Author Topic: when was the hitting up a bad idea? (Read 8671 times)

xrayjay · « **on:** January 20, 2017, 03:59:34 AM »

I just watch a 1990 quality inn event and Dick Weber was talking about PBIII release. And mentioned that hitting up or "up lifting" the ball would create erratic reaction or hook to early.

I know some long time cats that still "hit up" on the ball on purpose. Not always, but it's part of their game. Is it part of yours?

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2017, 06:46:08 AM »

As far as I remember, hitting "up" on the ball was always a bad idea.
I really can't recall Parker ever doing that.

FYI By hitting up on the ball, I mean the ball goes higher up in the air, than it is at the release point. This is completely different from lofting the ball, which is not allowing the ball to hit the lane immediately. In that case the ball is going forward, not up. It is a device to delay the hook and/or to help clear hooking heads.

Most people have some "loft", be it 6" or 2'. Most people do not lay the ball on the ground like Larry Laub, Dave Davis or Dickinson.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2017, 09:03:57 AM »

Hitting up on the ball is (in my mind) when people are using excessive muscle at the very end of their release (upward) in an effort to create revs.

At the very least it's difficult to repeat the same shot after shot, which is a problem for bowling at the higher levels. If the lanes are drier it can cause early hook and consistency problems with ball path as well as carry.

Lastly, I've seen guys injure their fingers, wrists and other areas that don't heal fast during the bowling season with that practice.

In today's game the best bowlers are great at repeating what they do. On the easiest of all conditions guys will get by doing it, but not on the flatter, more demanding patterns. Hitting up on the ball is the anti-repeating-motion in my opinion...

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2017, 10:02:47 AM »

Quote from: xrayjay on January 20, 2017, 03:59:34 AM

I just watch a 1990 quality inn event and Dick Weber was talking about PBIII release. And mentioned that hitting up or "up lifting" the ball would create erratic reaction or hook to early.

I know some long time cats that still "hit up" on the ball on purpose. Not always, but it's part of their game. Is it part of yours?

Hitting Up or putting lift on a ball was the thing to do during the rubber and plastic ball era (and early urethane) when they were having to make the balls hook.

But it fell out of favor when resin balls appeared, because of the reasons you stated. Resin balls didn't need the extra "help" from putting lift on the ball.

To see more about lift back in the day look at this old (1988) video at the 35 min. mark he tells about the different kinds of lift.:

Don Johnson's A Pro's Guide to Better Bowling Vol 2

Don Johnson's A Pro's Guide to Better Bowling Vol 2

This is a great old video from back in 1988. A lot of thing's have changed, but still some thing's of interest to be learned.

The way he showed how the locate the PAP was the first way I learned how to do it. No Armadillo, Prosect or spinner etc. needed just a grease pencil and $1 flexible tape measure.

xrayjay · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2017, 11:00:59 AM »

DW was saying how clean PBIII release was, no hitting up.

I remember my youth coach telling us to reach for the ceiling lol. And just like the video, she taught us to have a firm wrist and feel the weight of the ball on our fingers. Likewise, she recommended that we all have a wrist brace lol (85'-88')

avabob · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2017, 12:01:32 PM »

It is a very good question. Basically hitting up on the ball means applying revs with the fingers as the upswing starts. Hitting up was an effective release during the plastic ball era. The best example was Roth. His grip it and rip it style allowed him to dominate the game during the late 70s.

It was really during the 80s that the new breed of power players learned to uncup their wrists to help lengthen the flat spot at the bottom of their swing and create high rev rates without lifting up on the ball. You could get more revs on the ball because you weren't fighting gravity by lifting up on the ball. Great example is Wayne Webb in his early days. He finished his swing open handed despite using a cupped wrist in his bsck swing. Many of us strokers never learned this technique during the 80s. When we tried to cup our wrists we still grabbed and hit up on the ball. Ironically the introduction of resin initially masked the problem. The higher friction resin allowed us to create power and entry angle without cupping our wrists. However the higher friction also promoted the need for more ball speed to mesh with the higher rev rates. The need for ball speed again made the urethane release duscussed above more effective because the ball could clear the fingers at the bottom where arm swing speed was at the maximum.

