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Author Topic: White Hot vs. Honey?  (Read 3025 times)

bowl868

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White Hot vs. Honey?
« on: January 25, 2019, 09:17:23 AM »
I love my Honey Badger 70x6x35, waayyyyy more versatile than I thought.  I'm planning on getting a White Hot and a Claw to fit around it.

Question:  Has there been enough intel to answer this... If I drill a White Hot and Honey Badger the same with same cover prep, what is the difference and is it enough difference to have both?

Thanks!

 

Impending Doom

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 09:11:20 AM »
Pin down has been condition specific for me... but I like the 5x65 suggestion, I might go with a smaller val angle (25-30deg) to complement the sharper nature of the ball.  The HB or Claw to start depending on oil volume, White Hot to move left with and get around the corner (as much as my release lets me lol).  Seems logical.  I was thinking a 4-4.5" pin for the Claw.  What do you think?  (and thanks.. I know you are 900 Global guy, but I really appreciate your knowledgable posts)

I like the stronger pin on the Claw. I've put a couple of people in a Claw 45*4.5*65 and they just kill with it. Strong, smooth, but not pukey downlane.

Also, thank you for the compliment. As a (OMG he's going to say it) staffer, it's my job, but it's also my pleasure. I love putting people in the best equipment in the business and that's not my contract talking.

I have both and noticed the WHB to be weaker than the gold, but was thinking it was supposed to be stronger til I saw a video earlier stating it would be weaker. It is in fact a little too weak for my house and I am debating on putting a little surface on it. My PSO suggested 2000, but what might you suggest? It tends to skid and never really pick up, and I'm not seeing any flare either.

Hit it with the 2000 and gague reaction. As far as the flare, how is it drilled? The Lacrate core is less dynamic than the Graphnel core
I'll have to look when I get home, I know the pin is pretty high up, about middle of my bridge. I wanted length out of it to get through some of the dry but it keeps on skidding.  I'm a 2 fingered one handed bowler. I think the tour logo or one of the others ends up facing back at me and never moves from that axis.

Well, changing the surface won't change the flare but it will change he how it reads the lane, so it will transition from skid to hook earlier, thus not making it look like it's going 60 feet.

I know, I just thought it was odd there was zero flare. Not sure on how much the ball would normally see though either. I had to order some pads, trying the CTD ones in 1/2/5k polish or whatever it was called to play with some surfaces on other balls too.

How is your Honey Badger laid out?

2 fingered, no thumb on my setup

Plug and redrill it. The center of the bridge (which is basically your center of grip) should be weighted after drilling, but that pin is WAY too high. I'm betting that the pin is actually less than 10 degrees to your Val, and might be past your Val (pap coordinates would verify this), which would make the ball roll poorly. Bring that pin much closer to your fingers (don't worry, it will still get down the lane), and make the pin position stronger. Trust me.
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2handedrook12

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 11:27:53 AM »
Pin down has been condition specific for me... but I like the 5x65 suggestion, I might go with a smaller val angle (25-30deg) to complement the sharper nature of the ball.  The HB or Claw to start depending on oil volume, White Hot to move left with and get around the corner (as much as my release lets me lol).  Seems logical.  I was thinking a 4-4.5" pin for the Claw.  What do you think?  (and thanks.. I know you are 900 Global guy, but I really appreciate your knowledgable posts)

I like the stronger pin on the Claw. I've put a couple of people in a Claw 45*4.5*65 and they just kill with it. Strong, smooth, but not pukey downlane.

Also, thank you for the compliment. As a (OMG he's going to say it) staffer, it's my job, but it's also my pleasure. I love putting people in the best equipment in the business and that's not my contract talking.

I have both and noticed the WHB to be weaker than the gold, but was thinking it was supposed to be stronger til I saw a video earlier stating it would be weaker. It is in fact a little too weak for my house and I am debating on putting a little surface on it. My PSO suggested 2000, but what might you suggest? It tends to skid and never really pick up, and I'm not seeing any flare either.

