BallReviews
Equipment Boards => 900 Global => Topic started by: bowler231 on December 12, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
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I've owned the Ultimate Inferno years ago and both these ball use the same or very similar core even the core numbers are similar if not identical. Tell me, besides the covers how do these balls differ at all? Or is this just another recycled core rebadged under a different vendor?
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The core numbers are similar but not the exact same core as Global has nothing to do with Brunswick.
The way I think of it is the Moxie is similar to what Brunswick intended the ultimate inferno to be
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The core numbers are similar but not the exact same core as Global has nothing to do with Brunswick.
The way I think of it is the Moxie is similar to what Brunswick intended the ultimate inferno to be
Global has nothing to do with Brunswick but as I have heard before from various company reps, most cores are not patented thus they are fare game for anyone to use. This at least on appearance looks to be one of those instances.
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What the heck was that!
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Don't know but can we get back on topic? Looked like some Russian hack job!!!
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Spam Bots invaded the forum. No one is safe LMAO!
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The core numbers are similar but not the exact same core as Global has nothing to do with Brunswick.
The way I think of it is the Moxie is similar to what Brunswick intended the ultimate inferno to be
Global has nothing to do with Brunswick but as I have heard before from various company reps, most cores are not patented thus they are fare game for anyone to use. This at least on appearance looks to be one of those instances.
You keep using the word "use" as if old Brunswick cores are just being plopped into 900 Global balls!
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The core numbers are similar but not the exact same core as Global has nothing to do with Brunswick.
The way I think of it is the Moxie is similar to what Brunswick intended the ultimate inferno to be
Global has nothing to do with Brunswick but as I have heard before from various company reps, most cores are not patented thus they are fare game for anyone to use. This at least on appearance looks to be one of those instances.
You keep using the word "use" as if old Brunswick cores are just being plopped into 900 Global balls!
Well you're the man with the knowledge how about some clarification or at least answer my original question.
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The Moxie does not have the same core as the Ultimate Inferno
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http://www.bowlingball.com/images/product/large/1687_2_.jpg
http://lgcdn.bowlingshoes.com/media/catalog/product/cache/5/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/o/moxie_core.jpg
http://radicalbowling.com/uploads/_cache/uploads/balls/60-105511-93X_Torrid_Elite_Core_600x600_440_440.png
Just like the Radical Torrid id say its the same core. Just image depicted from different angles.
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The cores do seem similar but the numbers are different. Plus you can only make so many different shapes before they all start to look similar. The cover stock is gonna be the game changer for this ball though as the Ultimate Inferno wasn't meant to provide the type of length the Respect will.
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Density and filler is going to be used to change the numbers as needed. Its not like its a common shape such as the light bulb core its pretty distinct. Very interesting. Not all balls using that core had the same Rg Diff it was modified as needed.
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The core numbers are similar but not the exact same core as Global has nothing to do with Brunswick.
The way I think of it is the Moxie is similar to what Brunswick intended the ultimate inferno to be
Global has nothing to do with Brunswick but as I have heard before from various company reps, most cores are not patented thus they are fare game for anyone to use. This at least on appearance looks to be one of those instances.
You keep using the word "use" as if old Brunswick cores are just being plopped into 900 Global balls!
Well you're the man with the knowledge how about some clarification or at least answer my original question.
There are a number of things you have to consider when taking into consideration core designs with similar physical appearances and shapes. Firstly, the way we mill, mount, mold and fill the core is going to differ from other Manufacturers. Additionally, the positioning of the core within the ball (such as the relative degree of off set on the 4 nodes/protrusions on the design) is going to differ as well. All in all, you can't simply look at core shape and RG/Diff numbers from separate Manufacturers and assume that they will flare, etc with the same characteristics and attributes.
To keep things simple and answer your question, yes the shape is similar to an Inferno core, but you CAN NOT look at it as an Inferno core with a 900 Global shell.
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Well, I for one hated the Inferno line. The cover on the Ultimate just didn't match up for me. I do match up very well to Global's covers, and both the Moxie and the Respect look very responsive to friction, unlike the Infernos did for me. I was a bit leery of putting the Moxie in the bag, but with the addition of the Respect, I have a feeling tax time is going to be very fun for me... :)
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I note the similar appearance of core by eye.
