Author Topic: What happened to Mo-Rich? (Read 60009 times)

Juggernaut · « **on:** November 21, 2010, 04:00:48 AM »

Just a couple of years or so ago, it seemed that Mo-Rich was climbing the ladder. They had lots of good stuff with lots of innovation, and one of the brightest designers in the industry.

Then, for whatever reason, things have seemed to cool WAY down. There aren't that many who still talk about them much here, and very little buzz seems to exist as to whether they are coming out with new stuff or not.

They just came out with the Perpetual Motion, and it seemed to be mentioned here almost as an afterthought.

Does anyone here know?
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Good transactions list in my profile

jls · « **Reply #61 on:** September 17, 2012, 02:37:15 PM »

Quote from: Impending Doom on September 17, 2012, 12:07:42 PM

You don't have to spend however many hours that jls stated on a customer to make them feel like they're getting a good deal. I used to spend an hour with the customer the first time, take them on the lane, let them warm up while i did something else in the shop, watch what their equipment was doing, discuss what they wanted, go back in the shop, pick a ball, choose a layout, and away we went. In that hours, I got his pap, showed that he was important to me as a customer, got a good read on what the guy wanted, and lined him up with the best ball I could recommend.

After that, I didn't have to spend all that much time with them when they wanted something else. It went something like this. "Ball A you drilled me is great, but I want something else, to fill a hole in my bag." How about Ball B? "If you think that's the best choice, put holes in it."

Customers deserve your time. Now, if you work in a standalone shop, you're limited. Nice part is you don't have to worry about the center, but the bad part is that you don't have to worry about the center. It's a double edged sword.

Customer's deserve enough time to get the job done right...

Just because some shops may prefer to use Storm's layouts or Ebonite's layouts does
not mean they are not taking enough time with the customer's...

So MANY times on this site we see some basement ball driller saying things like...

"if your guy doesn't take you out on the lanes" "If your guy doesn't find your PAP"
If your guy doesn't fit and drill your ball with inserts, slugs and a free lunch"
etc etc etc...

What these basement ball drillers are doing is telling the keyboard Pounders that
they are getting screwed by pro shop..."my guy drills me a new ball for $25 with slugs and inserts and he watches me bowl 6 games"etc etc etc...

And then when they go to a pro shop and the charge may be $40-$50 to drill a ball...

They feel cheated...

Now what Doom said is pretty accurate...The new customer will indeed take more
time to pick out a ball, lay it out and adjust...45 minutes to an hour may be what
it requires...What may take the longest time is making sure you give the customer
the right ball for the condition...Once a customer realizes that you want to be
sure you sold him the right ball, you will gain his trust...

And that is how some pro shops manage to stay in business...

It's called "word of mouth"...

jls · « **Reply #62 on:** September 17, 2012, 02:46:38 PM »

Quote from: kidlost2000 on September 15, 2012, 05:26:29 PM

JLS QUOTES:

Most pro shops simply Don't have the time to spend an hour laying out and drilling a ball...<<<THIS IS TRUE... the whole process of
helping the customer pick out an ball, fitted them, laying it out, telling them
how you are laying it out and why, drilling the ball and adjusting it, should take
about 45 minutes to an hour...

Not in today's ECONOMY...VERY TRUE...

You can fit them and properly lay out a ball for them in less time...YES

Many drillers I have talked too all said pretty much the same thing...
Morich makes it way to complicated...
and that is why so MANY shops stop carrying them...YES THIS IS WHAT I HAVE HEARD AND SEEN...

Not putting words in your mouth but what you said seems to be that dual angle is basically overkill and that apparently people stopped carrying Morich balls because of the drill instructions that are included in the box being too complicated???<<<AGAIN THIS MAY BE TRUE...FOR SOME SHOPS, NOT ALL...

You also said that taking an hour to layout and drill a ball is too long. YES... YOUR REPEATING YOURSELF

So how long does it take you to layout and drill said ball for someone? You should be able to discuss what condition they need a ball for, fit them and lay it out and drill in about 45 minutes to 1 Hour...

I'm not suggesting nor reading on here anyone saying take 3 plus hours to layout and drill a ball. Literally an extra 5-10 minutes if you don't know a bowlers style or pap on top of your normal drill time is very little to ask. NO NOT LAYING OUT... WATCHING THEM BOWL FOR A HALF HOUR BEFORE AND MAYBE A HALF HOUR AFTERWARDS...
AND ALL OF THIS FOR $25...

Since I drill for me and me only and get great service every time I guess I am giving brick and mortar shops a bad name. At least I know I will get what I want and have it done right. I still get all the great EBI packs when need for resale in case your wondering. I don't discourage anyone from buying at their local shop. If you dont like their service you should go elsewhere. The biggest mark up in any business is in accessories not the main product. If you can get a better deal online I say go for it. YET YOU ARE NOT A PRO SHOP...

