Author Topic: It's NOT time... (Read 2392 times)

morpheus · « **on:** January 09, 2017, 04:00:33 PM »

Quote from: milorafferty on January 09, 2017, 01:10:40 PM

...for our yearly thread of "who is going and when do you bowl", the Open.

My teams are scheduled for July 5th and 6th. That is later than I wanted, but when trying to schedule a group I have to consider dates when everyone can make it.

And for those of you who feel then need to tell us all about how you will never bowl the Open (again) because USBC is just such an evil bunch of SOB's, it's been in Reno/Vegas too many times, the average system is unfair, etc. feel free to enjoy a heaping bowl of "I don't care what you think." so start your own damn thread on the topic.

miloraferty made a great suggestion, so here's a thread for folks tell us why you will never bowl the Open Championships again.

Steven · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2017, 08:03:00 PM »

Tens of thousands of bowlers participate in Nationals. You're probably not going to win an Eagle, but there is plenty of prize money to go around. You just have to bowl decent to get a chunk.

You'll never know how competitive you can be unless you try.

morpheus · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2017, 08:15:39 PM »

Glad you get so much value from your membership, most do not participate in tournaments to see value, but that's obviously the only focus of the USBC as membership has declined every year for decades.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2017, 08:50:56 PM »

I've never been to nationals, but I've always wanted to go. Ive just never had the disposable income to pay for it.

Even back when I was real good, my idea of going never included the idea of winning the thing, it was about competing.

Brackets are nice, but I don't get in those. For all those who do, great, good for you, but that isn't why I bowl.

I'm really not that good anymore. I have my moments, but the accuracy, ability, drive and endurance just aren't what they used to be. Not nearly good enough to be taken seriously.

But, I would still like to go, and someday I may get to.

And when I do, it will be an experience of a lifetime for me. The culmination of a dirty little dream I've had for over 30 years.

I won't be worried about the USBC, or how much they are making/losing off of me during all this. I'll be enjoying my vacation, and reveling in the fact that the event exists in the first place.

Snakster · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2017, 06:48:18 AM »

Quote from: Steven on January 09, 2017, 07:40:11 PM

It's really not that hard to make your money back (and more) simply by bowling plus in all events. I don't need to beat the best players on the planet to essentially bowl for free.

I bowl the USBC Senior Masters, so if I'm partially funding an event I bowl, all the better.

Like Milo said, this tournament isn't just about the money. For me, it isn't even the primary reason. If you're a real bowler, you want to test yourself. You want to know what your skill level really is. If you go up with an attitude of being scared to start with, you're better off staying home. Maybe you're being pragmatic.

I'll still think about you for that very brief moment.

I think I fall into this camp philosophically. Heck, on the odd occasion I'm able to play in a tournament locally, I know I'm going to be donating when I walk in the building. As such I don't do sidepots and the like. But I do enjoy competing against good players and playing on tougher patterns to get some experience. Now that I'm technically a senior (most of the time) it may even open new opportunities.

The reasons I have not gone to the Open yet (and won't again this year) are far more practical. I don't have a team to go with. It's too damn far and I'm not all that jazzed about having to fly across the country to do a bowling tournament.

I'm sure the venues in Vegas and Reno are top notch, but there are good facilities in the East as well. For them to only throw a bone to the eastern half of the country once a decade or so is very confusing to me. And when they do it's Syracuse? So yeah, for me it's strictly logistical. Syracuse is certainly a good possibility. Maybe in 2027 (or so) when it comes back east, they can pick some place like Brunswick Carolier in Jersey. I know the Masters has been there before. Place is huge.

Hoselrockets · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2017, 09:48:05 AM »

I will continue to bowl because I enjoy the tournament, do I agree with the changes? Some of them yes but others no. I will continue to go because I want to support bowling and If I quit then I feel I quit on bowling. Just my two cents.

Steven · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2017, 09:52:15 AM »

Quote from: morpheus on January 09, 2017, 08:15:39 PM

Glad you get so much value from your membership, most do not participate in tournaments to see value, but that's obviously the only focus of the USBC as membership has declined every year for decades.

We go round-and-round. My response is not going to make any difference to you but I'm going to say it anyway.

For a lousy 22 bucks a year, members get a centralized database for tracking historical averages and honor scores. They get guarantees for league prize funds. They get a common set of rules for all participants to abide by. Everyone should get value from these services, and these items alone are a bargain for 22 bucks.

If many bowlers do not want to take advantage of the value added services (national to local tournaments, bowler training and education, etc., fine. That's their choice. That's the nature of the bargain basket offering of any organization's services. You pick and choose. I don't care that I don't use everything the USBC has to offer. It's only 22 bucks......