I also note the videos I have seen of the Moxie and Respect....WOW!
I remember the Ultimate Inferno and the Inferno. They did not impress me but they were smooth! I know many other bowlers who used them to smooth Wet Dry back in that Inferno type of day.
We have a good bowler getting 10 pinned to death in a league I am in by using his old Inferno every week. (I thought he was trying to keep his average down.
Inferno, nice balls for then...I guess.
Moxie and Respect....big looking balls for today!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
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The core numbers are similar but not the exact same core as Global has nothing to do with Brunswick.
The way I think of it is the Moxie is similar to what Brunswick intended the ultimate inferno to be
Global has nothing to do with Brunswick but as I have heard before from various company reps, most cores are not patented thus they are fare game for anyone to use. This at least on appearance looks to be one of those instances.
You keep using the word "use" as if old Brunswick cores are just being plopped into 900 Global balls!
Well you're the man with the knowledge how about some clarification or at least answer my original question.
There are a number of things you have to consider when taking into consideration core designs with similar physical appearances and shapes. Firstly, the way we mill, mount, mold and fill the core is going to differ from other Manufacturers. Additionally, the positioning of the core within the ball (such as the relative degree of off set on the 4 nodes/protrusions on the design) is going to differ as well. All in all, you can't simply look at core shape and RG/Diff numbers from separate Manufacturers and assume that they will flare, etc with the same characteristics and attributes.
To keep things simple and answer your question, yes the shape is similar to an Inferno core, but you CAN NOT look at it as an Inferno core with a 900 Global shell.
Did AMF/Global develope this core from the ground up or was this brought in from somewhere else?
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All of our cores are developed in house by our engineer from scratch.
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Does anyone look at a lightbulb anymore and say "Oh, look, it's the Blue Nitro core." or "That core was awesome in the Beast!" or "I loved that in the Predator!"
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Every company has their own version of the light bulb shape, with varying degrees of size, taper, neck width at the bottom, etc. However, each "light bulb" shape is unique to that individual manufacturer.
edit: typo
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Every company has there only version of the light bulb shape, with varying degrees of size, taper, neck width at the bottom, etc. However, each "light bulb" shape is unique to that individual manufacturer.
Right. Same shape, different densities.
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Every company has there only version of the light bulb shape, with varying degrees of size, taper, neck width at the bottom, etc. However, each "light bulb" shape is unique to that individual manufacturer.
Just want to say thank you to you Thomas for being a face for 900 global on here and providing useful information. Love all the new stuff and I think 900 global might be best at considering bowler's opinions for their products
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What a different move these 900 balls have based on Video versus weakly viewing of the the older rounder looking Infernos on the lanes......Hard to believe the cores even look partly similar!
Great work!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Thanks TR for the answers. I agree everyone has their versions of the lightbulb cores. This is a bit of a more unique core in appearence and the simialrites to the Inferno cores is clsoer then I would imagine. Seen other smaller companies that are poured by Ebi or AMF/Global use older versions of there brands cores. Suchs as the Heat core, many of the pre Ebi Columbia cores ect but not anything this close on more recent cores by a non tied to manufacture.
Always enjoy having company reps on here. Hopefully stupid people do not ruin it for the rest of us.
AMF/Global has a lot of great looking stuff out right now.
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There are a number of things you have to consider when taking into consideration core designs with similar physical appearances and shapes. Firstly, the way we mill, mount, mold and fill the core is going to differ from other Manufacturers. Additionally, the positioning of the core within the ball (such as the relative degree of off set on the 4 nodes/protrusions on the design) is going to differ as well. All in all, you can't simply look at core shape and RG/Diff numbers from separate Manufacturers and assume that they will flare, etc with the same characteristics and attributes.
To keep things simple and answer your question, yes the shape is similar to an Inferno core, but you CAN NOT look at it as an Inferno core with a 900 Global shell.
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Thomas R, thanks for being so forth coming in your reply to my question. I really appreciate your insight on the topic at hand. The last thing one wants to do is to purchase a relabeled remake of a dud only to find out you bought the same dud again.
