Author Topic: CREATURE layout help (Read 1824 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** April 01, 2009, 09:33:36 AM »

Got my creature with a 1.5 inch pin. I'm thinking about doing a pin at center grip with no weight hole..(or very small if needed to make it legal) and leaving me the option to put in a larger weight hole to increase the dynamics and backend of the ball if needed
or thinking about a 3 3/8 leverage drill with the pin on or just above the midline and cg toward centergrip.. about the same location as the first option..

What would be the difference in both of these balls. Would the 3 3/8 be smoother.. but how strong would it be at leverage.

my center grip pin to pap is 5 1/2 inches to pap.

PS. even though my PAP is 5 1/2 over and 3/8 up I don't have a problem with my track hitting my finger holes
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 4/1/2009 5:37 PM

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2009, 06:26:46 PM »

Remember that the Creature only has an RG differential of .032". YOu're not going to increase the differential by very much and movements of the pin are not going to make the same difference as if the RG diff were in the .050" range. They'll make a difference, but not a big one.

You'll get larger difference in the Rg rating by moving it up or down than you will in the differential.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2009, 06:32:18 PM »

so i may as well go center gripand if i add the weighthole it would be more like putting the pin closer to leverage
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

txnohandsam · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2009, 06:55:08 PM »

I wanted mine for a nice control piece later in the night. So I placed pin down on grip line with CG kicked to my track. Not much need for this ball atm for me, but I wanted something for 2nd shift or later in the day during tournaments. I have rolled this on normal oil and it is very smooth just what I was looking for. BTW I also had a 1.5 pin.

Sam

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2009, 07:47:52 PM »

quote:
so i may as well go center gripand if i add the weighthole it would be more like putting the pin closer to leverage
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

(I realize I sound as if I am trying to make things hard on you. I am not. I'm trying to be practical. Honestly!)

JustRico, the guy after whom the drilling is named, suggests that you start with a 2-3" pin-CG, if you want to drill a Rico.

In general, since the weight hole adds some flare, with a pin in the center, it is similar to move the pin closer because the ball flares earlier and more.
BUT since the CReature is polished, the additional flare is usually postponed until nearer the breakpoint, adding some backend.

If you're contemplating doing this, you would have been better off using a stronger ball to start with.

That brings us to - what was your original intent in using this ball?
Both of those drillings try to make the ball stronger than it is. That core is ... let's say, less useful in doing that sort of thing. A Villain, with a 2-3" pin, might have been a better starting point. The Creature's a ball meant to add control to a medium oil pattern that could be problematical.
It IS a control ball, basically.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 4/1/2009 8:05 PM

J_w73 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2009, 08:14:52 PM »

my original intent was for a super smooth super arcing ball for medium lanes...something right below my widow pearl in terms of handling oil. anyway..just got the thing drilled up.. pin is on grip line 3/8 above my centergrip with the cg at 45...rico like without the weighthole..ended up with 3/4 oz pos weight....now for what the ball did.. tested the lanes with my anger and my odyssey..i would say the wher medium heavy as both balls didnt want to move like i am used to them move. i will say that these are wood lanes at a place i never bowl at. first shot with my creature piped up 7...ball glided down the lane with ease..then bam super snap through the nose...not what i wanted to see..ball seemed to tame down a bit after 2/3 of a game or so... backend was smoother but still bigger than i wanted..i took a grey scotchbrite to it to take the shine off of it..this seemed to tame the backend quite a bit... what do you thhink...if this ball has too much backend what are my options..surface ..weighthole?
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2009, 08:43:57 PM »

First option is always a smoothing out of the surface. The grey pad was a good first approximation. Not sure how much you "hit" it, but you must test it at another place or at the same place again to make sure of the reaction. Maybe the this place had too much dry backend. That will make balls overreact.

If your PAP is 5+ over, placing the pin in the middle probably made it flare too late and too much.

Then, if there's still too much backend, use the same grey pad and use it over a larger portion of the ball, still lightly. Test each change!!!! You want to clear the heads and still have enough left to carry. Careful balancing act.

You can always adjust the surface back and forth, even 4000 Abralon pad over entire ball, if necessary.

Holes are kind of permanent.
Weight hole, 6 3/4" over from center of grip thru CG should add some flare if it's big enough to affect the core. Use 7/8" -1" wide hole, 2 1/2" or more deep, if possible. Don't worry about negative side weight.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2009, 09:28:33 PM »

thanks charlest..im definatly gonna try it at different houses before i do too much to it...especially sythetic lanes since that is what i bowl on 99% of the time. i didnt use a spinner with the pad..just rested the ball on the pad in my hand and spun it on the pad until i went over the ball 4 or 5 times. maybe dulling it down and morew agressive will smooth it out enoughor like you said maybe 4000 will reduce the friction enough to smooth it out. i just need to remember to evaluate it for the condition it is intended..i.think there was a bit too much oil for it up front..my neptune didnt want to jump though and it usually will with any oil up front and a decent backend
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2009, 09:55:26 PM »

I think you have the general idea.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2009, 02:03:44 AM »

quote:
I think you have the general idea.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

used my ball again on synthetics that tend to be oilier than I am used to.. ended up bowling 11 games.. to start out I definately had to bump my creature off the dry to get it back to the pocket.. It was not jumpy but pretty smooth... looking good so far..
After the first game I didn't use it much.. I was using my heavier oil balls in the oil at around the 10 board at the break.. by game 9 and 10 I went back to my creature and was able to pump it staight up 10 with some decent hand and it would make a nice smooth move to the pocket.
I would say it fits right where I want in relation to my widow pearl with the pearl more snappy on the backend..Game 11 I wanted to see how it compared to my Neptune so I used that .. the neptune was definately hooking less, about 3 boards or so..but still not wanting to really make a move to the pocket..
so i think I made a good choice and the ball will work perfectly for what I need. I see it as a ball that can bail me out when nothing else is working and when I want to Keep It Simple Stupid...
Thanks again Charlest and everyone else for their help.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:12:42 AM »

Congrats, j_W!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:04:28 AM »

Well I guess I officially like the ball now.. ended up shooting 299 with it tonight. I usually use my heavier oil stuff and play in the oil out to 10 at the break. This is a THS with a pretty decent wall outside 7 or so. With the creature I was able to play way right in the dry up 7 out to about 5 or 4. The ball was perfect. It would start its move early and I would think it was going to go high but it was just so smooth and subtle and would hit flush and crush the pocket.
I'm alittle disappointed in myself on the last shot in that I got a little inside, a little fast, and not enough hand .. got to the pocket but left a 10 pin..
Can't wait to see what I can do with it next week.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:16:54 AM »

Excellent bowling! Congratulations!!
Glad it worked out for you.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Author Topic: CREATURE layout help (Read 1824 times)

J_w73

CREATURE layout help

charlest

Re: CREATURE layout help

J_w73

Re: CREATURE layout help

txnohandsam

Re: CREATURE layout help

charlest

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J_w73

Re: CREATURE layout help

charlest

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J_w73

Re: CREATURE layout help

charlest

Re: CREATURE layout help

J_w73

Re: CREATURE layout help

charlest

Re: CREATURE layout help

J_w73

Re: CREATURE layout help

charlest

Re: CREATURE layout help