Hit it with the 2000 and gague reaction. As far as the flare, how is it drilled? The Lacrate core is less dynamic than the Graphnel core
I'll have to look when I get home, I know the pin is pretty high up, about middle of my bridge. I wanted length out of it to get through some of the dry but it keeps on skidding.  I'm a 2 fingered one handed bowler. I think the tour logo or one of the others ends up facing back at me and never moves from that axis.

Well, changing the surface won't change the flare but it will change he how it reads the lane, so it will transition from skid to hook earlier, thus not making it look like it's going 60 feet.

I know, I just thought it was odd there was zero flare. Not sure on how much the ball would normally see though either. I had to order some pads, trying the CTD ones in 1/2/5k polish or whatever it was called to play with some surfaces on other balls too.

How is your Honey Badger laid out?

2 fingered, no thumb on my setup

Plug and redrill it. The center of the bridge (which is basically your center of grip) should be weighted after drilling, but that pin is WAY too high. I'm betting that the pin is actually less than 10 degrees to your Val, and might be past your Val (pap coordinates would verify this), which would make the ball roll poorly. Bring that pin much closer to your fingers (don't worry, it will still get down the lane), and make the pin position stronger. Trust me.
Usually for no thumb bowlers, this would probably be closer to normal pin up. I'm curious what other balls the OP has used the layout on.
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Impending Doom

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 02:20:15 PM »
Pin down has been condition specific for me... but I like the 5x65 suggestion, I might go with a smaller val angle (25-30deg) to complement the sharper nature of the ball.  The HB or Claw to start depending on oil volume, White Hot to move left with and get around the corner (as much as my release lets me lol).  Seems logical.  I was thinking a 4-4.5" pin for the Claw.  What do you think?  (and thanks.. I know you are 900 Global guy, but I really appreciate your knowledgable posts)

I like the stronger pin on the Claw. I've put a couple of people in a Claw 45*4.5*65 and they just kill with it. Strong, smooth, but not pukey downlane.

Also, thank you for the compliment. As a (OMG he's going to say it) staffer, it's my job, but it's also my pleasure. I love putting people in the best equipment in the business and that's not my contract talking.

I have both and noticed the WHB to be weaker than the gold, but was thinking it was supposed to be stronger til I saw a video earlier stating it would be weaker. It is in fact a little too weak for my house and I am debating on putting a little surface on it. My PSO suggested 2000, but what might you suggest? It tends to skid and never really pick up, and I'm not seeing any flare either.

Hit it with the 2000 and gague reaction. As far as the flare, how is it drilled? The Lacrate core is less dynamic than the Graphnel core
I'll have to look when I get home, I know the pin is pretty high up, about middle of my bridge. I wanted length out of it to get through some of the dry but it keeps on skidding.  I'm a 2 fingered one handed bowler. I think the tour logo or one of the others ends up facing back at me and never moves from that axis.

Well, changing the surface won't change the flare but it will change he how it reads the lane, so it will transition from skid to hook earlier, thus not making it look like it's going 60 feet.

I know, I just thought it was odd there was zero flare. Not sure on how much the ball would normally see though either. I had to order some pads, trying the CTD ones in 1/2/5k polish or whatever it was called to play with some surfaces on other balls too.

How is your Honey Badger laid out?

2 fingered, no thumb on my setup

Plug and redrill it. The center of the bridge (which is basically your center of grip) should be weighted after drilling, but that pin is WAY too high. I'm betting that the pin is actually less than 10 degrees to your Val, and might be past your Val (pap coordinates would verify this), which would make the ball roll poorly. Bring that pin much closer to your fingers (don't worry, it will still get down the lane), and make the pin position stronger. Trust me.
Usually for no thumb bowlers, this would probably be closer to normal pin up. I'm curious what other balls the OP has used the layout on.