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My pleasure. Thanks for the support of our brand guys!
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There are a number of things you have to consider when taking into consideration core designs with similar physical appearances and shapes. Firstly, the way we mill, mount, mold and fill the core is going to differ from other Manufacturers. Additionally, the positioning of the core within the ball (such as the relative degree of off set on the 4 nodes/protrusions on the design) is going to differ as well. All in all, you can't simply look at core shape and RG/Diff numbers from separate Manufacturers and assume that they will flare, etc with the same characteristics and attributes.
To keep things simple and answer your question, yes the shape is similar to an Inferno core, but you CAN NOT look at it as an Inferno core with a 900 Global shell.
I would say appearance is more then similar but spot on. The specs can vary easily. Manufactures do this often with cores making one symmetric and using the same core offset for an asymmetric version and then adjust from there to increase or decrease the RG or Diff as needed to fit a balls intended shape all from the same core design.
To say this core was developed by A/G is a bit of a stretch. It may be modified to fit there demands but the shapes are the same.
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi250.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg252%2Fsoundcontrol%2Fcores.jpg&hash=226825162bd390a3ba08d65698f77badaee43e0e) (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/soundcontrol/media/cores.jpg.html)
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Manufactures do this often with cores making one symmetric and using the same core offset for an asymmetric version
I'm not quite sure where you heard this, but I've never heard of this before... Asymmetry is dictated by the shape of the core in relation to the X,Y and Z axis. Off setting a core would do nothing more than create grossly out of spec pin outs/top weights.
To say this core was developed by A/G is a bit of a stretch. It may be modified to fit there demands but the shapes are the same.
Again, there is no denying the shape of the core being similar. The word developed is accurate however, as our engineer had to design and build the core, from 3D modeling to complex density calculations. If inspiration or influence was pulled from somewhere else, than that's what it was, not a modification.
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They are the same shape but different. Makes sense and cant argue that.
I was wrong on the offset. When reading on the Classic Zone it was stretched to create asymmetry. The none stretched version also used was symmetric.
The i-block core used on the systems line had one flip block for asymmetric cores and dual flip blocks for symmetric. Had to go back and look on those as well.
"Start with the classic Danger Zone shape, then stretch it laterally to create asymmetry. Keep stretching until you create a highly significant built in Preferential Spin Axis (PSA). Add the PSA locator pin and you have the new Zone Classic core"
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Not trying to win any points, just trying to answer questions to the best of my ability!
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ThomasR I give you one point for you answer on the asym/sym core answer because I was wrong on what i remembered but the argument of differently engineered vs modified I think is subjective. I am only agreeing with the OP on the cores looking the same, no doubt changes can be made for desired reactions for the intended purpose of the ball being designed.
Blazing Inferno
The Blazing Inferno is a higher RG version of the original Inferno. Even though the inner core shape is the same as the
Inferno, 1.17 pounds of weight have been moved from the inner core to the outer core. This shift in weight results in a
significantly more cover heavy ball. The RG-min of the Blazing Inferno is 0.068†higher and the RG-diff is 0.017†lower than the original Inferno. This change in mass distribution allows the Blazing Inferno to be a better match-up when reduced traction through the heads and the mid-lane are desired.
http://www.bowlingballvault.com/companies/3-brunswick/540-blazing-inferno
I will however give you 1000 points and a pat on the back for being on here and answering questions. You deserve a raise or a straight jacket for that lol.
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Manufactures do this often with cores making one symmetric and using the same core offset for an asymmetric version
I'm not quite sure where you heard this, but I've never heard of this before... Asymmetry is dictated by the shape of the core in relation to the X,Y and Z axis. Off setting a core would do nothing more than create grossly out of spec pin outs/top weights.
To say this core was developed by A/G is a bit of a stretch. It may be modified to fit there demands but the shapes are the same.
Again, there is no denying the shape of the core being similar. The word developed is accurate however, as our engineer had to design and build the core, from 3D modeling to complex density calculations. If inspiration or influence was pulled from somewhere else, than that's what it was, not a modification.
In my line of work, we call this reverse engineering.