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Author Topic: USBC Sanctioning Fee  (Read 8770 times)

storm making it rain

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USBC Sanctioning Fee
« on: March 15, 2010, 07:17:19 AM »
In recent posts people were upset about how much they pay for USBC sanctioning.  Most of the complaints were because of where the money goes, the lack of awards, etc.

Now my question to all of you that wish to respond is this...

What do you personally want from USBC for the $10 you pay for national sanctioning fees?

I would just like honest opinions to an honest question..

Thanks in advance!!

 

storm making it rain

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2010, 10:56:04 PM »
quote:
As far as the USBC goes on lane inspection, once you're lanes are inspected and certified you don't have to have them reinspected until you make any changes to your lanes. Lane inspections are also a thing of the past!


not entirely true bat.

the main inspection during the end of summer usually, is more for lanes, machines, pin spots, etc.  they do tape of course but for the most part the "certification" is to make sure your lane beds are in accordance.

and once again its a situation of your region, but our lanes do get spot inspections for lane tapes by our local association.  not often but it happens 2-3 times per year.

J_w73

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2010, 12:23:12 AM »
quote:
So?  I lifted it off Cgsucks' sig.  You really are grasping at straws, aren't you?  

Tell you what, die grinder.  Start a thread saying you believe different colors hook more than others.  See how many agree with you.

Now quit hijacking threads, die grinder.  You haven't offered one original thought to the subject of the post.  Beat it!


Not sure who is on what side of this fight but different colored pigments DO effect how a ball hooks..

check out this thread.. not sure if it is all entirely accurate but it seems to have some very good and valid information

http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/showthread.php?t=34294
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

trash heap

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2010, 04:48:12 PM »
quote:
I stand corrected.


Was that hard for you to type
Talkin' Trash!

Steven

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2010, 05:54:42 PM »
quote:
you should take your own advice and "comprehend" part of my last post (2nd quote) and keep your personal vendetta's against whoever you think this guy is.  


bowler25: Thanks for the information on prize funds. In the many leagues at many houses I've bowled in over the years, I've never seen the arrangement you described, but clearly it exists.

You've talked about league bonding and other financial rewards (hotel, car rental, meals) where the USBC can provide value. That's all well and good. But if that's what the USBC does best, we're in serious trouble. Perform your mission statement well before branching into less significant and/or unrelated areas.

Again, I want the USBC to do one thing and do it well -- bring effective governance to league bowling for credibility as a sport. That's where the most value can be achieved. The rest is a smoke screen.  

As far as your 'second' quote, it's all part of the BR experience, so get used to it. This is no place for the thin skinned and timid.  

Thank YOU and have a nice day.

Rileybowler

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2010, 06:51:59 PM »
quote:
quote:
you should take your own advice and "comprehend" part of my last post (2nd quote) and keep your personal vendetta''s against whoever you think this guy is.  


bowler25: Thanks for the information on prize funds. In the many leagues at many houses I''ve bowled in over the years, I''ve never seen the arrangement you described, but clearly it exists.

You''ve talked about league bonding and other financial rewards (hotel, car rental, meals) where the USBC can provide value. That''s all well and good. But if that''s what the USBC does best, we''re in serious trouble. Perform your mission statement well before branching into less significant and/or unrelated areas.

Again, I want the USBC to do one thing and do it well -- bring effective governance to league bowling for credibility as a sport. That''s where the most value can be achieved. The rest is a smoke screen.  

As far as your ''second'' quote, it''s all part of the BR experience, so get used to it. This is no place for the thin skinned and timid.  

Thank YOU and have a nice day.

_________________________________________________________
Well stated and this should be what every sanctioned bowler desires from the USBC
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

Edited on 3/18/2010 9:05 PM
Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

txbowler

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2010, 07:34:24 PM »
If you are a mid average league bowler who never plans on bowling any tournament of any kind, your dues probably does not provide you anything you can see or measure.

You may or may not win any awards and your league funds hopefully are safe.

But if the day comes when your league secretary decided to go live in Mexico and took $30,000 of your league funds with him/her.  You'll be thankful.