EBI also has a great product you should love for laying out bowling balls in their Blueprint program. It is all that overkill you love from your favorite pro brick and mortar company.

I would never own a proshop or any business in this economy and salute those who do. To suggest the consumer doesn't deserve the extra time when needed is absurd and you are the one making your business look bad by saying as much. Apply that to any other business you go to and see if you would continue giving them your service if they said: no one suggested that... but WATCHING SOMEONE BOWL FOR HOURS IS A BIT OUT OF LINE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HEAR, "MY GUY CHARGES $25"

"sorry we could have done it better with an extra 5-10 minutes but we chose not to."

THIS IS JUST PLAIN SILLY...

Bottom line, leading people to believe that they can only get a good FIT is
by having someone spend hours watching you bowl is out of line...

That's called LESSONS...

Buying a ball and Lessons are two separate things...

And feeding their heads with "my guy drills for $25, and that includes slugs
and inserts and lunch" YA RIGHT... Makes real
pro shops look bad...If we don't serve lunch...

Now can you tell all of us JUST HOW YOU ARE ABLE TO GET ALL THOSE SAMPLE PACKS FROM EBONITE, EVEN THO YOU ARE NOT A PRO SHOP...
Now Kid, we have been thru this before...You are ANTI PRO SHOP...

Now I'm done talking with you...

But sure glad to see people posting again on this site...

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #63 on:** September 17, 2012, 05:09:45 PM »

We assume too much that isn't written. I'm by no means anti proshop as stated before. I recommend my local shop to anyone that asks me about buying equipment. It has a great owner who charges good prices and has some good drillers. Also has some I would avoid.

I think a proshop should make what ever profit they can make when selling their equipment. Not $25 a ball or less. I also agree with the EBI vid that when your drilling a bowling ball for someone you should use their pap to layout the ball, if it is dual angle, storms method or what ever. Too many shops simply go with the pin up or pin down from the ring finger method for everything they drill and assume it will be roughly 4-5.5" from the bowlers pap and that should be good enough for every bowler.

I disagree with that and would expect more if it was me buying a ball from them. So I will stay with what I said originally, that an extra 5-10 minutes to find a bowlers pap and watch them bowl prior to drilling is not asking too much. If you have their information already on file, then you've done your job and it wouldn't be necessary.

I only enjoy telling you about those great EBI packs or seed balls because of how much you bragged on EBI for going after internet dealers and for standing up for brick and mortar shops and not selling to just anyone. When like everyone else a sale is a sale and they will whore their products to anyone that will buy. Which is why they are back at all internet sites and still selling to non brick and mortar shops. I only bought one of the packs this time around from Track because it was the only one worth selling.

HankScorpio · « **Reply #64 on:** September 18, 2012, 03:45:02 PM »

Why exactly does MoRich make it too complicated to use thier equipment? You can use any layout system you want to drill the balls, and you can use their system to drill balls for any company. Sure, the ball may be a dud if its drilled wrong, but that is true for literally every ball on the market.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #65 on:** September 18, 2012, 04:17:44 PM »

I think if you take the time to read over the dual angle method or watch a video of the the method being used you will see it is much easier then it appears. If you look at the charts listed with the angles it will tell you the general shape and reaction of the ball by using the different degree angles.

So when laying out a ball you have an angle, then you measure what distance you want the pin to be from your pap, then you have another angle and that is it. The chart shows you generally what effect the bigger or smaller the first angle effect will have, along with the pin to pap distance, then the effects of the bigger or smaller second angle.

Rightycomplex · « **Reply #66 on:** September 18, 2012, 06:00:18 PM »

Lol! Its a little more involved than that kid but thats the basics. The advantage is that the driller can design the shape of the ball unique to the bowler. Also, the driller can map out the look from one bowler to the next.

Ex.
Bowler A comes in and likes the look of bowler B's ball and wants the same layout. The driller can duplicate the layout in relevance to the bowlers PAP's and give them the same reaction look on the lanes.

The big thing to remember is that ex. a 60x4x30 layout will look different from bowler to bowler. For bowler A,it might put the pin above the bridge whereas bowler B's might end up 1" to the right or left of ring finger. Its relevant to the bowlers PAP.

Now I will agree with JLS on one thing, not having to use the dual angle method for all bowlers. New bowlers( meaning conventional gripped) or people just looking to have fun, the driller will not really have to use the dual angle method for the simple fact that they are just looking to throw balls and performance is not really a priority. Now when they come in and ask about getting more performance out of a ball because they are ready for more performance, then that is when the driller takes the extra 5 mins to map out stats, maybe see a ball or two and then it 5 mins to layout and drill. Will you always have a boatload of time, No. But thats when you as a businessman or woman have to gauge the situation and maybe have some prioritizing.