As for the USBC clubbing non-bowlers on the head and dragging them in the door to force them to bowl leagues, that's never going to happen. Bowling unfriendly societal shifts are well in place. That horse has left the barn. Our owner of several local centers literally has several people who spend much their time smozzing at Chamber of Commerce and School Board meetings, and pitching bowling to the several summer camps youth organizations in the area. The army of adults and kids who do fun bowling are constantly pitched with all the league opportunities available. The collective centers offer significant financial incentives (free balls and shoes) to those who show interest. They are 1000% more effective than any magical USBC effort would be, yet it's still a difficult uphill climb. Your expectations are totally out of touch with reality.

So enjoy the moment and stop being a martyr. Go to a Nationals event and enjoy. There is nothing quite like looking across 80 lanes filled with bowlers while the national anthem is being played. You won't care if you don't make a dime. I promise.

milorafferty · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2017, 10:45:34 AM »

Quote from: Steven on January 10, 2017, 09:52:15 AM

Quote from: morpheus on January 09, 2017, 08:15:39 PM
Glad you get so much value from your membership, most do not participate in tournaments to see value, but that's obviously the only focus of the USBC as membership has declined every year for decades.

We go round-and-round. My response is not going to make any difference to you but I'm going to say it anyway.

For a lousy 22 bucks a year, members get a centralized database for tracking historical averages and honor scores. They get guarantees for league prize funds. They get a common set of rules for all participants to abide by. Everyone should get value from these services, and these items alone are a bargain for 22 bucks.

If many bowlers do not want to take advantage of the value added services (national to local tournaments, bowler training and education, etc., fine. That's their choice. That's the nature of the bargain basket offering of any organization's services. You pick and choose. I don't care that I don't use everything the USBC has to offer. It's only 22 bucks......

As for the USBC clubbing non-bowlers on the head and dragging them in the door to force them to bowl leagues, that's never going to happen. Bowling unfriendly societal shifts are well in place. That horse has left the barn. Our owner of several local centers literally has several people who spend much their time smozzing at Chamber of Commerce and School Board meetings, and pitching bowling to the several summer camps youth organizations in the area. The army of adults and kids who do fun bowling are constantly pitched with all the league opportunities available. The collective centers offer significant financial incentives (free balls and shoes) to those who show interest. They are 1000% more effective than any magical USBC effort would be, yet it's still a difficult uphill climb. Your expectations are totally out of touch with reality.

So enjoy the moment and stop being a martyr. Go to a Nationals event and enjoy. There is nothing quite like looking across 80 lanes filled with bowlers while the national anthem is being played. You won't care if you don't make a dime. I promise.

Exactly right Steven.

I make a serious effort each year to take bowlers who have never been to the Open before and have been doing this for several years. Every one of them has mentioned how much they enjoyed the experience.

It's not the money, it's the formality of the event. Everything from traveling to a new location, taking your equipment though the scales, the squad room with people getting various awards, the march out to the lanes etc. Most bowlers never experience this kind of environment anywhere else.

The Open is kind of like going to a really nice restaurant with a dress code. Is the food that much better? Usually not, it's more about the entire experience.

Luke Morningwood · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2017, 11:14:58 AM »

I'm sure the venues in Vegas and Reno are top notch, but there are good facilities in the East as well. For them to only throw a bone to the eastern half of the country once a decade or so is very confusing to me. And when they do it's Syracuse? So yeah, for me it's strictly logistical. Syracuse is certainly a good possibility. Maybe in 2027 (or so) when it comes back east, they can pick some place like Brunswick Carolier in Jersey. I know the Masters has been there before. Place is huge.
[/quote]

One of the biggest reasons that Nationals hasn't been back east is simply the amount of time (several months) that it takes to set up and run USBC nationals. I'm sure there are a lot of legit facilities and convention centers that have the room to accommodate nationals, but most of them book their time out several years in advance and they just don't have an open spot that big.

Since Reno, and now, Vegas have dedicated facilities targeted for hosting major events like nationals, they are getting guarantees for usage from USBC. I don't know of any discussions for facilities back east like that since the Orlando(?) area was sounding out the possibilities.
It is my guess that it is simply time and logistics that keep it from going back east more often.

milorafferty · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2017, 12:34:37 PM »

Quote from: Luke Morningwood on January 10, 2017, 11:14:58 AM

I'm sure the venues in Vegas and Reno are top notch, but there are good facilities in the East as well. For them to only throw a bone to the eastern half of the country once a decade or so is very confusing to me. And when they do it's Syracuse? So yeah, for me it's strictly logistical. Syracuse is certainly a good possibility. Maybe in 2027 (or so) when it comes back east, they can pick some place like Brunswick Carolier in Jersey. I know the Masters has been there before. Place is huge.

One of the biggest reasons that Nationals hasn't been back east is simply the amount of time (several months) that it takes to set up and run USBC nationals. I'm sure there are a lot of legit facilities and convention centers that have the room to accommodate nationals, but most of them book their time out several years in advance and they just don't have an open spot that big.