If I measured this person's pap, I bet you dollars to donuts the Val angle is going to be out of spec.
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calebg1981

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 08:42:31 PM »
The other guy in the pro shop drilled my HB gold not as far up as that and it rolls better. I told them I wanted the ball to get down the lane a little further and have the big back end direction change and that is what the actual PSO came up with.

Impending Doom

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2019, 12:04:45 AM »
The other guy in the pro shop drilled my HB gold not as far up as that and it rolls better. I told them I wanted the ball to get down the lane a little further and have the big back end direction change and that is what the actual PSO came up with.

Have then lay it out the same way. Surface is going to get it down the lane, not putting the pin further up.
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calebg1981

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2019, 11:38:28 AM »
The other guy in the pro shop drilled my HB gold not as far up as that and it rolls better. I told them I wanted the ball to get down the lane a little further and have the big back end direction change and that is what the actual PSO came up with.

Have then lay it out the same way. Surface is going to get it down the lane, not putting the pin further up.

Right on, thank you

CoorZero

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2019, 09:34:56 PM »
So here's my situation. I'm looking for a ball that I can really open up the lane with on medium(ish) oil. One of the houses I bowl at has either really messed up the oil pattern this year or, more likely, the lane surface is finally starting to show it's age any anything more direct from 12 on out is playing terrible for everybody using their right hand. Those that are scoring are doing so from inside out, and I mean inside. Or the left side.

Anyways, I've pretty much narrowed down my choices to the Honey Badger or White Hot Badger. The Hy-Road X is nice but from what I've seen it's better with surface. I don't want surface. Not seeing much else out there with this profile. I used to have an Unhinged that filled this role nicely but the reaction mellowed out too much and it now sits nicely as a dry-lanes option for a teammate that plays pretty direct.

These two balls have the core numbers and shape I'm looking for while still sporting a coverstock that's strong enough to handle the oil it's going through. Simply put, which one is better going left to right? We don't see much 900 Global in the area so I don't have any first-person experience to go off of. My brain says the symmetric White Hot should be the better choice, but my eyes say the videos of the asymmetric Honey are closer to what I'm looking for.

Price isn't a big deal, especially if either of these balls does what I hope it will. It'll pay for itself in one week. Can anybody help me out?

Impending Doom

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2019, 10:36:57 PM »
So here's my situation. I'm looking for a ball that I can really open up the lane with on medium(ish) oil. One of the houses I bowl at has either really messed up the oil pattern this year or, more likely, the lane surface is finally starting to show it's age any anything more direct from 12 on out is playing terrible for everybody using their right hand. Those that are scoring are doing so from inside out, and I mean inside. Or the left side.

Anyways, I've pretty much narrowed down my choices to the Honey Badger or White Hot Badger. The Hy-Road X is nice but from what I've seen it's better with surface. I don't want surface. Not seeing much else out there with this profile. I used to have an Unhinged that filled this role nicely but the reaction mellowed out too much and it now sits nicely as a dry-lanes option for a teammate that plays pretty direct.

These two balls have the core numbers and shape I'm looking for while still sporting a coverstock that's strong enough to handle the oil it's going through. Simply put, which one is better going left to right? We don't see much 900 Global in the area so I don't have any first-person experience to go off of. My brain says the symmetric White Hot should be the better choice, but my eyes say the videos of the asymmetric Honey are closer to what I'm looking for.

Price isn't a big deal, especially if either of these balls does what I hope it will. It'll pay for itself in one week. Can anybody help me out?

Same cover, so let's take that out of the equation. I like the motion of the White Hot, but love the motion of the Honey. Go Honey.
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CoorZero

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2019, 11:08:44 PM »

Same cover, so let's take that out of the equation. I like the motion of the White Hot, but love the motion of the Honey. Go Honey.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Wasn't sure if the videos represented the "real" motion though.