Morich is not making it difficult or complicated to drill their balls, they're giving the driller a way to maximize the potential of their equipment. The same as storms system and ebonite with the one.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #67 on:** September 18, 2012, 06:26:13 PM »

The basics are what is needed to get started, especially if someone doesn't understand the steps needed to do so. Yes you can also give the same layout from one bowler to the next based on their PAP that will give each bowler the same general shape.

I also really prefer it for me when I want to drill a few different bowling balls on the exact same pattern I can and know it will be precise.

Rightycomplex · « **Reply #68 on:** September 18, 2012, 08:48:09 PM »

I agree with you kid, but i think your simplifing things a tad. There is extra math that factors in. As a driller, determining drill sum in correlation to bowlers stats, as well as drill ratio, and weight hole placement (if wanted) all factor in for bowlers. The basics are nice but we have to be sure that we are paying attention to bowler and not just the generics and we also need more than the basics to properly layout a ball.
For ex. 60x4x30 could be a benchmark layout for a lower rev player with the average tilt and axis rotation, but it could be a strong layout for someone high revved and low tilted. As well as be a control layout for someone with a high tilt and larger axis rotation. So we have to be careful in what we determine to go into a ball.
Thats just one layout. For a low rev high tilt player, a driller would want the ball to start up sooner so they might go 30x4x60. Speed also plays a factor. We dont want to confuse who we are drilling for but at the same time, drillers dont want to cut corners. Remember it is a method that is unique to all bowlers.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #69 on:** September 18, 2012, 08:57:22 PM »

True, but if you tell that to someone who just stated they don't understand the dual angle layout system or why is it so complicated then you have not helped them. Most people give up after simply trying to layout the ball. They get one angle and the pin to pap distance and then start having problems.

HS: "Why exactly does MoRich make it too complicated to use thier equipment? You can use any layout system you want to drill the balls, and you can use their system to drill balls for any company. Sure, the ball may be a dud if its drilled wrong, but that is true for literally every ball on the market."

Bowl_Freak · « **Reply #70 on:** September 18, 2012, 09:16:59 PM »

Someone mentioned a chart on all this. Can u post a link to the chart. I need to really learn how to map stuff out correctly for my game instead of just slapping a drilling on them. IM to old school and need to refresh myself on updated cores/coverstocks and how they would work best for my game. I get lucky every once in a while.

Rightycomplex · « **Reply #71 on:** September 18, 2012, 09:29:04 PM »

Freak,

Check out bowlingchat.net. they have a wiki which has all this info and Mo Pinel frequents the site so he, John P, or MegaMav, along with others, should be able to answer any of your questions. Ill try to rummage throught and find the link to post.

Kid,
True, however thats why i said dont let the bowler know what you're doing. Lol! Try to simplify without oversimplification. If you oversimplified, then you they think they can do it too. Drilling and fitting balls are an acquired craft. If everyone could do it then they would need drillers. Kind of go through the explaination without getting too in depth.

Rightycomplex · « **Reply #72 on:** September 18, 2012, 09:36:57 PM »

Freak,

Here's the link to the wiki. All the information and more than youll ever need, lol!

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Proshop_Information#Dual_Angle_Layouts

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #73 on:** September 18, 2012, 10:48:22 PM »

I agree. I also think putting drilling instructions in the box was one of the worst things manufactures ever did.

Rightycomplex · « **Reply #74 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:10:26 PM »

Kid

Well, yes and no. Drill instructions give out a base and they are pretty generic so they fit most bowlers. The DA method expands upon it and gives a more fine-tune layout for that individual bowler and also exposes no-no's for drillers.
Back in the day, drill instructions were the thing and made drilling easy because most balls were symmetric and the driller could do 1 of 3 layouts and (in theory) it would work for everyone. Now we have alot more information and research, so drilling is a bit more involved. Without instructions, everyone who drilled an ebonite the one 3 3/8 stacked would have hated it. Lol!

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #75 on:** September 19, 2012, 03:41:27 AM »

Drill instructions in the box gave every Joe Blow the idea he wanted the ball drilled on the rev leverage pattern because it said max hook. Or some other pattern that didnt match the ball or bowler along with the condition they bowled. Then it was the ball or drillers fault because it didnt do what the drill sheet said it was suppose to.

Wow, imagine that. The Pearl Messenger drilled rev leverage on medium-heavy oil doesnt hook early??? I cant imagine why.

Drill instructions in the box was a bad idea. All companies at that time had nearly identical drill sheets with almost identical layouts. Todays drill sheets are really no different.

Author Topic: What happened to Mo-Rich? (Read 60009 times)

Juggernaut

What happened to Mo-Rich?

jls

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

jls

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

kidlost2000

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

HankScorpio

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

kidlost2000

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

Rightycomplex

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

kidlost2000

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

Rightycomplex

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

kidlost2000

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

Bowl_Freak

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

Rightycomplex

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

Rightycomplex

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

kidlost2000

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

Rightycomplex

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?

kidlost2000

Re: What happened to Mo-Rich?