Steven

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2010, 10:30:30 AM »
quote:
Well stated and this should be what every sanctioned bowler desires from the USBC


Thanks Riley. What we need to see from our dues is something concrete that makes a difference. I hope there are a lot of others like you who see this.

 
quote:
isnt this the "The Truth".... your skin is as thick as your head....oh, hey steven, carry on with your shenanigans..


CGsSuK: Hey, settle down. You should be honored that CRD/LM4M used your pre-school sig line for a weak attempt at a response. BTW, what has the USBC done for you lately?

wooddaddy

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2010, 10:42:25 AM »
substitute "taxes" for "dues" and "government" for "usbc" and you'd have a more interesting thread

Steven

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2010, 09:27:31 PM »
quote:
Wow, what a tag team duo, Stevie and The Fraud. Two of the biggest non-respect earning posters on here. One thinks he knows everything but when proved wrong by countless others, he goes turtle and bails on the thread. The other is a glorified bench hand who NEVER contributes anything bowling knowledge-wise to a post, just stalks me as Stevens imaginary friend. Pathetic.


Wow. More noise from a loser who had to change his name from CRD to letsbow4money because of BR banishment. I've never been proved wrong by the troll contingent, and never bailed on a thread that wasn't already troll infested. Prove otherwise. Of course, you can't.

"The Truth" stands on his own. There is no tag team, other than the guy has you pegged. He's drawn to you like flies on crap, only I'm guessing he doesn't enjoy it. If more poster like "The Truth" would challenge your moronic presence, you'd fade away like a bad cold. Maybe with time.

BTW, you never explained why you have to bowl in houses where you can't trust the management to ethically manage league fee money. Are your only real choices certified fleabag establishments?

Atochabsh

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2010, 06:45:26 AM »
Quote
And what does the State and local do that the National does not?[/quote[

I'm not going to speak to state because I'd like to see an audit of that myself.

But local takes care of all the lane and center certification themselves.  USBC pays absolutely nothing for lane and center certification. Local has to buy the equipment at a huge cost from USBC in order to do this job and provide the workers.  Local also sponsers all your city tournaments.  USBC central office contributes NOTHING to your local city tournaments.  Not workers, not prize fund, not flyers, not raffle prizes, not data entry, not prize distribution.  Local also distributes USBC achievement awards.  Whether this is by US mail or carrier by local directors.  Local pays for that (up until a couple years ago, our US mailing costs per year was over $5000).  Local also provides all your average verification letters.  Though some of that is spreading out to bowl.com if you can use the site.  Local is supposed to track all your sandbaggers and hopefully rerate them as needed.   Local also provides your yearly book averages (USBC pays nothing for that) and the processing it takes to create the average book (no USBC kickback for creating the average book or data base).  It costs us about $2000/yr to create an Official Average Book.  If your association is big enough, then you have an office location and rent, plus staff and wages.  

Erin

Atochabsh

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2010, 06:50:19 AM »
quote:
not all leagues hold their money at the center. we offer "prize fund" accounts to all of our leagues as a service to them. out of all of our leagues (more than 20) only 6 use this service.


This is another thing that local associations offer.  We too  offer banking through us.  We used to gain a minimal interest that we put into a yearly scholarship fund.  But of course now banks don't really give interest for savings accounts now a days.  But we provide banking through a major mega bank that is usable all over the city/country.  Out of 200 leagues about 25 use this.  But we have to balance 25 additional accounts monthly and send out statements to the league president and league treasurer.  That's labor and mailing costs that local does.  


Atochabsh

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2010, 06:54:08 AM »
quote:
Our association is about to ask for and increase from $8 to figure the $10. If they can not explain why and where it will be used I might vote no, but give me a honest answer and they have my approval.


How long has it been at that rate?  That's really important!  

We have not raised local dues in over 5 years.  But the economy has gone up, the price of a US stamp has gone up, office rent has gone up, insurance has gone up, taxes has gone up and minimal wages have gone up (well not in our case).  Most associations have to pay for internet service, phone service, fax service, electric, utilities, trash pick up.  All that has gone up.