Many people use the term less is more under the mistaken assumption that the modern balls hit too hard. In actuality reving the ball at the bottom is simply a more efficient way to create power in terms of revs. Therefore it feels like we are doing less to the ball, when we are simply allowing gravity to help create revs and speed rather than fighting gravity by trying to create power on the upswing.

itsallaboutme · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2017, 12:49:50 PM »

Hitting up has worked out pretty well for a dude named Walter.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2017, 12:57:49 PM »

Quote from: itsallaboutme on January 20, 2017, 12:49:50 PM

Hitting up has worked out pretty well for a dude named Walter.

There are always exceptions. I just watch the average league bowler who misses all over the place because he's trying to increase his rev rate.

xrayjay · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2017, 01:13:14 PM »

Quote from: notclay on January 20, 2017, 12:57:49 PM

Quote from: itsallaboutme on January 20, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
Hitting up has worked out pretty well for a dude named Walter.

There are always exceptions. I just watch the average league bowler who misses all over the place because he's trying to increase his rev rate.

i was going to add his name into the mix earlier lol.... A rare dude in bowling...

avabob · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2017, 01:58:24 PM »

WRW is the exception because he has been able to generate a lot of ball speed and still stay behind the ball while hitting up.
Hitting up is a very inefficient way to create high revs. When I was finally able to learn the so called urethsne release and stop hitting up I increased my rev rate from 225 to 300.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2017, 03:06:28 PM »

The key to more revs is getting the thumb out earlier than the fingers. The best bowlers do this with a RELAXED hand and grip, the opposite that many people do when trying to increase revs.
Proper ball fit is also crucial so the bowler can use less grip pressure instead of more.

avabob · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2017, 03:35:45 PM »

That is one thing that has never changed. Even in the old polyester era squeezing the ball was slmost an automatic corner pin. It costs you revs whether hitting up on the ball or releasing at the bottom.

bergman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2017, 12:32:38 AM »

Years ago, I had taken a couple of lessons from John Jowdy. John was very big on
getting bowlers into the habit of creating that flat spot with the hand at release.
He said that he taught this even back in the days of the rubber/plastic ball era. He said that the great Earl Anthony was one of the few top pros in those days that purposely
worked on creating this motion for himself. In fact, Earl once commented that when he released the ball he would try to imagine that his bowling arm could unfold (telescopically) so that when the ball got to the breakpoint, he tried to envision his (bowling) hand still
on the ball (and not above it). He referred to it as "chasing the ball downlane with the hand". This prevented him from hitting up on the ball.

However hitting "up" and squeezing are 2 different things. Squeezing at release was (and is) usually very counterproductive to getting a consistent release and maximizing carry. However, releasing the ball on a slight upswing is usually
beneficial for bowlers who still deploy the older style release----- where the bowling hand
releases more from the side of the ball (versus from under it). By releasing it on the downswing (where the thumb exits next to the slide ankle), the ball's rotational axis
tends more towards the vertical . This will usually cause such a release to be ineffective, versus releasing it on the slight upswing. By releasing it in this fashion,
the ball will have axis tilt, but not to the extreme degree as is is when released on the downswing, at the ankle. This results in better pin carry for these "side-ballers".
This type of release is still common among bowlers who learned the game 40+ years ago. When I instruct bowlers in this category, I often find that the easiest way to get
them to release on the upswing is by keeping the shoulders behind the slide knee to a degree. Too much forward shoulder lean makes it much more difficult to accomplish
without the bowler wanting to squeeze the ball at release.

For the more contemporary release (where the wrist collapses), it is usually more advantageous to do precisely the opposite, more forward shoulder lean allows such bowlers to more easily move their finger through a larger arc (circumference) of the ball at release with less axis tilt.

Author Topic: when was the hitting up a bad idea? (Read 8671 times)

xrayjay

when was the hitting up a bad idea?

charlest

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Aloarjr810

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xrayjay

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avabob

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itsallaboutme

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xrayjay

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avabob

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