Since Reno, and now, Vegas have dedicated facilities targeted for hosting major events like nationals, they are getting guarantees for usage from USBC. I don't know of any discussions for facilities back east like that since the Orlando(?) area was sounding out the possibilities.
It is my guess that it is simply time and logistics that keep it from going back east more often.
[/quote]

USBC can't just have the Open where ever they choose. They have to have an open venue that is large enough and that will be available for 5 or 6 months. If the City of Orlando really wanted to have the Open, they have to make it happen and place a bid with USBC.

Steven · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2017, 12:51:06 PM »

Quote from: Luke Morningwood on January 10, 2017, 11:14:58 AM

And when they do it's Syracuse? So yeah, for me it's strictly logistical. Syracuse is certainly a good possibility.

Syracuse in late winter/early spring??

I love bowling in Nationals, but for this west coast guy, that just isn't appealing. The beauty of Las Vegas, and to a lesser degree Reno, is that there are cool things to do around the bowling. Worst case in Syracuse is not a happy situation. I'm going to have to think seriously about that one.

dmonroe814 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 10, 2017, 01:03:34 PM »

A few years ago, Orlando was building a stadium to be the east coast version of Reno, but funding fell through. Sure wish it would have worked. Would make travel a lot less expensive.

milorafferty · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2017, 01:18:36 PM »

Quote from: dmonroe814 on January 10, 2017, 01:03:34 PM

A few years ago, Orlando was building a stadium to be the east coast version of Reno, but funding fell through. Sure wish it would have worked. Would make travel a lot less expensive.

It would make it more expensive for me, but I would gladly go to Orlando for the Open. I'll be going to Syracuse next year, went to El Paso and Baton Rouge. I enjoy that aspect of the tournament.

I have to admit that if I didn't live so close to Reno, I might not be so enthusiastic about going back year after year.

Snakster · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2017, 01:28:15 PM »

Quote from: Steven on January 10, 2017, 12:51:06 PM

Quote from: Luke Morningwood on January 10, 2017, 11:14:58 AM

And when they do it's Syracuse? So yeah, for me it's strictly logistical. Syracuse is certainly a good possibility.

Syracuse in late winter/early spring??

I love bowling in Nationals, but for this west coast guy, that just isn't appealing. The beauty of Las Vegas, and to a lesser degree Reno, is that there are cool things to do around the bowling. Worst case in Syracuse is not a happy situation. I'm going to have to think seriously about that one.

For the record, I'm not touting Syracuse. Place is in the middle of nowhere. I've only ever driven through it and I'm a lesser person for it. However....it's good possibility for me to attend Nationals simply because I can drive there. And it's more likely I could piece together a group of four others to make the trip as well. Nevada not so much. most likely cost prohibitive. I have a hard enough time funding a family vacation; can't justify taking that budget so I can fly to Vegas and leave everyone else at home.

New plan:
1. Wait until powerball gets to half a billion.
2. Win it.
3. Build bowling stadium in Suburban Philadelphia
4. Find new excuse to not do things

Steven · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2017, 01:35:43 PM »

Quote from: Snakster on January 10, 2017, 01:28:15 PM

For the record, I'm not touting Syracuse. Place is in the middle of nowhere. I've only ever driven through it and I'm a lesser person for it. However....it's good possibility for me to attend Nationals simply because I can drive there. And it's more likely I could piece together a group of four others to make the trip as well. Nevada not so much. most likely cost prohibitive. I have a hard enough time funding a family vacation; can't justify taking that budget so I can fly to Vegas and leave everyone else at home.

New plan:
1. Wait until powerball gets to half a billion.
2. Win it.
3. Build bowling stadium in Suburban Philadelphia
4. Find new excuse to not do things

I get where you're coming from. Las Vegas is a little over a 4 hour drive for me, so I understand the whole being close thing. If I can hook up with a late June/early July date for Syracuse, that would be of interest. I haven't been to that part of the country, so there is value, even if it's in the middle of nowhere. I like exploring. But not when it's blanketed with cold and/or snow.

Snakster · « **Reply #30 on:** January 10, 2017, 02:05:29 PM »

Quote from: Steven on January 10, 2017, 01:35:43 PM

I get where you're coming from. Las Vegas is a little over a 4 hour drive for me, so I understand the whole being close thing. If I can hook up with a late June/early July date for Syracuse, that would be of interest. I haven't been to that part of the country, so there is value, even if it's in the middle of nowhere. I like exploring. But not when it's blanketed with cold and/or snow.

Wine country (fingerlakes) isn't too far away. And there are some decent microbreweries in NY. Not sure how close they are to Syracuse. My guess: not very.

Author Topic: It's NOT time... (Read 2392 times)

morpheus

It's NOT time...

Steven

Re: It's NOT time...

morpheus

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Juggernaut

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Snakster

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Hoselrockets

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Steven

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milorafferty

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Luke Morningwood

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milorafferty

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Steven

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dmonroe814

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milorafferty

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Snakster

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Steven

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Snakster

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