BallReviews
Equipment Boards => 900 Global => Topic started by: jasonp82 on December 03, 2016, 04:08:46 PM
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Hi everyone,
Like a couple of others, I am looking into the 900 Global Black Ops versus the Special Ops. I became an AMF guy in about 2006 after a bowler I thought highly of was throwing all AMF. I then bought the Velocity, and fell in love with it. I shot my high game of 299 with it. Unfortunately, it cracked, and I had to send it to AMF to get another one only to have that one crack as well. So I no longer have the ball as a memory.
I bought the Max Velocity and Terminal Velocity as well but none were quite like the original. I took a few years off bowling and started again during the summer. I hadn’t purchased a new ball in about ten years and was led to two Brunswick balls – the Fanatic and Fanatic BTU. I ended up buying both and I do like them but I’m still curious about the AMF/900 Global side and would like to have one of those as well.
Someone on the forums recommended the Black Ops given I liked the Velocity. I was now wondering about pin up versus pin down. I’ve googled this dozens of times. When I bought both the Fanatic and Fanatic BTU, the stronger of the two (regular Fanatic) was drilled pin up, and the BTU was pin down. I was basically told pin up makes the ball start grabbing onto the line quicker, which makes it hook faster. I was told with pin down, it doesn’t move a whole lot on the way down but on the backend, it moves and hits hard.
At first, I liked the BTU – my first game was a 279. Now I’m finding the regular Fanatic to be the better ball of a sudden. The Fanatic might curve a tad bit more than I’d like, as I’ve left a lot of 7-10 splits with it after NEVER leaving any before.
About the only thing I can go by as far as hook-ability is bowlingball.com’s perfect scale, which I hear mixed reviews about. It states the Black Ops is a 186.8 versus the Special Ops, which is 182.3. The Fanatic is 192.1, so based on their scale, either would hook less. I am a down and in, second arrow kind of guy. I do not put a lot of spin or revs on the ball and throw somewhere between 12.5 and 14.5 MPH on my first ball.
I am now stumped on the pin up versus pin down thing. When looking at my balls of the past, I have several of each. What's best for a down and in guy?
Jason
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I have two Absolute Nirvana pin up and pin down, the pin down is early and smoother off the spot and the pin up has more length and faster response to friction, both are strong but they will give you different looks at the breakpoint, I normally pull out my pin down when lanes are tight when pin up starts leaving corners
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Right On! +1
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I got a guy who always has a BREAK line core In the bag. He feels pin down is plenty good and pin up is too flippy off the spot. Needless to say where ever he is bowling it seems the pin down gets more play.
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Ok,
OG Break and Black Eagle (and probably the Spec Ops) were 55*5*65 (pin below bridge) and I usually liked the surface at 4k at minimum, 1k at max. I've also had a War Eagle and S75, both 65*4.5*35, extra hole on pap for the War Eagle. The WE worked well if I kept the breakpoint in front of me, and the s75 was great at opening up my angles. I found that I hate extra holes on my Break equipment. For me, it stands up early and doesn't do as much as I would like. If I am looking for a slower motion off the spot, I'd rather adjust surface.
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I've always thought about doing that to see what the difference was but putting out the money for the double ball is always what keeps me from doing it. Haha. So it sounds like I may have been told the opposite of what you are saying. I guess there really isn't a "better" choice for a down and in person?
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I have two Absolute Nirvana pin up and pin down, the pin down is early and smoother off the spot and the pin up has more length and faster response to friction, both are strong but they will give you different looks at the breakpoint
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There is definitely a difference between pin up and pin down drilling. Each person is partial to one or the other. Personally I'm a pin down person usually 4.5 -5 inches from pap. All the Eagles, Breaks and Ops are great IMO. Good luck with your search.
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I actually drill a pin up and a pin down ball of every ball I drill...same surface on each ball. On the pin up, cg is always in the palm so there is no extra hole. On the pin down, I swing the cg into the thumb quadrant and add an extra hole 6 inches from the pin through the cg in the thumb quadrant to help move the bowtie down (I track high).
I see plenty of difference between the 2 drills especially on normal THS. Further, because of the amount of friction in my area on THS at every bowling center, I usually leave my pin down stuff at home and only take my pin ups. Too much friction pushed me too deep too early and then has a tendency to trap me. Too deep and I start pinging corners...move back into the track and the ball burns and hits like a wet pancake. The pin up stuff allows me to stay in the track longer and the ever so little difference in stored energy compared to the pin down ball helps me trip some corners that I would not with the pin down...
I also normally only drill symmetric cored bowling balls as an FYI
Your results will vary based on your speed, style, etc. If you have higher speed with little tilt, the pin down may be your friend even on THS with an extra hole helping to reshape the core and give you some extra angle that you would not have without an extra hole.
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The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.
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The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.
I simply disagree with this and will until the day I die. I have pin down balls (under bridge) that flare around the whole ball, conversely, I have pin up balls, over bridge, that flare like non-dynamic urethane.
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The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.
I simply disagree with this and will until the day I die. I have pin down balls (under bridge) that flare around the whole ball, conversely, I have pin up balls, over bridge, that flare like non-dynamic urethane.
What's your PAP?
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4 1/2 straight across.