One last thing - can we pretty much disregard the asymmetry of the Grapnel core? I know the general rule of thumb is asymmetric cores stand up more off the spot thus making symmetric more ideal for flip down the lane. Doesn't look like the Honey has that problem though. Just want to make sure this ball gets around the corner from deep as well as I think it does.

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2019, 11:26:48 PM »
Can't go wrong with a Honey Badger for skid flip on medium volume or less imo.  High RG means it won't stand up early.  Love mine and its the one must have 900 ball imo.  Surprised haven't seen more as that is one of the balls I see most both in open bowling and league.  Or maybe just more noticeable due to color.  Even saw a guy throw a 299 with it about a month ago just practicing.   
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 11:35:28 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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Impending Doom

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2019, 11:51:22 PM »

Same cover, so let's take that out of the equation. I like the motion of the White Hot, but love the motion of the Honey. Go Honey.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Wasn't sure if the videos represented the "real" motion though.

One last thing - can we pretty much disregard the asymmetry of the Grapnel core? I know the general rule of thumb is asymmetric cores stand up more off the spot thus making symmetric more ideal for flip down the lane. Doesn't look like the Honey has that problem though. Just want to make sure this ball gets around the corner from deep as well as I think it does.

At .008, I disregard it as one, but it's a tall core that rolls really well, instead of the White Hot core which is more elliptical, so it's a bit smoother. Honey has no quit in it.
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Freddy

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 05:27:54 AM »
IMO, the Honey Badger is one of the best balls Global makes!!

bowl868

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2019, 09:54:41 AM »
I am getting a White Hot in the future, so I can't compare yet ... but the Honey has a unique roll to it (for me a stroker/tweener, high track).  It's a consistent hard arc/flip and carries better than anything in my bag.  It's the first ball out of my bag on anything medium right now.

westtex

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2019, 03:16:53 PM »
Pin down has been condition specific for me... but I like the 5x65 suggestion, I might go with a smaller val angle (25-30deg) to complement the sharper nature of the ball.  The HB or Claw to start depending on oil volume, White Hot to move left with and get around the corner (as much as my release lets me lol).  Seems logical.  I was thinking a 4-4.5" pin for the Claw.  What do you think?  (and thanks.. I know you are 900 Global guy, but I really appreciate your knowledgable posts)

I like the stronger pin on the Claw. I've put a couple of people in a Claw 45*4.5*65 and they just kill with it. Strong, smooth, but not pukey downlane.

Also, thank you for the compliment. As a (OMG he's going to say it) staffer, it's my job, but it's also my pleasure. I love putting people in the best equipment in the business and that's not my contract talking.

Doom with him being a high tracker player, aren't Pin down balls kinda a non starter b/c of thumb hole flaring usually? Being high track myself I have a hard enough time keeping it off the thumb on Pin ups.

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Impending Doom

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Re: White Hot vs. Honey?
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2019, 03:33:51 PM »
Pin down has been condition specific for me... but I like the 5x65 suggestion, I might go with a smaller val angle (25-30deg) to complement the sharper nature of the ball.  The HB or Claw to start depending on oil volume, White Hot to move left with and get around the corner (as much as my release lets me lol).  Seems logical.  I was thinking a 4-4.5" pin for the Claw.  What do you think?  (and thanks.. I know you are 900 Global guy, but I really appreciate your knowledgable posts)

I like the stronger pin on the Claw. I've put a couple of people in a Claw 45*4.5*65 and they just kill with it. Strong, smooth, but not pukey downlane.

Also, thank you for the compliment. As a (OMG he's going to say it) staffer, it's my job, but it's also my pleasure. I love putting people in the best equipment in the business and that's not my contract talking.

Doom with him being a high tracker player, aren't Pin down balls kinda a non starter b/c of thumb hole flaring usually? Being high track myself I have a hard enough time keeping it off the thumb on Pin ups.



The stronger pin should keep it off the thumb and pull the track down , but as always, check with a knowledgeable PSO.
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