 the year before.  5 league book averages of 18 games in the solid 210-220 range, but an official league average in the 180s.

Everyone in the league was bitching and moaning about it.  i called him out.  Brought it to a league vote.  Pretty much proved everything a person could prove and the league voted to basically a tie.  The people who didn't vote him guilty felt that the punishment of kicking him out of the league was too strong, although they did believe he was cheating.  Including a few of the league officers who worked at the same company as him.  Also got no help from my local association who told me "They didn't want to make it look like they were ganging up on him". 

It really opened my eyes.  People talk the talk.  I stuck my neck out, and they left me dangling in the wind.

I hope you have better luck.
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milorafferty

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2012, 12:47:57 PM »
Your only defense is to not bowl the tournaments that let him do it. Or at least don't get into the brackets. The brackets is why tournaments let the idiots continue to do it. If you are running a tournament and the guy buys into 50-100 brackets, and you make $5 per bracket, then you can get nearsighted real quick.

We have a tournament series around here called MAMBO and they have a couple of guys who bowl pretty much every squad and load up on the brackets, side pots etc. Everyone knows who the cheaters are, but nothing is done. Needless to say, I don't bowl MAMBO any more.
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shipper50

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2012, 12:57:26 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I thought I read somewhere last year that the USBC was going to put in a new rule about someone that knowingly sandbags and could be re rated for tournament play.

If anyone takes the time to look up this guy you will see how he gets away with this year after year. I have seen him bowl one time in the past and knew instantly he was a bagger by the way he threw the ball.

Then a guy in league lastnight said this Arnett bowled a local tournament with a 185 average from lastyear and came in second with a 825 or so for 4 games with the low  game thrown out.

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triggerman

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 02:30:26 PM »
unfortunately guys like him see nothing wrong with what they do, its aveage managment to them.  I looked at his averages, even a lifetime average from usbc wouldnt have caught this guy, too many games in his low average league vs small number of games in his high average leagues
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shipper50

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 02:36:41 PM »
Did you notice how many years he had less than 21 games when his average would have been over 200? I was told he used to go to the Honkie till they re-rated him, but it took years and big money before they did it.
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Dogtown

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 03:02:42 PM »
You would think that if USBC can keep a database of all the league averages, how hard would it be to add tournament averages for sanctioned events.

Then tournament entry forms could have two columns, one for league average and one for tournament average. 

That would help eliminate some of the sandbagging. 
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Urethane Game

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 03:20:26 PM »
The best thing for bowling would be to eliminate handicap for brackets, side pots and tournaments.  Plastic trophy leagues would be exempt.
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Mighty Fish

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Re: USBC rule on sandbagging?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 06:08:06 PM »
The rules of almost any tournament give the tournament director the option of adjusting a bowler's average upward prior to bowling. Of course, if the tournament is USBC-certified, the bowler would have the right to appeal the decision.
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