Author Topic: Spin time on the Velocity series cores? (Read 3386 times)

J_Mac · « **on:** June 15, 2005, 01:01:39 PM »

Subject pretty much says it all, how fast do these balls spin up on the DeTerminator?
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American beer is like making love in a canoe. It's f*cking close to water. - Monty Python

If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs. - David Daye

J_Mac · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2005, 08:31:31 AM »

ttt
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American beer is like making love in a canoe. It's f*cking close to water. - Monty Python

If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs. - David Daye

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2005, 10:58:46 PM »

I spun an original Velocity and a Max Velocity, after like 15-20 sec's I concluded what was already known, it had a very non-essential mass bias strength, so I'm sure its spin time is on par with other symmetrical core shapes.

Waldorf Salad · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:02:53 PM »

what is this 'determinator'? And what does it have to do with how good a ball is? or rather how it reacts?

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:11:27 PM »

The deTerminator is a device that allows a ball to "spin" freely, there by causing it to migrate to a certain position after a certain amount of time. It is used to find the "mass bias" of asymmetrical weight blocks, especially those that contain strong mass bias ratings. The amount of time it takes a ball to "spin" to this position and stabilize will tell you the over-all mass bias strength. Balls that spin up and stabilize faster have strong mass bias characteristics, while those that tend to lope longer have weaker or even no mass bias strength at all. In theory, the stronger a cores mass bias strength, the stronger its potential is at the point of energy release, or the transition from skid to hook. Stronger mass biased balls tend to read the midlanes harder and backends smoother than weaker or symmetrical counter-parts, obviously surface changes and layouts can alter this. Hope this jumble of crap makes. sense.

Traumatize · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2005, 11:12:16 PM »

The Determinator is a device that accurately finds the mass bias of a bowling ball. The spin time refers to the time it takes the ball to spin up on its mass bias. The quicker the spin time, the quicker the ball revs up down the lane. The higher the spin time, the longer it takes to rev up down the lane. It means nothing on how good or bad a bowling ball is, it just finds the mass bias, and where on the lane it will rev up.
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charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2005, 01:40:55 AM »

quote:
I spun an original Velocity and a Max Velocity, after like 15-20 sec's I concluded what was already known, it had a very non-essential mass bias strength, so I'm sure its spin time is on par with other symmetrical core shapes.

what was the surface of the ball when you spun it?

To what grit do put or bring all the balls that you spin?
Is it the same for all balls?
If not, shouldn't it be to properly compare apples to apples?
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
CharlesT

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2005, 10:24:07 AM »

The balls were in their box finish. I've never been told by anyone to sand every ball to 600 or polish every ball before spinning them. I use it to more-or-less check the marked mass biases for their accuracy, not determine spin times to the second. So, to answer your question, no, I dont think I'm comparing apples to oranges for what I'm doing, and I'm actually not sure of the difference in spin times moving from a dull ball to a shiny ball.

Edit: Also, the cores shape of the Velocity series is asymmetric, but they have relatively NO mass bias differential, which is the reason I assume they took that long to stabilize. In short, treat them like a symmetrical core.

Edited on 6/24/2005 10:21 AM

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2005, 03:53:21 PM »

Wells,

I brought up the subject because a couple of people in other forums seem to be comparing balls' spin times. As far as I know spin times cannot be compared unless all factors are comparable. One of those is the ball's surface. If you're just checking to see how if the spin time is low enough to "have" a significant MB, then maybe it doesn't matter, BUT if the ball comes highly polished then the cover's surface will matter. I'd suggest a 2000 grit standard which is what Pinel used in his Determinator article in BTM a couple or three years ago.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
CharlesT

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2005, 10:03:25 PM »

Thats cool, but seriously charlest, from polish to 2000 grit sandpaper to 1000 grit sandpaper, how much of a time difference do you honestly think that makes? I can't imagine it being more than milliseconds to a second at most. The spinning wheels are rubber, and the covers are high friction polished as well as sanded. I could see if a ball was oil soaked and bleeding to the cover, then the decreased friction I would think would make a large enough difference to err on a spin time. Also, most of the manufacturers using STRONG mass biased differential weight blocks are now (if not already) posting the spin times with the spec sheets. I didnt mean to come off with an attitude, I just didnt feel like your first post had much relevence for the very large majority of people here, if not all of them, and I think you'll agree with me that senseless posts are all too often found here on the forums. Having seen your posts for awhile, I dont think you would intentionally post something just to be posting, so please know theres no hard feelings, and feel free to find out how much of a difference those surface changes have on spin times and post here, I'll do the same.

Edited on 6/24/2005 10:04 PM

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2005, 04:45:28 AM »

No hard feelings, at all!

I thought it was kind of a technical aspect that, maybe, some people weren't aware of. I am not sure of the exact significance of whether you roll it with polish or some sanded grit, but in actual bowling it can be significant. I have never seen a De-terminator. Never having used one, I am not sure whether we can actually mentally map spin times to ball reaction, as we do core specs. It may be more relevant because it includes cover and core in the result, whereas core specs do not include the cover.

Yes, it may not have been the most relevant factor in your post, but I thought at some point in time, it should be brought up and into the overall picture. This seemed as good a time as any. DIdn't mean to hijack the topic, but did think it was relevant.

The MB on these balls is not huge, kind of in the neighborhood of the Nighthawk/Havoc, some newer Roto-Grip balls and the older Labyrinth - just enough to barely involve the idea of asymmetrics.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
CharlesT

Author Topic: Spin time on the Velocity series cores? (Read 3386 times)

J_Mac

Spin time on the Velocity series cores?

J_Mac

Re: Spin time on the Velocity series cores?

BowlersAidProShop-Wells

Re: Spin time on the Velocity series cores?

Waldorf Salad

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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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Traumatize

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charlest

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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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charlest

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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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charlest

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