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Pin to pap will always dictate flare, VAL angle dictates second phase response. I have had multiple long pin to pap balls drilled "pin down" that are way longer than Short pin to pap balls drilled "pin up".
Pin to pap distance and surface will make much more difference than VAL angle
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I have drilled several of these.. from the purple eagles, to black eagles, to now the spec ops. For me, all have been in the 4.5 to 5.5 pin to PAP distances. At 4.5", flare rings cover nearly the entire ball, as I go further away towards 5.5", flare decreases. My PAP is 5 3/8" over, so this puts the pin somewhere between the ring and the bridge. It seems pin up goes really long for me (have only used this with higher drill angles - keeping me near thumb area) - giving this layout a somewhat limited use on fresh league shot.
My favorite layout for this ball has been pin under ring with a small drill angle (about a 40X4.5X60). This keeps my angles closed and smooths out the backend...Worked well on my fresh league shots.
Overall, this a great ball and rolls really well once you find the correct lane condition match up.
Good luck!
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I agree. The pin downs I've drilled I've liked much more than the pin ups.
Now I need to order another Black Ops and a Special Ops.
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Pin down balls for me always seem to stand up quicker. For slicker patterns or lanes with less friction, pin downs seem to get to the pocket better and carry out corners better....with my drill I use, maybe it is the extra hole causing this and not per se the pin position because I drill everything the same, so there is always an extra hole in the thumb quadrant...it is not just pin down or pin under on the centerline with a 1 inch pin leaving the cg in the center of the palm.
However, when the pattern starts to break down, swinging this drill for me is not the best option, or when there is more friction up front, the pin up ball retains energy longer and can ping out the corners....
There are so many variables from person to person before adding the ball into the equation that anything is possible.
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The drilling preference will be what you choose. The Pin up will flare more giving you an earlier and quicker response to the friction. Better suited for opening up the lane and covering boards. Pin down lowers the differential and will flare less cause the movement downlane to be slower, longer and smoother. Contrary to popular belief, Pin Down DOES NOT HOOK EARLIER!!!! I would think buy 2 of them. They're cheap enough and versatile enough for you to do so. The only problem I've seen with the 900 Globals is their covers are so thin they don't tend to last long or they crack. Cracking has a bunch of other factors that have to come into play but the oil absorption is so quick it'll leave you baking them frequently with benchmark type use.
I simply disagree with this and will until the day I die. I have pin down balls (under bridge) that flare around the whole ball, conversely, I have pin up balls, over bridge, that flare like non-dynamic urethane.
You cant disagree with science. Its been proven through the track flare study, Mo Pinel, and Ive tested it many times in drilling multiples of the same ball. You can also use a determinator. The spin times on the pin down will be slower. I had a Roto-Grip Cell with a big VAL angle and pin down and it flared around the entire ball. Some balls are just like that. However a pin down compared to a pin up with the pin in the same pin to PAP range will flare less.
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Have an Inception and Black Ops with both being pin up. Inception is good for a game before before the Black Ops comes out of the bag. Black Ops in the smoothest rolling ball I have ever owned. It has a good 200 games on it still going strong. Used at last years USBC Open and it really hits hard coming off the spot. I will get another very soon.
Polished solids have always worked better for me than pearls so I get them both polished every 15 games or so.
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Pin down balls for me always seem to stand up quicker. For slicker patterns or lanes with less friction, pin downs seem to get to the pocket better and carry out corners better....with my drill I use, maybe it is the extra hole causing this and not per se the pin position because I drill everything the same, so there is always an extra hole in the thumb quadrant...it is not just pin down or pin under on the centerline with a 1 inch pin leaving the cg in the center of the palm.
However, when the pattern starts to break down, swinging this drill for me is not the best option, or when there is more friction up front, the pin up ball retains energy longer and can ping out the corners....
There are so many variables from person to person before adding the ball into the equation that anything is possible.
I find this to be true for me. I have a GB2 and Arson HF drilled like this and the reaction is length/flip no matter what surface. a very strong reaction down lane. now I also have a Global Grip it with almost the same layout but the pin is 1 inch farther from pap that is all midlane and a very smooth almost no backend so I can see how a little difference in layout can give a big difference in reaction. now I never tried a pin down asymmetric as pin up works good for me.
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Thanks to everyone for the responses. As I mentioned, I've done a lot of digging myself and I'm thinking pin up is what is typically recommended for a "bowler like me" - a second arrow, down and in guy. Particularly given the outside is dry at the alley I bowl most. From what I understand, pin down would make the ball grab earlier, which I wouldn't want given it's going to be fairly dry where I'm putting the ball down. I've had success (and failures) with both pin up and down as it turns out (after looking at some of my old balls).
I am not certain how much either would impact a bowler with my kind of shot at the alley I bowl at. If I sound wrong in any of these thoughts, let me know!! :)
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The lane condition Jason just described is identical to what I bowl on. The old house shot Top Hat pattern. I found out that a pin up ball goes longer and hits hard when coming off the spot. If I miss right though both the Inception and Black Ops will recover but I tend to leave flat tens as the ball (s) lost their energy. Straight up 10 with a strong flip seems to correct the flat ten issue for me.
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I am glad to hear I am not the only one who bowls at a house like that! I've gone to two other alleys in the last couple weeks and they actually completely oil their lanes. It's quite a difference! I can pick up a ten pin without a plastic ball! :)