Atochabsh

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2010, 06:58:00 AM »
quote:
As far as the USBC goes on lane inspection, once you're lanes are inspected and certified you don't have to have them reinspected until you make any changes to your lanes.


This is not true!!

USBC centers must be certified yearly.  There are additional inspections due if you replace your lanes, or a new center is opened.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2010, 08:44:31 AM »
Atochabsh, thanks for that info on what locals do.

It seems we get more bang for the buck from Local than we do from National, although we did gain a nice new building in a warmer state now, and a newer website that is easier to use.


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Tex

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Re: USBC Sanctioning Fee
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2010, 10:15:51 AM »
There seems to be a lot of back and forth on this. Amazing to me that people get this worked up over 18 to 20 dollars. I was a local association director for many years and only opted out due to other endeavors that were taking too much of my time.

I operate a tournament promotions company as one of my side jobs and I can tell you if you aren't USBC sanction you won't bowl in my events and without a certified average you would be scratch. That said, tournaments only affect a very small part of those who bowl. Now before someone says tournaments are mostly for high average bowlers I would guess that less than 40% of our bowlers have a 200 average and maybe 20% enter in our optional scratch side events. There has to be some way of documenting averages even though we all know not every average is a true representation of a bowlers capabilities.

On the bonding. I know way too many centers that have misappropriated a leagues funds. I would believe that none of these began the year believing that at the end they would be unable to pay the leagues money or awards back, but due to running short of money that is what happened. On the other side are centers like ours that no longer offer that option, just too dangerous. We had one of the better centers in our area (not our center) last year had one of the better high average leagues have their entire prize fund stolen by the league secretaries boyfriend. Yep, he got in and emptied the account. After filing for the bonding the bowlers eventually got paid, the president and secretary were suspended and after almost a year so was the boyfriend. Point is when dealing with money, it happens and way too often. USBC is able to give us the option of at least getting the bowlers their money and then go after the theives. I think this league was 20K or more in prize funds or so the rumors, but how many $10 fees did it take to cover that league or how much was the insurance to cover all of our leagues if this happened.

Inspection of the lanes occur once a year and is performed by the local association, that is where part of your local fees go. They also inspect for honor scores though not as often as in the past. In too many associations they notify the centers that the inspection will be given on a given day and time, a violation of rules, but that is what happens. The inspectors at least get mileage for the travel or used to anyway and there are materials involved. All of our locals also provide trinkets for some awards that national does not provide. Ours has an office and secretary, so there are expenses and salaries envolved. How many salaries are envolved at the national office in Arington and what is the rent on that facility. Yes the national sets the rules with the help of the local assocations that use their money to travel to the convention, that convention is also paid for by national. SO, the bowlers don't get a dime of any of that money so why should they have to pay for it. Those are parts of doing business and this business is bowling. It is a business for all of the centers and is for  USBC and really the local too. You can not support the business without money and that money comes from dues. They are a membership organization and thus are totally dependent on our support in the form of dues. Yea they have gone out and tried to bring in extra money with advertising but how much would you pay for an add in our membership magazine or annual mailing of your card.

Most of the awards don't mean alot to me anymore I have been in this too long. I just want another 300 ring and to finally get an  800. At least USBC is there if and when those finally happen or I hope they will be.

On non-sanctioned leagues and tournaments. What are you going to do if a bowler is violating a rule? Oh, I know you are going to go to the USBC rule book and show them they can't do that. Hold on, you are not sanctioned. IF I want to walk down the lane to the pins and knock them down it is not outside the rules, is it? Foul lights don't count do they, I mean that is not written in your league rules is it. Can't use the rule book you decided not to use those rules when you went non-certified. Who you going to call to resolve your heated dispute over that guy sanding his ball. Not the local association. Open play is for non-sanction bowling and leagues/tournaments should always be sanctioned. Sorry,but if you want to bowl under our rules then pay the fees. I bet you will spend more than $10 or $20 dollars next week on beer,brackets,card games and maybe even your weekly league fees.

Nice soap box to get on. How many sports charge such a small fee and provide any part of what USBC does, though that is getting smaller. How many out there have joined the golfing organizations. What do you get?